Faction Balance

After playing this mod for a while I've concluded that there are some serious problems with the balance of some nations.

Particularly the Welsh Principalities. I don't know if you've noticed but every single time without fail or deviation within 6 months of starting a new game the Welsh Principalities will be completely wiped out by the Kingdom of England. This is annoying for several reasons.

1. It limits the factions the player can associate themselves with as it is virtually impossible for the Welsh Principalities to survive long enough for you to become a vassal and help fight off the English with any sort of success unless King John decides to miraculously make peace with them.

2. It's a little strange that when the Kingdom of England is at war with so many factions at the beginning all of its campaigns are to conquer Wales rather than bother with Ireland or Scotland. You'd think that their main priority would be to conquer their main enemy which is France but instead they put specific emphasis on wiping out a few rebellious villagers with an army of 1500 of the King's finest making actual resistance and defense just about as possible as conquering the Holy Roman Empire as the Kingdom of Mann.

3. It dumbs the game down a lot by having specific events that are always going to happen. For example it would be so much more interesting if the Welsh Principalities were to become a stronger nation because of your impact rather than being systematically wiped out by a stronger force.

This really stunts my experience of the mod because I'd love to be able to fight for the Welsh Principalities and forge a massive civil war within Britain.

There are a few ways in which I forsee extending Wales survivability including but not limited to:

1. Giving them a town/another castle. This would make Wales slightly more survivable and give them a fighting chance when it comes to defending as they'd actually be able to defend against the 1500 strong army of English invaders that bear down upon them as they'd have a force 1/3 the size defending rather than 1/6 the size and 1/3 the size defending a large castle are generally favorable odds to a competent fighting force!

2. Make the Welsh units stronger. It comes as no surprise that the Welsh units excel in their bowmanship and are a likely contender for most powerful archer unit in the game however that makes no difference when considering that archers are very ineffective in this game due to a few factors including slow missile speed, low damage to relatively armoured foes and the ridiculously large hitboxes of shields along with the indestructibility of any decent shield that can be bought with little over a malnourished oxen. It would seriously increase the competitiveness of nations that focused on archers as their main fighting force and historically archers have been just as if not more effective than the common footman at winning a battle.

3. Add some code to reduce the number of armies that the Kingdom of England will send the attack Wales. This is my least favourite option and while I don't think it's a very good one it might appeal to some others. The Kingdom of England attack in full force with an army several times the size of the entire Welsh army and that's not even a quarter of England's lords attacking! So to remedy the ridiculously unfair odds you could reduce the number of soldiers they send so they outnumber Wales vastly but not to the point that there's 0% chance of survival for the Welsh.

Take what I said back about 6 months I meant around 65 days

Making the Welsh unit's tougher won't actually help with the faction getting wiped out before you join them. As I understand the auto-calculator does not take into account the abilities of the troops at all.
The main limitation of missile troops in any attempt at a simulation of history, is that the AI is not up to the task. IRL archer's are capable, at closer ranges, of looking for small openings in a line (perhaps a man with a smaller shield, or who is not covering himself properly) and placing a shaft into the whole, hopefully resulting in the man falling and a larger hole. In M&B the AI archers seem to shoot vaguely at the largest/closest knot of men, not focusing on those without shields, or with their backs turned.
Wales is further hampered in a simulation because it's survival as a semi-independent territory was mostly due to politics. Wales was not a unified 'faction' and nor were the marches. Lords and Princes on both sides plaid against each other, and made alliances. Further most of the Welsh Princes had pledged their fealty to the Kings of England (particularly the two Henrys, but John had similar pledges), and so John could not simply declare war and ride over them wholesale, without finding excuses.
Finally large scale invasion into Wales was hampered by supply difficulties (something again not factored into the AI in M&B) and guerilla warfare (not even represented).

In short, it's not the Mod which needs fixing, it's the game. Trying to work around it's core 'issues' will likely lead to more frustration and dribble-down issues than living with it would cause.

As for your specific suggestions:
1. Given how few 'towns' there are in Europe1200 in general, it's simply not realistic to give Wales a town (Hereford the economic capital of central England is only a castle). I do believe there was some discussion about giving increased economic options (in terms of goods for sale) in 'villages' and/or castles, which would benefit the Welsh Player, if not the AI.
2. Fiddling with the relative values of the core stats could produce some horrible side effects. Reducing the 'force-field' can produce some shields which don't cover their own area (which is infuriating) and could result in completely overpowering certain troops like horse-archers.
3. If that is possible It could in effect represent the most 'realistic' solution, representing individual lords trying to expand into Welsh territories rather than a massive royal army.

