Final Final version of 1257ad

Hey guys,

I just found out about this mod and tried it out. I have to say I really like the concept and the mod so far in many ways. However, I also found this mod to be not very playable at its current stage. I have 1.03 kill the peasants version installed and here are my honest criticisms with it: Generally these are all directed at the world map.

1. The world map is too huge compared to the size of the player and the locations of cities and towns. When I signed up to fight for a lord, I spent a majority of time just trying to find him on the map. I know you can ask other lords of the same faction for the location, but it didn't help much with a huge map like in this mod. This became very frustrating when you have limited spotting abilities or travel speed.

2. Could you consider adding more villages or cities into the map to fill up the vast amount of empty spaces?

3. Aesthetically, the world map terrain doesn't look very appealing.  Could you add more trees, green fields, some small valleys and hills? I feel like I am a tiny ant crawling over brown vomit most of the time. I mean europe had vast areas of forests and mountains and I feel like this isn't well represented here when Scotland and Germany have the same colored terrain.

4. Finally, I have one issue with the mercenary recruitment system. I felt that it was OP'ed. For 1000 denars, which is what I started with, you get around 20 mercenary who can easily kill the common bandits. From there on and once I joined a lord's side, I had no issues with keeping my troops funded. I wondered if you can maybe lower the number of mercs you get and also lower the wages that the lords will pay you to be a merc for them? I noticed that in the native version, you only have 1-6 mercs at a time. Also the lords pay you like 400 coins per week, instead of 1000 coins..

These are just some of my thoughts to make the game more enjoyable and challenging. Thanks!

well 4.) will become irrelevant very quickly when you proceed in the game, because if you are a merc you don't earn your income through wages my friend !

You use your merc status to do the following:

0.) (Also Before becoming a merc) u recruit all merc companions and build a nice "Gard"-unit - so anything less than 35 bandits won't harm u anymore - so that you can

1.) raid enemy caravans - easy target for even the smallest merc group (nice items they drop, which u sell for 2-3.000 denars)

2.) Plunder enemy villages (if u so desire) ! It will make you rich  (allways gets you at least 3-5.000 denars) and most times there is allways at least 1 village rdy for plundering

3.) no matter who you fight - pick up every glaive, sword and take every warhorse if u got the chance - because of this mechanic (if u don't know it, it's a 1257ad feature);
You can easily pick 2,3 valuable items from the battlefield you can then keep, whilst keeping your original gear also - means the items (only when picked up - before battle-end!!!)
will then appear in your inventory - this way you can find nice swords and horses for you and your companions without spending 150.000 denars
And if you geared yourself up -then just sell that stuff and get rich !

4.) If you are powerfull enough (70-120 man) try to fight weakened enemy lords ! - you will get renown, much experience, can capture the lord, what bigger parties of your side wouldnt be able to, because to slow etc. -> weakens enemy because it freezes a lord + a bunch of thousand for you as ransom !

From there on you won't have any problem to get more and more wealthy, of course you have to win the battles you pick and so on ...

Well become a merc is somehow the easiest way in this game to get rich very fast - for example in my actual game (like, 2,3 revisions old, don't know exactly)  i made 430.000denars in the first 50days of a complete new game

So my point is - wages (about 3k a week) don't count after the first 2 weeks imo. And ingame financial mechanics are fine I think. Because if you are settled and maybe have your own kingdom you will find it very much harder to finance your kingdom, because you can't just always raid villages in war, most times you have to fight !
So a mercenary maybe even richer than a king in 1257 ad ^^ ? (only got a kingdom in the old 0.97beta

Egilheard said:

Hey guys,

I just found out about this mod and tried it out. I have to say I really like the concept and the mod so far in many ways. However, I also found this mod to be not very playable at its current stage. I have 1.03 kill the peasants version installed and here are my honest criticisms with it: Generally these are all directed at the world map.

1. The world map is too huge compared to the size of the player and the locations of cities and towns. When I signed up to fight for a lord, I spent a majority of time just trying to find him on the map. I know you can ask other lords of the same faction for the location, but it didn't help much with a huge map like in this mod. This became very frustrating when you have limited spotting abilities or travel speed.

