Factions declaring war because someone is 'too strong'. Possible to remove it?

I've recently become well acquainted with the phenomena in Warband that is random factions, no matter how small, weak or far away they are, declaring war on gigantic factions because they're 'too large'.

Mostly all this does is produce a steamroller effect, where the idiotic factions get destroyed. There was a huge Mierce in my last game, and a bunch've one-city Welsh nations declared war on it, only to get crushed.

I'd go so far as to say, it is currently ruining the game for me.

You are right, a strategical "balancing" in Brytenwalda is nearly non-existent * ... Mierce and Pengwern are the steam-rollers in my test-games.

While imo. in Calradia (Warband Native), this AI feature is not so disturbing, or better said in my experience, the 6 factions apply their strategical behavior quite clever, and it is just quite balanced, i haven't encountered  the same faction-ruler outcomes strategically, even if i play 3 campaign trials after another towards a Rhodok lord.

* I'm registered just today to post or perhaps finding a discussion about the strategy-balance thing, and just found your post, ajaxjs, lol ... totally fits.

I'm playing Brytenwalda the last two days nearly nonstop (vacations), formerly a lot Calradia Native with very little of my own modding (small tweaks only, which i partly even took back to vanilla).
And i must say, this total conversion 'Brytenwalda' in itself is an awesome modding work, rather worth to call it a Warband game expansion, i'm extremely impressed ... i'm a modder myself, thus know what it means to provide such a project (i'm a Total War series modder). ... and since knowing/playing M&B Warband, completely abstinent from Total War and all other games from ie. Paradox and Bethesda ... in the meantime, i absolutely don't understand why M&B is rather a market-niche game, compared to all strategy/tactics/RPG games which i know, M&B Warband rules.

That said, i probably look into Brytenwalda module files, if there is something to do for the diplomatic start situation aka moddable. Perhaps one can do a bit balancing for the small factions. Also, for me as history buff, the complete ahistorical campaign-flow is a bit extra-annoying (and no, i don't come to discuss realism vs gameplay and such, no chance).

I usually play as christian which means that Mierce is destroyed early in the game. What I'm saying is that your action should dictate what happens to each faction, be a ruler instead of letting the game rule you.

Hm, for beginners i assume that is impossible ie. "destroying Mierce early in the game" ... overall, how can you do it the "dictate the game", when one needs a lot time to build-up a powerful character and companions and army? What's your way exactly?

Also, as history-lover, i personally don't wanna destroy factions, and ie. Mierce with king Penda was the power of the Brytenwalda time. Don't wanna or expect a history-simulation, but a bit of balancing-reflection would be nice for the immersion - Brytenwalda partly even provides that, but then factions are destroyed far too fast.

Today i'll look into files, if there is a way to change the start-diplo stances.

DaVincix said:

Hm, for beginners i assume that is impossible ie. "destroying Mierce early in the game" ... overall, how can you do it the "dictate the game", when one needs a lot time to build-up a powerful character and companions and army? What's your way exactly?

Also, as history-lover, i personally don't wanna destroy factions, and ie. Mierce with king Penda was the power of the Brytenwalda time. Don't wanna or expect a history-simulation, but a bit of balancing-reflection would be nice for the immersion - Brytenwalda partly even provides that, but then factions are destroyed far too fast.

Today i'll look into files, if there is a way to change the start-diplo stances.

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I'm much in the same boat as you are, as far as immersion goes.

If you find anything in the code that looks like it can be snipped out to avoid this phenomena, let me know...I'd like it if Idbil commented in this thread too, since he knows the most.

I'm still in the kinder shoes with the files (looking/researching for AI files and modding/testing now factions.txt) - i replied, in principle, in your other thread.

I didn't say I destroy Mierce, I just keep their lords beaten and other faction take the opportunity and conquer it piece by piece. There's guides how to create a strong army quickly, read some and you'll find what fits your style.

Vesku said:

I didn't say I destroy Mierce, I just keep their lords beaten and other faction take the opportunity and conquer it piece by piece. There's guides how to create a strong army quickly, read some and you'll find what fits your style.

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I believe i know the main principles from playing enough of Native, also from reading guides here (ie. most important ones here: http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,155372.0.html) and few single posts how players act in Brytenwalda.

What interests me here with Brytenwalda, what do you mean with "quick" powerful etc., how long, how much days for example does it take for you (and on which difficulty settings, player damage etc. and without cheats, ie. with my settings, one axe-hit from a Bagauda hits me down in the start-phase) ?

Get money (easy feat), buy mercs, start killing all sorts of bandits. Collect their prisoners to your army. As soon as you are able start beating lords, they are easier opponents than Franks or Denas. Shouldn't take you more than couple of months to have at least 100 heavies and same amount of medium and that's if you are picky about your troops.

Difficulty is about 100%, normal damage and yes, one hit will drop you early game. Get a long spear and a horse, only thing that drops you is a lucky missile or your mistake.

Thanks Vesku, for the short and concrete description!
That's certainly a way (esp. buying mercs) ... just a question if it fits to the personal player approaches to the game.

Anyway, we went offtopic

Yeah, I sometimes play with a strickt one culture only army, like just saxons in my troops. That is a very slow way to play the game but can be even more entertaining than a quick approach.

Sorry about the offtopic detour.

Vesku said:

Yeah, I sometimes play with a strickt one culture only army, like just saxons in my troops. That is a very slow way to play the game but can be even more entertaining than a quick approach.

Sorry about the offtopic detour.

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I wish there was a way to tweak it so there were greater penalties or bonuses inherent in hiring troops of your culture, or not of your culture.