A couple of other suggestions for consideration (which may or may not be feasible/practicable):
a) Raising Non-combat lord skills. Giving Welsh lords better path-finding and surgery, might allow the Lords to perform some simulation of Guerilla tactics (buy attacking sections of the enemy army and out manoeuvring the main body) but I fear the actual AI is too basic for that, and the raised skills might give them unrealistic advantages should they manage to expand.
b) Would there be a way to provide Wales with more small wandering parties which would not travel into neighbouring areas? In the manner of some mod's patrols? Or for Welsh towns to spit out hire-able re-enforcements slightly faster. The Former idea representing the manner in which Welsh villagers occasionally armed up and went for a raid, and the later the simple fact that every adult male was expected to be able to fight, even if he was never actually called to do so.

In terms of how to succeed as a Welsh Lord in the mod: You'll have to do what the historical Lords who survived did, learn to use combined arms and remember to pick your fights carefully. With that in mind you might want to consider starting your own faction, perhaps found the Kingdom of Ceredigion.

[Note: I am not attempting to pooh-pooh your suggestions just trying to discuss round the topics in the hopes of finding an idea which would balance the field regarding 'early game-play Wales' without causing other issues, take too much work, throw realism out the window, or unbalance game-play.]

I like your suggestions a lot and I think that you're probably right about the core mechanics of the game being at fault so I'd just suggest that the amount of lords that attack Wales be limited to just enough to have an army of around 700-900 troops rather than the 1500-1700 they seem to attack with now. They'd still crush the Welsh completely (like they did) but atleast if the player had enough skill and planning they could fight the English off long enough to stabilise the Welsh so they could counterattack.

Ok, this is going to sound like tooting my own horn again....but if you use some of the Txt tweaks I posted..it's doable for Welsh.

So, when "Bohemond Chesne" spoke of giving Lords some different skills, he was spot on! 

-If you utilize the "level up your lords and change their equipment" Tweak...you'll usually find that Lords are ready to level up by 1 or sometimes even 2 (depends on how long the game has progressed )

You can put that 2 into Intelligence and it will give you 4 to spread around in attributes.  I put at least 1 in surgery, wound treatment and 2 into path-finding.    So less of their soldiers die in battle, they heal up faster and they can run away or catch enemies more effectively. 

-  If you use the tweak to up your chances for capturing a Lord.  (You must also have prisoner mgmt btw) You can capture and hold many lords.  That would weaken them.  I've noticed that as a Welsh vassal fighting the English that most of the Lords across the channel (in France basically), only occasionally cross over. 

- Don't forget to also experiment with Manpower.


- In some games...The English are fighting too many enemies...that's the time to strike and hold their lords.
      When they travel in groups,  even if you can't see far behind their group...search for the King or others lords who are a little slower behind the main assault force.  Usually, the slower lord (or king) has a bigger party...he is also by himself when you attack.  Do that and capture them early on.  If you pick off as many stragglers as you can...you can weaken the assault...then go and join in a defense.  If you succeed there...you can pretty much  imprison most of their Lords.   

Sounds a good place to start 

Oh Yeah Arnox,

Another way to weaken the English or any faction for that matter...is the use the tweak:  To join a battle with just about anybody (attackers or defenders)

This is useful because under normal circumstances...you would not be able to join in if you didn't have negative relations.  In this manner you can kind of fight as a neutral Mercenary and weaken your enemies (English).

- Then when you join the Welsh you'll be in a better position.

That's what's fun about this game...you can get creative. 

It don't matter if you put in 1-2 or even 3 towns to the Welsh. A town will have 250-300 defenders + lords army around 250-300. In total you would have around 500-600 defenders while England is going in groups of 6-7 lords and number around 1200 man. Either they will lose all soldiers or they will starve if siege lasts long enough. Even if the city manages to defend it self once, England will probably attack within the same month and conquer it.
If you read my post about Eu : 120 soldiers want to defend invasion force of 10 lords I think it was. Even if you as player with 100+ came there is no way you can defend it. I play on high difficulty and I can solo conquer with my own army of 200 man (good trained) a city of 300+. Now imagine what a castle of 120 half trained can make...
I already suggested that,if possible, moders somehow forbid AI going to siege with more than 4-5 lords. The number of a beasiging army should be 2.5x bigger tops. exmp.: castle 100 siege army 250 tops. By doing it would make the game more playable from gamers perspective,as I already stated that.