2. Could you consider adding more villages or cities into the map to fill up the vast amount of empty spaces?

3. Aesthetically, the world map terrain doesn't look very appealing.  Could you add more trees, green fields, some small valleys and hills? I feel like I am a tiny ant crawling over brown vomit most of the time. I mean europe had vast areas of forests and mountains and I feel like this isn't well represented here when Scotland and Germany have the same colored terrain.

4. Finally, I have one issue with the mercenary recruitment system. I felt that it was OP'ed. For 1000 denars, which is what I started with, you get around 20 mercenary who can easily kill the common bandits. From there on and once I joined a lord's side, I had no issues with keeping my troops funded. I wondered if you can maybe lower the number of mercs you get and also lower the wages that the lords will pay you to be a merc for them? I noticed that in the native version, you only have 1-6 mercs at a time. Also the lords pay you like 400 coins per week, instead of 1000 coins..

These are just some of my thoughts to make the game more enjoyable and challenging. Thanks!

Click to expand...

I guess I read this a little differently to Ritter_Ronald, so I'll post a few thoughts here as well.

*I am just an interested player, like yourself*

1) Personally I like the size of the map. I think it gives a realistic feel to the sheer scope of the task of conquering all Europe. Also if the map was smaller, what would you do with the passage of time? Would you make the time pass even quicker so that it still took a somewhat realistic amount of time to travel between places? (Perhaps to the point of day/night cycle seeming like a strobe-light  ) Would you decrease the speed at which parties travelled on the map, in order to keep the passage of time the same? (Remember this will affect the time-limit balance of Quests). Or simply modify the time-limit of quests to fit into a redesigned map-size? As to the trouble with spotting or pathfinding (for map speed and finding Lords), Mercenary Companions can help you there, not the Mercenary troops from Taverns. You can level the Companion skills yourself as they improve.

2) To the best of my knowledge, this mod has been developed for 5 years+ , and many decisions have undoubtedly been made regarding what to include or not include. As it stands, I believe it is a good attempt to provide an accurate/realistic (within reason) depiction of Europe in the year 1257. From what I have seen, the player themselves can cause new castles (with a village) to appear on the map, as they build. (I believe the "standard" for Towns/Castles/Villages, is one village per Castle and two villages per Town. Adding more of any would then by definition require the adding of more of something else, to the point that the mod would probably no longer resemble what it set out to achieve).

3) OK, I can see your point, to me it is no issue, but I wouldn't complain about some different terrain tiles. However, as regards to trees, hills etc... Again as far as I know, the world map is a 3D-mesh, the more vertices you add, the more performance would suffer. I believe it is the same for trees. So it again would be a balance issue between making the mod "playable by everyone" or making it so that only the top 10%? ... 1%? of computers could really run it well. I believe this mod is probably already "pushing the boundaries" of what can be achieved inside the M&B:W game-engine.

4) Haven't taken that approach in-game, so can't help with feedback.

You say you want to make the game more enjoyable, sure, I think we can all get behind that, but then you say to make it more challenging, but it seems some of the things you are asking would actually lower the challenge of the mod, especially for how *I* play it.

I am really not trying to start a fight here or anything, just to offer some other player feedback on the points as made.

Please don't nerf mercs. I love playing as a merc in this mod. Mercenaries are so cheap/good early on because once you become a lord the price and upkeep for them doubles making them fantastically expensive. So the game makes you pick to be a mercenary captain or a lord because lords with mercenaries have to burn through them or unhire them really fast because of the costs.

Hey guys, I posted the below question in the FAQ thread but didn't receive any replies yet. So thought I might try it here on this thread instead!

Hey everyone! I have a question!

So I just got my first castle and I have a chamberlain there. In the dialogue with him I see the options to set recruitment laws for both the nobility and the commoners (peasants).  There are two options for each class which are essentially:

1.) only those willing to fight are called up for action (volunteers). Or...
2.) forced military service for everyone when asked.

