Vikings religion

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nacholoko16

Sergeant at Arms
Hello fellas, can someone explain me why did all the old kings(jarls, don know the exact word) vikings go into cristianism, i mean why they all acept and change their religion for cristianism? Did some King make a stand to the cristianism, some war for religion betwen their kings? Apreciatte the attention and sorry about my english.
 
Politics. It was no longer viable to be heathen in a Europe that had turned almost entirely Christian. Those of Asatru were viewed as lesser, not modern, filthy, and unrefined by the Christians, which in the long run became a problem. It was both voluntary and not, some suffered punishment of death and injury. A growing number of historians deem that the start of what we call the viking age was a revenge and counter-threat towards the genocides committed against heathens, as ordered by Charlemagne the Great.
 
Ohhh intersting, politics. Didnt think about it, i though i was something more like surviving. Anyway big **** their religion is awesome. Thanks for the help Yngvald!
 
Intresting too, i mean i was reading a couple of things and i see that the viking culture use some raid slaves on their daily services right... But i couldnt find if they were controlled intensilly or like go around, but remember you are mine. Anyway thanks too for the answer Ragna!
 
Like most cultural shifts in history, it was a matter of convenience.
Yngvald said:
A growing number of historians deem that the start of what we call the viking age was a revenge and counter-threat towards the genocides committed against heathens, as ordered by Charlemagne the Great.
Care to elaborate? Without having really looked into it, that theory sounds rather... fanciful.
 
Raptor-Jesus-the-no-life-club-25785940-610-488.jpg
 
Did they make some colony out of the europa, i mean in America or they work as mercenaries to the natives on South or North America? Cause i got a book thats shows historic facts that vikings reach Amazonas before Cabral.
 
That book must be written by an american... and Vikings were never mercenaries of native americans. o_O  They just had a settlement in Newfoundland (Canada) and they were some years there before they got destroyed by the natives there.  Those "historic facts" in that book is bull**** and you should throw it away.
 
The book who talks about presence on Brasil is from a american right, but the mercenary ones  is the Saga of Volsungos  kind of renown i think...
 
Sagas are stories and not 100% accurate, I mean a lot of Sagas includes mythic creatures for examply. There vikings were NEVER mercenaries for a native tribe and neither there were more downland then in canada,as the most americans think.
 
Yngvald said:
A growing number of historians deem that the start of what we call the viking age was a revenge and counter-threat towards the genocides committed against heathens, as ordered by Charlemagne the Great.
hrotha said:
Care to elaborate? Without having really looked into it, that theory sounds rather... fanciful.
I as well have never heard of this theory before. The only occurrence coming to my mind which could in a way be conceived as "genocide" against heathens in that context is the Saxon Wars anyway. As Hróþa has already asked, would you mind to elaborate on this, Yngvald?

nacholoko16 said:
Ohhh intersting, politics. Didnt think about it, i though i was something more like surviving.
Well, in a way it still was a matter of survival, at least a matter of securing one's standard of living.
nacholoko16 said:
Anyway big **** their religion is awesome.
Like most religions it has its benefits I guess. To be honest though, I am glad people do not believe in it anymore. But then again I have never been able to tell to what extent people took their religion literally or rather symbolically even back then.

nacholoko16 said:
Did they make some colony out of the europa, i mean in America or they work as mercenaries to the natives on South or North America?
Could you rephrase this sentence perhaps, nacholoko16?
nacholoko16 said:
Cause i got a book thats shows historic facts that vikings reach Amazonas before Cabral.
As far as I know there is the fairly controversial idea that at one point Phoenicians had reached the area of today's Brazil but I have never heard anyone claim Scandinavians navigated the Amazon during the Viking Age.
nacholoko16 said:
The book who talks about presence on Brasil is from a american right, but the mercenary ones  is the Saga of Volsungos  kind of renown i think...
Do you mean the Völsunga saga? If so, please tell me where it mentions Native Americans. Or am I misunderstanding you completely?

nacholoko16 said:
Ok then thanks for the material. Thanks for share the stuffs guys!
It is always good to see people willing to learn and broaden their minds.
 
