No Principality of the Vaegirs

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I have been playing Floris for 2 years and almost every game I play Vaegirs are destroyed by Nords. I am from Slavic country and this bothers me. Every time I start new game, Nords get all of territory of Vaegirs and they are almost unstoppable. I cant figure out how can they manage it. I can defeat them with few Slave Crushers, their infantry is absolutely useless in field battle. Yes they are good in conquering, but it looks that Vaegirs are just too drunk to hold in game longer that 250 days... :???:
 
I don't understand your problem. I've looked at the map of East-Europe, and I've never seen a principality of the Vaegirs on it. I know a lot of people from East-European countries, and I've never run into a Vaegir.

So why do you care?  :razz:
 
Yep, in Floris, Swadians, Vaegirs, and Khergits usually get conquered over the course of the game unless you get involved. The trick to preserving a faction is to become a mercenary for them as soon as possible. That way you can join battles with them and help out. Many times fighting it out on the field has more favorable results than autoresolve (especially sieges). This will subtly affect the balance of the conflict in favor of your allies.

Vaegir units own Nords pretty hard in battle with their amazing archers and cavalry. Get in there and fight alongside them if you want to see the Vaegirs last into the late game.
 
lol

My country's representative isn't even in Floris. :razz:

Actually the Nords and Vaegirs are really balanced in my games. Sometimes the Nords destroy the Vaegirs but sometimes the Vaegirs destroy the Nords. There's too many factors to determine who dominates who. If Swadia is pushing hard on the Nords they'll have trouble fighting the Vaegirs too. If Swadia is too busy fighting the Rhodoks and the Khergits, then the Nords might have more breathing room to concentrate on the Vaegirs. Also if the Tundra Bandits are allowed to roam freely they'll make it hard for the Vaegirs in general (just like any bandit in any region).

Point is, there's too many factors. If you start a new game there's a chance that the Vaegirs conquer everything without your help. It's a low chance but it's definitely possible.
 
Why do people keep using that term? A RNG in programming is a complicated algorithm where you don't just let (store_random_in_range, ":rand", 1, 100), do its job. RNG involves influencing the "random number" one way or another based on what you want it to do. It's supposed to lower the chance of too many lucky/unlucky streaks, such as hitting a 10% critical hit 10 times in a row, or rolling snake eyes on dice 6 times in a row (all mathematically possible but fairly unlikely).

I can assure you there is no such algorithm in Warband, not for anything and certainly not for auto-calc battles. All of it is actually random, influenced only by the options that you set in Diplomacy under Mod Options (quantity vs. quality of troops).

The reason this is important is that you should know no weird programming math is actually influencing your game. It really is all random. The only programmed influences that are at play are not RNG but actual conditions like "if faction A is at war on too many fronts, attempt to make peace with the best possible candidate" or something.
 
Well, I'm not really mad or anything but it is kinda annoying, especially now that it's becoming some kind of trend on the internet among gamers. I hear people saying it in games both in and out of context. What I find annoying I mean is the concept of RNGs in games, not you or what you said.

Personally I'm pissed off as a programming math/logic fan that programmers felt the need to even have RNGs exist. Theoretically every RNG should produce results roughly equal to the chance originally expressed without the RNG's intervention (10% should still feel like 10%). In which case, why even bother making an RNG?

The only thing RNGs do is guarantee a failure/success in some circumstances. For example, for a 10% chance to critically hit, if a guy actually hits 10 in a row the RNG can guarantee he won't hit the 11th no matter what you do. The thing is that a good RNG should not be noticeable to players at all (otherwise it's a bad RNG lol). Like I said, 10% should always and forever feel like 10% even with the RNG. If that's so then, why not just let the random numbers actually play out? A 10% chance to hit in a large sample size (like 10,000 attempts) will roughly show you a 10% turnout (maybe 936 or 1,092), even if there's a lot of consecutive hits in a row in there.

