Huh, if you're playing Necro you should have enough relation with the Delthersam to recruit Dark Mages at The Obsidian Spire I suppose ? My only character is a Necromancer and I actually spammed Dark Mage recruiting as soon as I enlisted as a mercenary for the Empire (which was at like day 10). Remember in this mod you can recruit some kind of troops in the towns if you have good enough relations with that faction. For me I think it's only Bleeding Throat Clan and Delthersam Empire so I have no clue if other factions also have "non-faction" (i.e., can't be gotten from normal villager advancement, because one could argue that the Dark Mages are part of the faction since they end up as Liches after all) troops recruitable from their towns.
Oh cool I didn't know that, thanks. However, I'm usually unaffiliated as a necromancer. I like to go the way of the village-burning, corpse-stealing, empire-building, take-over-the-world necromancer. I don't think evil magic users should be monopolized by the Drow and the Delthersam.
Well, to each his own obviously. :p I like the concept of having an actual undead civilization personally (though the only really good cases of that I can think of right now are Planescape Torment and the Might&Magic universe, arguably Warcraft lore as well). Also, from a more pragmatic point of view, I don't have enough playtime these days to bother with all the hassle that comes from building your own empire and stuff in M&B, be it in Phantasy or other mods.
Well, to each his own obviously. :p I like the concept of having an actual undead civilization personally (though the only really good cases of that I can think of right now are Planescape Torment and the Might&Magic universe, arguably Warcraft lore as well). Also, from a more pragmatic point of view, I don't have enough playtime these days to bother with all the hassle that comes from building your own empire and stuff in M&B, be it in Phantasy or other mods.
I understand and you're correct, to each his own . And in conjunction with your point of view, for those of us who don't have time to click to spawn 10 zombies every 2 game days at camp, the dev should consider allowing us to raise a larger amount of undead at once at a graveyard or tomb or something. (at least that's my thought on it)
Well, to each his own obviously. :p I like the concept of having an actual undead civilization personally (though the only really good cases of that I can think of right now are Planescape Torment and the Might&Magic universe, arguably Warcraft lore as well). Also, from a more pragmatic point of view, I don't have enough playtime these days to bother with all the hassle that comes from building your own empire and stuff in M&B, be it in Phantasy or other mods.
I understand and you're correct, to each his own . And in conjunction with your point of view, for those of us who don't have time to click to spawn 10 zombies every 2 game days at camp, the dev should consider allowing us to raise a larger amount of undead at once at a graveyard or tomb or something. (at least that's my thought on it)
What about the ability to build a mausoleum instead of a manor at owned villages? This would remove the ability to "rest" at the village but would instead allow you to use necromancy to raise a number of undead dependent upon your skill. Like, say... 3x your necromancy skill. This would give a necromancy-focused Kingdom some flavor and a useful mechanic for raising large armies. This could also just replace the recruiting for that village in its entirety, so that you raise units based on your necromancy and relation with that village, if that is more desirable.
A thought on honor or whatever should help power paladin abilities...we often run across a lord raiding a village. Shouldn't defending helpless civilians be the sort of thing a paladin would do assuming the village isn't orc/drow/undead?
For convenience sake, the charm person spell should knock out anyone who's under it's effects at the end of the battle. If you fight 70 guys and charm 2 of them, and those 2 guys survive, you have to fight them again in a second wave right after the first battle.
And on the topic of undead, having any amount of dark mages in your party completely negates the morale penalties of undead. You lose 10 points for having zombies, you gain 10 from having mages. As long as you don't have other evil troops, you can recruit all the top tier faction troops you want.
Alright, I have a few things about the undead stuff.
A: When you are fighting clerics of any ability, they literally RAPE your army. I get that that turn undead should be in the game, period, but can we nerf it a smidgin so that the undead have a chance against the Blazing Hand?
B: WHY THE **** ARE MY DARK MAGES UPSET ABOUT ME HAVING MUMMIES!?!?!?!? ANYONE?
Being able to Execute or Sacrifice prisoners that Kill/Convert prisoners into Undead of your choice and have them be part of your army.(Lords excluded)
Have another option when attacking a Village, where you can surround the village with your Undead army and have them Kill/Convert them into Undead of your choice and force them under your control for your army against their will.
A starting Necro staff, a weaker version of the actual Necro Staff, but still have the same power of the Necro Staff, just weaker, because i have found that 5 Shadows from the start can and will rebel against you if you pick a fight early on, which basically means you are running a 4 man part, and maybe less because they normally kill 1 of your shadows and at the very minimum distract them long enough for the enemy to get close enough.
More Variety of Necro Staffs, since there are many different types of Staff's that could be used, and hopefully a Large Scythe as a Necro Staff, asif you are the Angel of Death.
A variety of weapons on a Tier system like Quality. Example:
-Common.