What are the consequences of these options beyond the obvious of one being strictly voluntary and the other being forced service?

I'm assuming nobles would be cavalry and commoners would be archers/infantry yes?

Will my castle and village lose prosperity with forced service? Is there anything to gain from voluntary service, such as higher quality of troops or higher prosperity or relation with my fiefs? Would voluntary service mean less lances available for recruitment but higher quality troops (quantity vs quality sort of thing)?

I'm already able to train troops up to higher levels pretty quickly so would you recommend using a voluntary or forced recruitment system?

My initial idea was to force recruitment of nobles (more responsibility comes with the privileges of rank) and to have the commoners be volunteers. Any input on this and an explanation of the in-game consequences of these actions would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers!

PanzerDan86 said:

Hey guys, I posted the below question in the FAQ thread but didn't receive any replies yet. So thought I might try it here on this thread instead!

Hey everyone! I have a question!

So I just got my first castle and I have a chamberlain there. In the dialogue with him I see the options to set recruitment laws for both the nobility and the commoners (peasants).  There are two options for each class which are essentially:

1.) only those willing to fight are called up for action (volunteers). Or...
2.) forced military service for everyone when asked.

What are the consequences of these options beyond the obvious of one being strictly voluntary and the other being forced service?

I'm assuming nobles would be cavalry and commoners would be archers/infantry yes?

Will my castle and village lose prosperity with forced service? Is there anything to gain from voluntary service, such as higher quality of troops or higher prosperity or relation with my fiefs? Would voluntary service mean less lances available for recruitment but higher quality troops (quantity vs quality sort of thing)?

I'm already able to train troops up to higher levels pretty quickly so would you recommend using a voluntary or forced recruitment system?

My initial idea was to force recruitment of nobles (more responsibility comes with the privileges of rank) and to have the commoners be volunteers. Any input on this and an explanation of the in-game consequences of these actions would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers!

Click to expand...

Are you referring to the recruit local nobles thing? Because that allows you to recruit 3 npcs that act as heroes, but are offensive based. All other hireable companions have specialties (monks, trainers, traders etc) and aren't combat oriented.

You actually get infantry from towns, archers from villages, and cav from castles. Infantry and archers get swapped around dependant on culture, but cav is always from castles which generally upgrade into knights.

      I thought for sure I'd never see you guys again! This is really exciting. I really feel guilty listing off problems I've found as AD 1257 is incredibly fun to play. I've put many hours into it, and really I can find no other mod that gives me as much entertainment as yours. I've actually managed to get pretty deep in a campaign recently, which is no mean feat considering all of the options you've made available. Rebuilding the Byzantine Emperor, skirmishing with feuding families in Italy, pushing the Moors out of Spain, leading lightning raids into Crusader territory. Seriously, as a M&B player and a medieval history buff, this mod more than anything else sates my appetite for raw, middle ages combat. You've picked a great time period, rife with blood, intrigue and large scale warfare, one of the most hectic Europe has ever faced. I cannot say enough how much I appreciate your work. So with that acting as a prelude, here are my grievances.
     
      I've faced a couple of problems with the latest version, primarily dealing with companion culture. When I would recruit in a Catholic village, the available companions would be Balkan, Then, in a Mongol village they'd be Orthodox, and in Muslim villages they'd be Catholic. So yeah, not a big deal but something I'd like to see fixed. The major castles in the middle east were a little bugged. While crusading, Jerusalem, Cairo and other cities were un-siegeable. The wall seemed to have another brick wall dissecting it, and there was a tiny space I could fit through to make it into the castle but the AI wouldn't follow me. Perhaps it registered as a continuation of a wall, or maybe I need to work on my men's moral  . Also, I figured I'd mention, a few of the women look like the spawn of the netherworld. My last few tips would be this. Add more companions per culture. When I go to the import/export companions screen in the Camp menu, I see the names of tons more characters that I'd love to have as a part of my party. Companions are one of my favorite features of M&B, and I like to have enough so I can have a few designated specialists (an engineer with a crossbow), a few sergeants for the different classes (maybe a tracker in the archers, trainer with the foot soldiers, and so on) and then a couple of cavalry companions in what I call my "retinue", who at the beginning of the battle I order to follow me and they act as a sort of bodyguard separate from my main cavalry. That's hard to do when, say, as a Catholic, I've got Simon, Henry, Charles and Nestor (excellent selection of WASPy names). Lastly, I think the "Recruit Mercenary Companions" may need a bit of an overhaul, as on the selection screen I see a Mongol named Orthodox trainer, middle-eastern Catholics and what have you. It's not so much that it's broken, it just feels like something is awry. Anyways, these are all minuscule issues, especially considering the size and scope of your mod, which, I will say again, is my absolute favorite.