I could say so much here but people are going to really hate me about this one.. (not that I care tho)

Christianity at that time was spreading like a plague. I believe many people converted because those were dark times indeed back then, if a party wants to, they can enter your village and kill you and your family and destroy the whole village.
The "brave men" and warriors killed eachother in battles/wars etc, they didn't return to their family which was waiting for them at home.

Sure, according to norse religion if you fight well then when you die you go to Valhalla, which sounds awesome, and I bet that's one of the reasons why vikings were so fierce, they believed in it, they KNEW it, it was a 100% fact to them so they maximized their abilities.

But there were people beside vikings, and even if they believed in that, a lot of them (especially the peasants, villagers etc) wanted to live their life fully. Not to die, not even for Valhalla and Valkyries, etc. But it was a sad life, imagine that one family dies of a plague, other killed by bandits, other killed by wild beasts, many other ones died just because a fat guy sitting on a throne decided the needs more money, etc.

Then come Christians with lust for power. I won't talk about Jesus, I won't blame him or something, maybe he did really want the best for his people. But, making a little note here before I proceed; if he's really God now, not just a random god, but the God whom the most people believe in, why doesn't he help them? I'm not talking about people randomly saying a miracle happened etc, i'm talking about things like, why doesn't he cures cancer completely?
There are 2 options (even 3):
1. He's not a god, he was a man, perhaps with talents, but he died like other people
2. He abandoned people and doesn't want to assist them because he knows they're scum. Only randomly you do see those "miracles" which might or might not be related to him.
3. He never existed at all. Not even as a man. History tells us bull****, religion tells us bull****, and crusaders and other zealots were thinking about something else (doesn't seem that realistic to me, tho).

Where was I now? Oh yes, then come Christians with lust for power, this is where I start blaming them, raging etc:
They want to conquer, but it's not easy to become king! You need a plan, a good plan, maybe good connections with people like at modern times, but you need to know your ****, because you either get killed and don't become anything, or a little group of idiots follow you and then a bigger group kills you and your puny kingdom.

So they come to the peasants, and ordinary warriors, like soldiers and maybe hired warriors/mercenaries I believe, and tell them:
But you have Jesus! Come and convert and you'll be alright, you will be saved, you will be pure, you'll go to heaven!
Translating this from lies to truth:
You have an imaginary friend, but he's above you, like the government. If you'll be a good dog he will pat you, and if you won't he will beat you.

But people don't have choice to think about questions like "is this lie or truth?". It's like I heard some guy, who said that somewhere in russia in the 90's, there was a woman and he asked her "who the hell are you?" and she told him "I am the mother of this world" and 200 people were following her and believing every word! It's amazing how people can be pathetic and naive when dark days are upon them.
People blindly follow, and those people blindly followed. The problem is not that people blindly followed, the problem is the AMOUNTS of people who blindly followed. And there were warriors too, there. But stuff like vikings was a big problem at first, when ppl just started to convert, vikings would come in and kill them.
Then the christians, seeing as they lose power (= lose chances to rise up high) say:
"Those pagans are scum, you need to hunt them down."
Even bigger problem is when they have facts to confirm their words:
"The village of X was raided by a pagan party! Come brothers and avenge them, come and kill the pagans!"

*raging note here: Fcking scum been spreading their lies and bull**** in a pagan land and expect no one to strike them back for it....

Then slowly the vikings and pagans were being hunted down, other pagans converted and you get a few kinds of people now:
People that converted a little later because they saw how their kind is being hunted down and saw no hope to continue believing in that religion as it will harm them.
And people that stood and fought til their deaths.
The so called Vikings were a minority, so parts of them lost hope and converted, the other were killed because they were protecting their land.
That's it.
 
nacholoko16 said:
Did they make some colony out of the europa, i mean in America or they work as mercenaries to the natives on South or North America?
Could you rephrase this sentence perhaps, nacholoko16?

