Large combat has 2 armies circling each other and not attacking

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Arcon

Arcon

Sergeant
Old Guard
Started yesterday. I bring in 350 troops to make it a 700 vs 700 fight. I have it on 250 battle size.

My side starts out, I only get about 25 troops and allies bring in the rest. The other side has slightly more guys it looks like. The 2 armies start moving toward each other, but enemies drift to the left and allies to the right and they start doing a counterclockwise circle around each other . I stop my 25 guys in one spot as a sacrifice to see if that starts the combat but it does not and my guys get wiped out. After another minute or so my 'allies' charge and they fight. This stuff is happening more and more as i play, is it because I turned off the buggy battle formation option?

Also, earlier in the game it seemed 99% of battles ally lords would listen to my commands but now they do not, whether they be my vassal or another faction I am helping out. Any ideas how to get this function working as well?
 
1st:

Whether allied lords will listen to your commands, depends on if you're the marshall or not. A marshall has complete command over ALL friendly units in battle.

2nd:
The stand-off is sometimes annoying...but the battle trigger is this: CAUSE casualties. The 1st enemy dies, then you can expect an enemy attack within the next 10 seconds.
If YOU'RE losing units, and the enemy is not...then I believe the enemy is doing a good job.

The only annoying thing that happens, is if both sides are just camping on a high hill, out of range of all archers. In this case, I suggest you hit the "TAB" button, get a different map, and hopefully have different strategical choices.

But in general yes, battles are not so easy in PoP, that you can just co-ordinate a big army trap, and wait for the enemy to charge right into it.
 
zykox said:
1st:

Whether allied lords will listen to your commands, depends on if you're the marshall or not. A marshall has complete command over ALL friendly units in battle.

2nd:
The stand-off is sometimes annoying...but the battle trigger is this: CAUSE casualties. The 1st enemy dies, then you can expect an enemy attack within the next 10 seconds.
If YOU'RE losing units, and the enemy is not...then I believe the enemy is doing a good job.

The only annoying thing that happens, is if both sides are just camping on a high hill, out of range of all archers. In this case, I suggest you hit the "TAB" button, get a different map, and hopefully have different strategical choices.

But in general yes, battles are not so easy in PoP, that you can just co-ordinate a big army trap, and wait for the enemy to charge right into it.
Click to expand...
Something that works for me (cav archer style) is to just charge their lines when they stay out of range and kill a couple with my bow. That makes them charge while I run back to my army
 
As zykox explained, all you have to do is to cause a casualty.

If you use the "Cav. Archer" group, then you can get them to advance far enough (hold position at a specific spot or following you) until the enemy is within firing range. Let them rain arrows down on them until some recruit or shirtless berserker drops dead and immediately get them to retreat behind the rest of your army.

If your character is built for range, then you can simply play the above role yourself without having to command anything. If you're a lancer you can quickly charge in, impale somebody, and then retreat.
 
As everyone's said make sure someone dies/gets knocked out and they will both charge.  That said if you are early on (at any point) and weak, the enemy doesn't have to take the casualty, you or your allies can and they should both charge anyways.
 
zykox said:
1st:

Whether allied lords will listen to your commands, depends on if you're the marshall or not. A marshall has complete command over ALL friendly units in battle.

2nd:
The stand-off is sometimes annoying...but the battle trigger is this: CAUSE casualties. The 1st enemy dies, then you can expect an enemy attack within the next 10 seconds.
If YOU'RE losing units, and the enemy is not...then I believe the enemy is doing a good job.

The only annoying thing that happens, is if both sides are just camping on a high hill, out of range of all archers. In this case, I suggest you hit the "TAB" button, get a different map, and hopefully have different strategical choices.

But in general yes, battles are not so easy in PoP, that you can just co-ordinate a big army trap, and wait for the enemy to charge right into it.
Click to expand...

Good info, thanks for reply.

The thing is, the enemy is losing big numbers(at least 50 died) and still they just sit in their propeller formation slowly spinning. Also, allies are not charging if I engage, they just stand nearby spinning their ranks slowly. Then for whatever reason, they finally decide to attack. But basically its a huge nightmare trying to keep allies from being obliterated or my own men.

One way to abuse this ridiculous AI tactic is just to get them near the edge of the map and let half of them DERP into the side of the map while you drop the others.(sorry my honor lance is in the way)
xBvrU8Y.png


Sure hope Bannerlord fixes formations(up to 50% cav not spontaneously dismounting, etc) and this crazy AI.
 
AlphaOmega said:
As everyone's said make sure someone dies/gets knocked out and they will both charge.  That said if you are early on (at any point) and weak, the enemy doesn't have to take the casualty, you or your allies can and they should both charge anyways.
Click to expand...

Yea, that USED to be the case last time I played PoP but now they do not seem to follow that rule.
 
The thing with armies charging after casualties is a bit of an illusion. They always charge no matter what after something like 2 minutes if they're camping, or if they think the middle of the enemy army is too close. Can't remember the specifics but there's nothing in the native ai code that makes the ai charge after a few casualties. Iirc they might charge after they lose all their infantry/archers. But when it does happen that you kill the commander and they all start chasing, it tends to be a fluke.
 
jacobhinds said:
The thing with armies charging after casualties is a bit of an illusion. They always charge no matter what after something like 2 minutes if they're camping, or if they think the middle of the enemy army is too close. Can't remember the specifics but there's nothing in the native ai code that makes the ai charge after a few casualties. Iirc they might charge after they lose all their infantry/archers. But when it does happen that you kill the commander and they all start chasing, it tends to be a fluke.
Click to expand...