      Also worth noting, some of the ages of characters are wrong, and some grown-ass-men would have been, in reality, too young to fight in 1257. I know for a fact that in the game Longshanks age is late 40's (although he doesn't look it) when he should be more around 18, with no daughter. The king of Cyprus would have also been far too young to do battle as well, if I'm remembering correctly. I've noticed a few more inconsistencies but nothing major. I wish there was a way to show that the HRE and King of England are brothers, but that's probably outside the realm of possibilities. If you need any help with the history aspects of the game I'd be thrilled to pitch in, my primary basis of knowledge would lie in Western European history, however I could easily dig up research on most anything. So yeah, there's always that. Anyways, thanks again for your work and feel free to PM me if you want to take me up on my offer.

DoctorTomas, can you predict how long it might be before it gets released, it's been 2 month.

Alfredthegreat said:

DoctorTomas, can you predict how long it might be before it gets released, it's been 2 month.

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Sorry, I really lacking time these days. But I'm still planing on finishing it.

DrTomas said:

Alfredthegreat said:

DoctorTomas, can you predict how long it might be before it gets released, it's been 2 month.

Click to expand...

Sorry, I really lacking time these days. But I'm still planing on finishing it.

Click to expand...

Perhaps a case of beer will help you along? I'll mail it out next Thursday, just pm me. (I really will though, or at least the money for a case of beer since I probably can't legally ship it, hahahaha)

Thanks mate, but no donations are needed

I uploaded some tweaks yesterday, more to come soon. Hopefully.

Hey DrTomas, Not to be a bother or anything, but what might the chances be of Caba`drin's snippet for moving whilst raiding towns/sieging getting implemented?

I've enjoyed everything in this mod so far, but that little limitation of Mount & Blade is one of the more annoying things I've ever encountered in this game.
Seeing how it's like, 137 lines, I'm sure it'd be easy to put in myself, but I'd rather not mess around with somebody's source code without their permission.

Doing some testing today, thanks Dr. 


Ok, hate to report this, town of Alleppo has a wage of -6,000 denars per week (with my army) after I took over control of the garrison. Is it supposed to stop at 4,000 or 3,000?

stevehoos said:

Doing some testing today, thanks Dr. 


Ok, hate to report this, town of Alleppo has a wage of -6,000 denars per week (with my army) after I took over control of the garrison. Is it supposed to stop at 4,000 or 3,000?

Click to expand...

I think the limit apply only to city/castle controlled automated garrison. Otherwise u could put 500 Elite Knights or something in it and pay 3k for them....

MortalDVall said:

stevehoos said:

Doing some testing today, thanks Dr. 


Ok, hate to report this, town of Alleppo has a wage of -6,000 denars per week (with my army) after I took over control of the garrison. Is it supposed to stop at 4,000 or 3,000?

Click to expand...

I think the limit apply only to city/castle controlled automated garrison. Otherwise u could put 500 Elite Knights or something in it and pay 3k for them....

Click to expand...

No, when you take control of a city ( towns) garrison, there should be a cap on the amount of money you have to pay, if not,  there would be no point in taking control of a town garrison. Even with low tier troops the weekly cost of a 500 man garrison is almost 10,000 a week; which is way too much.