Well i just ask if someone knows about a viking/scandinav colony on somewhere of America(South or North).

[/quote]
Do you mean the Völsunga saga? If so, please tell me where it mentions Native Americans. Or am I misunderstanding you completely?

Misunderstandingn volsunga is awesome and didnt say this, a book that i have say the vikings work to natives americans like mercenaries, did you know if it  is true?

aspirine101 said:
I could say so much here but people are going to really hate me about this one.. (not that I care tho)

Christianity at that time was spreading like a plague. I believe many people converted because those were dark times indeed back then, if a party wants to, they can enter your village and kill you and your family and destroy the whole village.
The "brave men" and warriors killed eachother in battles/wars etc, they didn't return to their family which was waiting for them at home.

Sure, according to norse religion if you fight well then when you die you go to Valhalla, which sounds awesome, and I bet that's one of the reasons why vikings were so fierce, they believed in it, they KNEW it, it was a 100% fact to them so they maximized their abilities.

But there were people beside vikings, and even if they believed in that, a lot of them (especially the peasants, villagers etc) wanted to live their life fully. Not to die, not even for Valhalla and Valkyries, etc. But it was a sad life, imagine that one family dies of a plague, other killed by bandits, other killed by wild beasts, many other ones died just because a fat guy sitting on a throne decided the needs more money, etc.

Then come Christians with lust for power. I won't talk about Jesus, I won't blame him or something, maybe he did really want the best for his people. But, making a little note here before I proceed; if he's really God now, not just a random god, but the God whom the most people believe in, why doesn't he help them? I'm not talking about people randomly saying a miracle happened etc, i'm talking about things like, why doesn't he cures cancer completely?
There are 2 options (even 3):
1. He's not a god, he was a man, perhaps with talents, but he died like other people
2. He abandoned people and doesn't want to assist them because he knows they're scum. Only randomly you do see those "miracles" which might or might not be related to him.
3. He never existed at all. Not even as a man. History tells us bull****, religion tells us bull****, and crusaders and other zealots were thinking about something else (doesn't seem that realistic to me, tho).

Where was I now? Oh yes, then come Christians with lust for power, this is where I start blaming them, raging etc:
They want to conquer, but it's not easy to become king! You need a plan, a good plan, maybe good connections with people like at modern times, but you need to know your ****, because you either get killed and don't become anything, or a little group of idiots follow you and then a bigger group kills you and your puny kingdom.

So they come to the peasants, and ordinary warriors, like soldiers and maybe hired warriors/mercenaries I believe, and tell them:
But you have Jesus! Come and convert and you'll be alright, you will be saved, you will be pure, you'll go to heaven!
Translating this from lies to truth:
You have an imaginary friend, but he's above you, like the government. If you'll be a good dog he will pat you, and if you won't he will beat you.

But people don't have choice to think about questions like "is this lie or truth?". It's like I heard some guy, who said that somewhere in russia in the 90's, there was a woman and he asked her "who the hell are you?" and she told him "I am the mother of this world" and 200 people were following her and believing every word! It's amazing how people can be pathetic and naive when dark days are upon them.
People blindly follow, and those people blindly followed. The problem is not that people blindly followed, the problem is the AMOUNTS of people who blindly followed. And there were warriors too, there. But stuff like vikings was a big problem at first, when ppl just started to convert, vikings would come in and kill them.
Then the christians, seeing as they lose power (= lose chances to rise up high) say:
"Those pagans are scum, you need to hunt them down."
Even bigger problem is when they have facts to confirm their words:
"The village of X was raided by a pagan party! Come brothers and avenge them, come and kill the pagans!"

*raging note here: Fcking scum been spreading their lies and bull**** in a pagan land and expect no one to strike them back for it....