Vesku, btw. i'm also the Saxon-type ... but recently i tried a multi-army from the whole isle "give the example, we can live together" so to speak /jk (merely also to get knowledge of the different units per faction/culture etc.).


Back to topic: I believe, my little faction relation tweaks have a little impact, perhaps it did something ... at least no little (Welsh) faction was destroyed by a big one (but one by a neighbor), day 120 or so. Else, one faction in Ireland and one small Hibernian ... iirc. now.
Also, i haven't read a message that a faction declares war due to "faction is too strong" (the power reduction reason) ... but might happen still (i know this from Native, of course).
As for file/code change, it simply would need a CAI command: Check enemy power formerly prior to war/power reduction (if possible overall, we need a CAI modder here).

Else, examples:
Bernaccia still lives ... however in this campaign Pengwern rules so far (ie. took Norferwic from Bernaccia), they are somehow overpowered imo. (too much start location/lords and trade without end).
East-Seaxe is slowly dying now by East-Anglia which are alive and kickin, ie. because Mierce has a lot warfronts from the start.
All saxon factions alive and good, also Centwern (Jutes).

All in all, in seems to me, that it looks bit better than my former campaign-trials ... faction borders a bit more stable.
I might tweak a little more, and start once more ... lol.

ajaxjs said:

Vesku said:

Yeah, I sometimes play with a strickt one culture only army, like just saxons in my troops. That is a very slow way to play the game but can be even more entertaining than a quick approach.

Sorry about the offtopic detour.

Click to expand...

I wish there was a way to tweak it so there were greater penalties or bonuses inherent in hiring troops of your culture, or not of your culture.

Click to expand...

A working morale impact would do it, but the problem is, the AI probably couldn't handle that.
Also, subdued areas still deliver the same former culture forces (a very well feature imo.). At least it would need something like a subjugation-phase, time and/or acts which increase the morale ... and a more working rebellion feature would be nice as well (re-mergent factions), so the conquerer is (if he wants to keep the subjugation) forced to act with the population.

Vesku said:

Get money (easy feat), buy mercs, start killing all sorts of bandits. Collect their prisoners to your army. As soon as you are able start beating lords, they are easier opponents than Franks or Denas. Shouldn't take you more than couple of months to have at least 100 heavies and same amount of medium and that's if you are picky about your troops.

Difficulty is about 100%, normal damage and yes, one hit will drop you early game. Get a long spear and a horse, only thing that drops you is a lucky missile or your mistake.

Click to expand...

Hey Vesku, still an open point for me:

"As soon as you are able start beating lords" ... how is that actually meant?

At that time, are you a lord of a faction, or do you act there independent (against the world, so to speak)?
In the latter case, what happens then? ... wouldn't all other factions (aka their lords) hate you from on this moment?
Or do you regard that just non-important, because your army is powerful enough to widstand everything (with 100 heavies + 100 mediums + ...)?

With good men you can easily beat twice your numbers, lords have a plenty of low tier units.

I'm never a lord of a faction, I build my force and become a king ... or die trying. I can buy myself out of hatred towards factions as long as I'm independent with very few coins and control who I'm fighting with. Once I'm king my troops should be strong enough for me not to care.

Interesting approach.
I actually would prefer to keep myself independent as well, never tried that in Native (as pretty much labeled as impossible/crazy), but possibly it's feasable in Brytenwalda even for me as still-beginner ... i even would prefer to keep a very little realm only, and make then a RPG style game.

But, next implication is then: When you are building your own kingdom, are you at war/hate with the rest of the world?
Background: I'm a "bit" of a history-fan, my goal for immersion is to keep such a framework like Brytenwalda slightly historically okay for the outcome and also not crazy-unrealistic regarding gameplay and even so boring with ie. battle after battle, that all the world hates me, and throws army after army at me all the game time when i'm independent. So, is it possible in Brytenwalda to realise an independent little kingdom and keep most or at leas the a majority of factions calm, or impossible?

There's an abundance of companions you can send off on missions to get right to rule points with. Each success gives you 3 points. I believe somewhere around 20-30 or so is when other kingdoms accept that you're legit. Other companions have certain ones they're morally opposed to you sending off on missions and thus will refuse to go on their own if you do so, but if you're creative in when you recruit and immediately send them off, you can get right to rule from all of them.


Being a King is one of the main selling points of this mod, and it's super fun.

Ah well, thanks for the answer - then it's the same as with Native here, with the right to rule item. But in Native, afaik, other factions will likely declare war to you, when you are a little new faction, even with right to rule (unless you would have good relations with everybody, so to speak). I know already that it is easier to get some rep and honor etc., so i have potencially the option to increase a better relation with locations/lords bit easier etc., compared to Native.

My question was rather, is it actually  feasable or realistic gameplay-wise in Brytenwalda, to keep a little kingdom without to have every second faction as potencial enemy throughout the game, or do i have to make very very good relations with nearly every other faction, or factions with whom i want to keep peace, can i ally with others etc. as player like the AI does? As said, i'm not interested being at war with all and everything just to play then battle after battle, just when every second or so faction jumps on me would annoy me a lot, negates every immersion, and thus gamebreaking for me.

Ie. Vesku wrote above "I can buy myself out of hatred towards factions as long as I'm independent with very few coins and control who I'm fighting with." ... how does that work in detail?
Also possible when you're a little kingdom?

How is the experience in this regard by all the BW veterans?

When you are independent and get to negative relations with a faction go to talk to any lord of that faction and ask for peace, you get it for couple of hundred coins which will restore the relations to zero.