The limiting should work like this:
if the fief is automated - then garrison money cap is 3000.
if the field is garrisoned manualy - then there is no garrison money cap, but you should still pay reduced price.


I think i need to expand the functionality on the town autonomy. For example you, could define what kind of troops for the town to hire:
Hire/do not hire mercenaries
Hire/do not hire foreign mercenaries
Hire/do not hire local troops
Hire/do not hire countries faction troops

perhaps possibility to invite foreign mercs into the town
perhaps prioritizing troops kind as well the town should gather the most (stinky burgers with sticks/peasants with range weapons/friendly nobility)

DrTomas said:

The limiting should work like this:
if the fief is automated - then garrison money cap is 3000.
if the field is garrisoned manualy - then there is no garrison money cap, but you should still pay reduced price.


I think i need to expand the functionality on the town autonomy. For example you, could define what kind of troops for the town to hire:
Hire/do not hire mercenaries
Hire/do not hire foreign mercenaries
Hire/do not hire local troops
Hire/do not hire countries faction troops

perhaps possibility to invite foreign mercs into the town
perhaps prioritizing troops kind as well the town should gather the most (stinky burgers with sticks/peasants with range weapons/friendly nobility)

Click to expand...

Hello there ... buck to ride like in the old days....
To the point: You got some excellent idea there, resolving some issues like crusader human player leading muslim armies in the holy land  and other. I suggested something similar, time ago about fiefs... but I don't remember exactly.. Please do try this . If the troops can also be used in your army , it makes possible for the player to customize an army, which is an interesting thing to do, and after all it is not that historically inaccurate.. For example: If someone just owns a village it is logical that he must recruit what he can find around there mostly. It is different for an important lord that owns a town or even a castle (whatever you like) where he can invite mercenaries, or other troops of his choice. It even gives more depth to the game. Waiting for your comment .. 
Edit: Don't tell me that you managed to make lance breaking random!!!!! It's just perfect!! My dreams  are coming true..     

Jason L. said:

DrTomas said:

The limiting should work like this:
if the fief is automated - then garrison money cap is 3000.
if the field is garrisoned manualy - then there is no garrison money cap, but you should still pay reduced price.


I think i need to expand the functionality on the town autonomy. For example you, could define what kind of troops for the town to hire:
Hire/do not hire mercenaries
Hire/do not hire foreign mercenaries
Hire/do not hire local troops
Hire/do not hire countries faction troops

perhaps possibility to invite foreign mercs into the town
perhaps prioritizing troops kind as well the town should gather the most (stinky burgers with sticks/peasants with range weapons/friendly nobility)

Click to expand...

Hello there ... buck to ride like in the old days....
To the point: You got some excellent idea there, resolving some issues like crusader human player leading muslim armies in the holy land  and other. I suggested something similar, time ago about fiefs... but I don't remember exactly.. Please do try this . If the troops can also be used in your army , it makes possible for the player to customize an army, which is an interesting thing to do, and after all it is not that historically inaccurate.. For example: If someone just owns a village it is logical that he must recruit what he can find around there mostly. It is different for an important lord that owns a town or even a castle (whatever you like) where he can invite mercenaries, or other troops of his choice. It even gives more depth to the game. Waiting for your comment .. 
Edit: Don't tell me that you managed to make lance breaking random!!!!! It's just perfect!! My dreams  are coming true..   

Click to expand...

Yes! I loved being a mercenary in England, working my way towards a lordship and being given a fief in Ireland. I was basically the auxilliary commander. While all of the other lords had their English troops I had the badass and dirty Irish regiments hacking down the enemy with their axes.

Downloading the SVN version to do some testing now   Just come fresh from 1.03 so should be interesting.  One thing, I'm probably worried about nothing, but I saw someone talking about the "anno" vs the "dev" version -what's the difference?  I'll let you know how I get on, and thank you from the bottom of my heart for making this mod and now for making this last push to finish an excellent piece of work!

Isn't the svn version full of bugs? I encountered some serious bugs right after starting a game.

Keep up the good work Thomas!