Then slowly the vikings and pagans were being hunted down, other pagans converted and you get a few kinds of people now:
People that converted a little later because they saw how their kind is being hunted down and saw no hope to continue believing in that religion as it will harm them.
And people that stood and fought til their deaths.
The so called Vikings were a minority, so parts of them lost hope and converted, the other were killed because they were protecting their land.
That's it.

Bro, thanks for aport a nice post and i agreed and understand you!
 
You are free to think about religions whatever you want, aspirine101, but please inform yourself about history of religions and history in general before you talk about it. I do not want to lie to you, your view on history obviously is extremely flawed and naive. May I ask you how old you are?

aspirine101 said:
I could say so much here but people are going to really hate me about this one.. (not that I care tho)
What exactly do you deem the reason why people may hate you for your remarks?

aspirine101 said:
Christianity at that time was spreading like a plague.
This comparison does not really fit. Christianity initially emerged around the middle of the 1st century. The first dominion to become officially Christian was Armenia in the beginning of the 4th century, while it was still part of the Roman Empire. The Empire itself did not adapt Christianity as its ruling religion before the end of the same century. After the Roman Empire lost a lot of its influence in Western and Central Europe the Kingdom of the Franks was the most powerful political entity and the first of its rulers to become a Catholic was Clovis I who was baptised around the year 500. And it took almost half a millennium more until the first Scandinavian rulers became Christians. In view of this I reckon it is reasonable to say Christianity spread in a somewhat moderate speed within Europe, especially compared to the spread of Islam let alone epidemics.

aspirine101 said:
I believe many people converted because those were dark times indeed back then, if a party wants to, they can enter your village and kill you and your family and destroy the whole village.
Most of the kingdoms of the Early Middle Ages relied on raiding because their kings were mainly military leaders. Raids were not entirely arbitrary. Instead they were part of a more or less organised system. Of course, they were a threat to people but certainly not to everyone and not as omnipresent as you are implying.
aspirine101 said:
The "brave men" and warriors killed eachother in battles/wars etc, they didn't return to their family which was waiting for them at home.
This was not the First World War. The victorious warriors could always return to their families and even those who lost a fight were not always slaughtered. It was much more convenient to take an enemy prisoner than to just kill him.

aspirine101 said:
Sure, according to norse religion if you fight well then when you die you go to Valhalla, which sounds awesome, and I bet that's one of the reasons why vikings were so fierce, they believed in it, they KNEW it, it was a 100% fact to them so they maximized their abilities.
Personally I do not see what is so appealing about becoming an Einherjar determined to remain at Vígríðr. Also, what do you mean by "maximi[sing] their abilities"?

aspirine101 said:
But there were people beside vikings, and even if they believed in that, a lot of them (especially the peasants, villagers etc) wanted to live their life fully. Not to die, not even for Valhalla and Valkyries, etc. But it was a sad life, imagine that one family dies of a plague, other killed by bandits, other killed by wild beasts, many other ones died just because a fat guy sitting on a throne decided the needs more money, etc.
No doubt, life was more dangerous in the Middle Ages than it is for certain people today, including us, but if it really was as relentless as you say it would be astonishing to see how many actually survived it. Having said this, all people must die regardless of their religious believes, so I can not really tell what point you want to make.

aspirine101 said:
Then come Christians with lust for power.
This might come as a surprise to you but thirst for power is presumably one of the last motives for someone to enter a convent. And much of Christian mission was performed by monks. A number of Iro-Scottish monks actually came into conflict with some Christian leaders. Mind you, just like today Christians did not act as one huge unit and not everyone of them was craving for power.