Really? It seems to be a recurring fluke, because every battle thats what I do, set my troops up then I charge by myself to the enemy line, take out the commander or just a random soldier, then charge back with my shield on my back.  Once close enough I order my archers to fire that way the enemy is chasing me instead of advancing with shields raised.  I guess it could be that it takes me the allotted time to set up, then kill the commander/random soldier, and they all follow me then.
 
VIcky has nothing to do with the regular native battle behaviour and it was invented by Treebeard. So PoP´s armies behave quite differently in an organized assault, means if a trained force it will apply depending on quite a lot of variables, like army composition, area etc.

Treebeard did a pretty good job there compared to natives behaviour. If you´ve ever seen a line of hostile archers camping on the hill while their cavalry starts to flank over to hunt down your archers you´ll see what I mean.
 
noosers said:
VIcky has nothing to do with the regular native battle behaviour and it was invented by Treebeard. So PoP´s armies behave quite differently in an organized assault, means if a trained force it will apply depending on quite a lot of variables, like army composition, area etc.

Treebeard did a pretty good job there compared to natives behaviour. If you´ve ever seen a line of hostile archers camping on the hill while their cavalry starts to flank over to hunt down your archers you´ll see what I mean.
Click to expand...

I love when I see that, when cav disappear only to appear over on one side or the other, always shift my companions over to block them.
 
The AI still seems to (mis)handle troops based on how you assign groups.

Putting your crossbowmen into group 1, and the AI uses them with infantry. Put them in group 4, the AI will have them mindlessly charge ahead. Sort of amusing I guess...

I like having my crossbows in a different group from my archers, though it makes Empire lords go nuts when I fight them.
 
Well, the AI uses only regular groups and if you shift the keys and mix the groups and are marshall you´ll order their infantry or horsearchers along your crossbows - which isn´t a big deal at all, given how powerful Empire Crossbows and EAC´s are and how precious. So they could use some fodder which helps them to survive.

The main thing which buggers me - but that again is a WB native feature - is that even as king I can´t outcommandeer my friggin marshal. If he´s around he´s got supreme command unless it´s a third party group. That really annoying having them stupidly advance instead of deploying correctly due to crappy army mix.
 
noosers said:
Well, the AI uses only regular groups and if you shift the keys and mix the groups and are marshall you´ll order their infantry or horsearchers along your crossbows - which isn´t a big deal at all, given how powerful Empire Crossbows and EAC´s are and how precious. So they could use some fodder which helps them to survive.
Click to expand...
The enemy AI does this as well when you are fighting them, which is a bit funny at times.

It's good to carry some Ravenstern Rangers if you are attacking them, and set them to number 4 or something, so the enemy will suicide charge all it's rangers ahead of the rest of the army. Specifically, it will line up and start marching, but the rangers will charge ahead right into your horsemen or arrows. The easiest is to have all your archers as number 4 or something.

It's also funny I guess to make the AI treat its berserkers, Scorpion Assassins etc as archers.
(These units I actually tend to put with my melee "charge in and fight and die" cavalry. They run really fast too.)
 
I find this more annoying early in the game, when your low tier troops are attacked by some heavy armored knight group and the knights that attack you just sit on a hill. 

The logical thing for me to do would be just walk away, but of course warband doesn't work that way.

There should be some setting where the attacker actually has to attack.  Thats one of the benefits of being on defense, they have to come to you if they want you gone.
 
Oyclo said:
I find this more annoying early in the game, when your low tier troops are attacked by some heavy armored knight group and the knights that attack you just sit on a hill. 

The logical thing for me to do would be just walk away, but of course warband doesn't work that way.

There should be some setting where the attacker actually has to attack.  Thats one of the benefits of being on defense, they have to come to you if they want you gone.
Click to expand...

In medieval times if you turned your back on an army they'd rip you to shreds, so that makes sense.

I doubt it, but I wonder if theres some way it could be implemented to where after a certain time of no damage being done, the defender can elect to start building field fortifications.
 
[quote author=AlphaOmega]

In medieval times if you turned your back on an army they'd rip you to shreds, so that makes sense.

[/quote]

Not how it works here though.  Right after I posted this, my somewhat ragged band of 45 was attacked by 19 Noldor.  Now I AM going to lose no matter what happens, but instead they park on a hill with their sniper rifles bows and expect ME to attack them?

Funny thing was they didn't move until I managed to get myself killed, they were happy to sit there.

This just doesn't make sense logically. 

"We are going to attack you and there is nothing you can do about it!"
"Ok..."
"Now come get us!"
"Um, how about no?"

 
The cause of this, I'm guessing, is the battle advantage doesn't really take into account the quality of the troops very well.  I've had positive battle advantage in fights I just can't due to troop quality and armor, so the computer acts like its the weaker party, not the stronger, and waits for you.
 
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