I have played this Mod no lie, at least a hundred hours (most likely hundreds  ) especially when you add all the testing for tweaks and I can say I have a pretty good handle of this mod.  Btw, I also play on highest difficulty with max damage.

My observations on what Serbian Conqueror said:

Even if the city manages to defend it self once, England will probably attack within the same month and conquer it.

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This is true but it depends on how many opponents England is facing.  If they are fighting on many fronts you can do allot of gorilla tactics to weaken them    Even without tweaks ( default  E1200) you can still capture and hold a few lords... the more the better.  I've done it...as a Scottish vassal that attacked and helped out the Welsh whenever I could.  I took allot of bad relations and suffered honor loss but still...England had to pay for it's crimes.  Haha

If you read my post about Eu : 120 soldiers want to defend invasion force of 10 lords I think it was. Even if you as player with 100+ came there is no way you can defend it. I play on high difficulty and I can solo conquer with my own army of 200 man (good trained) a city of 300+. Now imagine what a castle of 120 half trained can make...

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Interesting...If I understand your example, you're saying that if 120 soldiers want to defend against 10 lords (100 troops each and that is Low by most lord averages...) about 1000 >>  Even if you as player with 100+ came there is no way you can defend it. 

=  That's about 220 vs a Low estimate 1000 or about a 22% resistance force.  You're definitely correct if it's an AI fight calculation.  For the most part this may be true when you as a player are lower to mid levels. 

BUT.....by the time you're:
- at around 30th level  (with high renown you should be able to field close to 200...more if you're a king)
- have at least 20 or more of the companion hero's, well skilled and well equipped, with also at least 5 training skill...because it stacks
- and you have a good supply of higher tier troops...like tennants for infantry and Lots of pavise crossbowman

You can make a huge difference...and when you take personal charge of defending, you can beat some incredible odds then.  I've beaten almost a 2000 man force attacking me when I have only 500.  But I did have mostly high level troops defending...that's true. 

I already suggested that,if possible, moders somehow forbid AI going to siege with more than 4-5 lords. The number of a beasiging army should be 2.5x bigger tops. exmp.: castle 100 siege army 250 tops. By doing it would make the game more playable from gamers perspective,as I already stated that.

Click to expand...

I don't see this as reasonable.  Imagine a huge faction like the HRE...and then they can only attack a small castle with a handful of lords.  It would weaken the game.  I find it down right scary when I see a huge mass of HRE lords going after an opponent and they have close to 2000 troops. 

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Bonus stuff:

Lastly...you have to really find which cultures offer the best troops for you're style of play.

1) in most cases when you hire Town Militia's and you turn them into "Veteran Xbowman" they suck up close and most don't have shields.  But if you get Genoese Militia...they have BOARD SHIELDS when they become Veteran Xbowmen! Which makes them last much longer and they're cheap to train.

2) Brigand Captains.  I've pointed out in the past that Brigand Captains are damn tough and they also have the only armor in the game that is 70 to the breastplate. 

= I love capturing and recruiting Brig.Capts for my defense forces. 
Here's how I do it: 

Subitai said:

I don't see this as reasonable.  Imagine a huge faction like the HRE...and then they can only attack a small castle with a handful of lords.  It would weaken the game.  I find it down right scary when I see a huge mass of HRE lords going after an opponent and they have close to 2000 troops.

Click to expand...

Not to mention this would (or at least could) mean that the HRE and the other great factions would actually expand way more rapidly, because instead of all lords going against a single castle at once, they'd have their lords going after 5 or more castles at once. Also, this could lead to a huge exploit by the player - leave only 5-10 troops in the castle and no lord would be able to attack you, because no one has as *small* an army as that. Not to mention what would the AI do if the attackers exceed the limit by one soldier (say, f.e., he's healed while preparing for the assault) - an entire lord's army would have to leave, thus actually making it even more easier for the defender, or what?

In my opinion, the varying factions are like varying levels of difficulty: if you want an easy game - play as a vassal of the HRE, England, Byzantium etc; if you want to play on Iron Man mode - go for Wales, Arber, the Rhodopes etc.
Though, of course, maybe the Welsh should also get the ambush ability, like the Irish? Or it's not historically accurate enough?

In my game England take 2 capitals from France and toulise(sorry if i spelled it wrong) have taken 1.
Order of Santigo has taken Barcelona(after almahads have taken it)
England is not Focused on Scotland and Scotland not focused on England or Norway.
Kingdom of Poland looks like it will be strong if they had war (never saw their war yet...)
Holy Roman Empire is good but not that many Campaigns...
The best one i have seen is Almohads and aragon (they both have been fighting taking cities from each other...