The reason it pisses me off is that if applied to a game like Warband, it implies that under some circumstances it would be impossible for certain things to happen that should be random. For example, when trying to recruit a lord to join your army, there is a certain random number that is calculated after all factors based on circumstances and your dialog choices are factored in. If you have a high enough relation with him, you say everything he wants to hear, your court and his current liege's court would hold him in roughly the same position and his family isn't in danger, you might have a 75% chance to hire him, which is a really high chance. If you fail due to the 25% chance, if you reload the save and do everything again you still have a 75% chance to hire him. An RNG that is designed to prevent you from being too successful beyond the projected success rate can prevent that especially if you've been getting too many successful lord hires recently. Because you successfully recruited 10 lords in a row recently, for example, the RNG will try to bring it back down to 75% and you're guaranteed to fail your next 3 recruitment attempts, no matter how good you are at smooth talking them.

Bringing it into context with this topic, if RNGs existed in Warband, it could mean that if the Vaegirs have been winning too much, the RNG could force them to suddenly suck. If your low level troops have been too accurate with their bows and getting too many kills, an RNG can force them to miss more shots just to make sure that they're weaker than higher level troops. And yes such RNGs exist in other games.

Anyway, let's just be glad that RNGs don't exist in Floris. It's technically possible to add them and maybe some mods do have them for certain scripts, but random is random in Floris.

That said, don't worry about the Vaegirs sucking, Tyr0. You've just been quite unlucky. Chances are (without RNG) one of the times you do another playthrough with them, you'll have them dominating.

Due to my modding and testing and stuff I've done so many playthroughs that I've lost count. It's in the hundreds for sure. I've seen an insane amount of possible outcomes, many of which are really surprising. I've seen the Nords almost eliminate the Rhodoks within 90 days (how they even started a war with each other that early in the game is still a mystery to me), I've seen the Sarranids dominate both the Rhodoks AND the Khergits and cause them to surrender at the same time, and I've seen Swadia come back to almost conquer all of Calradia from being pushed back to just one city. All of this stuff without my helping them. All of this is randomly generated after the initial faction relations (which are set to guarantee that the game begins with at least one war going on instead of boring peace mode for everybody when the player is thrust into the story).

And that, to me, is what makes Warband great.
 
Yea well I thought you know that Vaegirs are "Slavic" country. I could have been unlucky, but it happends literally in every game, I saw Vaegirs win war against Nords just once in maybe 20 games...That is sad. Swadians are the same while Khergits are good sometimes.

I just wanted to know if there isnt any bug in Vaegir politics and/or army/lords. Their archers are fantastic and their cavalry is quite good so I thought the game will be little more random. I see just one option for me: Make my own kingdom on ruins of Principality and call myself Velikyi Knyaz  :grin:
 
Nah, no bugs, at least as far as I can tell.

Politics does play a big role in determining their success in most things including war, but it isn't buggy for the Vaegirs in particular. The game doesn't calculate that stuff on a per-faction basis. That's why I know it's random.

Simplified code:

Code:
DO THIS FOR EACH EXISTING FACTION!
Faction X. Is it time to do political calculations? (Yes/No)
If yes, let's do some political calculations.
If no, skip to next faction.
If we are at the end of the list of factions, wait until the next time it's time to do political calculations, then do this stuff again.

There is no special code for the Vaegirs or any faction for that matter. Practically all the scripts look like that and have no special considerations for anything (with some exceptions such as making sure each faction has a reason to go to war with its neighbors at the start of the game), which is how Warband keeps everything random.

There might be a slight disadvantage for the Vaegirs of the Swadians aren't at war with the Nords (Swadia seems to hate the Rhodoks more than the Nords). Also the Vaegirs have a similar problem to the Sarranids, which is vast open lands with a high potential for bandits between certain villages and the towns. This matters in the long run, because if the villagers and trade caravans are hounded by bandits, the region's prosperity is always down. Whoever owns that village and the town has less money, which is actually used for calculating their troop recruitment (quality and quantity). The poorest lords can only afford to ride with only 40-ish crappy soldiers, which sucks of course.

I see just one option for me: Make my own kingdom on ruins of Principality and call myself Velikyi Knyaz  :grin:
That's always what I do when I don't like how a kingdom is going and I want to "save" it lol.
 
In my game Nords and rhodoks dominate a lot. the nords and rhodok dominate. Usaully swadia falls early, vaegirs doesn't completely fall but ended up with one or two fiefs. The other factions just are just waiting for the nord advance. IN my game, vaegir falls in 250 days, swadia 700, but they got up a few days later. Swadia and vaegirs are almost always the underdogs, this is something you should get used to.
 
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