aspirine101 said:
I won't talk about Jesus, I won't blame him or something, maybe he did really want the best for his people. But, making a little note here before I proceed; if he's really God now, not just a random god, but the God whom the most people believe in, why doesn't he help them? I'm not talking about people randomly saying a miracle happened etc, i'm talking about things like, why doesn't he cures cancer completely?
There are 2 options (even 3):
1. He's not a god, he was a man, perhaps with talents, but he died like other people
2. He abandoned people and doesn't want to assist them because he knows they're scum. Only randomly you do see those "miracles" which might or might not be related to him.
Religions are not logical. To me the doctrine of Trinity is implausible, just like the idea that the world would consist of a gigantic tree is implausible to me as well. Since the latter is fairly tangible it could be disproven completely though.
aspirine101 said:
3. He never existed at all. Not even as a man. History tells us bull****, religion tells us bull****, and crusaders and other zealots were thinking about something else (doesn't seem that realistic to me, tho).
I think it is quite safe to assume that crusaders were Christians.

aspirine101 said:
Where was I now? Oh yes, then come Christians with lust for power, this is where I start blaming them, raging etc:
They want to conquer, but it's not easy to become king! You need a plan, a good plan, maybe good connections with people like at modern times, but you need to know your ****, because you either get killed and don't become anything, or a little group of idiots follow you and then a bigger group kills you and your puny kingdom.

So they come to the peasants, and ordinary warriors, like soldiers and maybe hired warriors/mercenaries I believe, and tell them:
But you have Jesus! Come and convert and you'll be alright, you will be saved, you will be pure, you'll go to heaven!
Translating this from lies to truth:
You have an imaginary friend, but he's above you, like the government. If you'll be a good dog he will pat you, and if you won't he will beat you.
I think what you are trying to describe here is part of the concept of a crusade. The only crusaders operating in Scandinavia were Swedish people conquering Finish areas. There is not really much known about it though. Apart from this, people did not become Christians in order to take part in crusades. You seem to confuse a lot here.

aspirine101 said:
But people don't have choice to think about questions like "is this lie or truth?".
No. One way or another people think about everything that is told to them. People do not instantly believe everything they are told. When I leave the house and tell the first person I meet the earth was flat he surely would not believe me. People believe nothing that does not fit the worldview they already have. In order to believe these things they have to change their other views accordingly.

aspirine101 said:
But stuff like vikings was a big problem at first, when ppl just started to convert, vikings would come in and kill them. […] The so called Vikings were a minority, so parts of them lost hope and converted, the other were killed because they were protecting their land.
Vikings were raiders. They did not fight to defend themselves. At the beginning they could not even have defended themselves against Christians simply because they were not under attack. It may be a romantic ideal, but Vikings were far from being religious warriors fighting crusaders and the like.

aspirine101 said:
Fcking scum been spreading their lies and bull**** in a pagan land and expect no one to strike them back for it....
Seriously, what are you even talking about?


To be quite honest, I am not sure what you are actually trying to communicate, aspirine101. You may rest assured that I am willing to talk you but it makes it impossible for me when the things you are saying basically do not make sense. Pardon me for being so direct but I am just honest with you.





nacholoko16 said:
Well i just ask if someone knows about a viking/scandinav colony on somewhere of America(South or North).
In Newfoundland around the year 1000 a settlement was founded probably by Leifr Eiríksson which is nowadays called L’Anse aux Meadows. If I remember correctly some people assume that perhaps other settlements were founded as well.

nacholoko16 said:
Misunderstandingn volsunga is awesome and didnt say this.
What did you mean by "Saga of Volsungos" then and what does it have to do with the topic at hand?

nacholoko16 said:
[A] book that i have say the vikings work to natives americans like mercenaries, did you know if it  is true?
There was some trade between the colonists and the Native Americans but I have never heard about employment between them.
 
Watch it, aspirine. Civil discussions about the history of pagan religions and the conversion to Christianity are definitely allowed, but there are lines that must not be crossed.

edit: also go pick up a history book?
 
nacholoko16 said:
Misunderstandingn volsunga is awesome and didnt say this.
What did you mean by "Saga of Volsungos" then and what does it have to do with the topic at hand?

nacholoko16 said:
Guess it was a missunderstood ahahha very sorry about now i read again my posts and didn fix with all! Anyway thanks for all the answers i really apreciate. And too there is no need to fight with aspirine, maybe its just her point of view only. Just saying of course...
 
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