-Rare.
-Legendary.
Allowing players to be able to slowly upgrade to the ultimate items Tier by Tier, instead of just going to the Three Ways Inn and buying the best stuff.
And would allow all Units, not just the players, to be able to use them, without being overpowered.
Treasure Hunting, which could be tied into the Tier weapons system with different quality Treasure Maps, and add more variety of things to do, instead of War and Quests, even though Treasure Hunting could possibly be a Quest given by a new NPC in a Tavern, and or display like the "Find Bandit Camp" kinda quest, hopefully with a Ruins/Abandoned Temple icon on the map instead of the camp.
Body Parts/Organs as Food items for Undead, which could be sold by the Food shop in the undead Market Place, and or Gathered from Loot after a battle.
An Undead Evil type Golem, hopefully/possibly being able to build them with Body parts linked to being able to take body parts from loot after battles.
Vampire and Werewolf type monsters/units.
-Vampires with Life steal and mesmerizing enemies into their allies, and biting enemies to convert them into vampires that will join their forces, or yours if you have a few vamps.
-Werewolfs with Brutal melee combat, super speed and running and leaping around the battle feed like pouncing, and biting enemies or clawing/slashing enemies that will convert the enemy into a werewolf that will join their army or yours if you have werewolfs.
New Lichdom type rituals, that will let players of any class or specific class's become a Vampire or Werewolf, with maybe new spells and abilities and passives.
Cures for Lichdom type spells and cures for hopefully new Lichdom type spells.
Army placement changes, towards the middle fo the game, when you have 70+ in army size, the starting of the battle is just 1 big clump of units where it's kind of annoying to organize them into formation, like having your cavalry getting stuck behind the foot soldiers, and trying to get them out as well as the ranged units.
-I know there was a mod created to handle this, i have not tested this, but have seen people talk about it, seems like what im talking about here.
Is there going to be some changes to Necromancy in the future? to increase the Evil aspect and be a scary enemy, especially while playing as them.
Pretty much talking purely with playing as a Necro
Seems with each update it becomes harder and harder for the Necro to be viable, especially in the early stages of the game.
If Shadows become weaker during the day while being Stronger at night, will there be any changes to the movement speed with Traveling at Night-time for them? and even movement in a battle?
And will they have less chance to Rebel on the Necro at night time? or will Night-time be a scary situation for the Necro to lose control of his Shadows or undead in general, kinda seems odd.
I have watched alot of the LP videos, and all of the Necro players get to a certain stage in the game, then either have to re-make or will get nuked by an enemy with clerics, and all of them who did "Lichdom"(which is awesome) have always been nuked quickly in a fight by faith using units, regardless of if it's day or night.
So will Cleric powers be weaker at night against Undead/Evil?
Even when i played as a Necro, when i finally worked up my strength and ability to support a strong army, half of them could be almost instantly get killed by a couple of Clerics with an AOE.
And that goes for the top Tier of upgraded Shadows, just 1 spell and gone.
So having those Undead weaker during the day would cripple a Necro, and then Cripple them again at night by having the slowed night-time movement speed.
I hope this doesn't come across as a doom&gloom reply, i really don't mean it to be.
I can totally see the benefits of the Evil is weaker during the day, and stronger at night, makes Sieges and Village raids at night-time a really fun thing.
I think what im talking about might belong in a suggestion thread or feedback or something, im not sure if it is or not.
I'd like to address the cleric powers since I play so often with them; I have tested against them as well.
Let's start with one of the most powerful abilities the cleric has access to: Turn Undead
Turn undead is balanced for the player by ONLY being usable around once a day. Which means if you get in fights multiple times a day, you won't have access to said spell (also kind of lore specific as you'd only have a certain amount of turns per day). In context it seems quite balancing, but that's before you factor in the regularity of battles in the game. Yes, there are several instances where you will have multiple battles in a day; HOWEVER, it's even more common to have a few battles every day or couple of days and that not all of your battles will include undead. So there is some problem with this frequency of the ability. The power of the ability makes sense, because it is a very useful spell and it is supposed to be the "Oh no, I have to use my nuke!" button.
The Real Problem - Enemy Clerics
What becomes a real problem is playing against the clerics when leading an army. The other undead vassals recuperate their vast undead losses after you turn undead them, but players are not able to regen their high tier troops that they lost as quickly. ESPECIALLY early on, when you are unable to summon 50 undead to make up (for a short time) the loss of your 10 high tier ones. What can be even worse is that I am unsure of the enemy's use of turn undead. Is it scripted? Does it have the same parameters of use as the turn undead for the player? Do they use their turn undead in other fights; Is that even trackable to make sure it is used when it is needed? These are the questions and some small things that can cause Necromancers to have a real trouble starting. After they get a few points into necromancy this is almost negligible in the long run.
I would like to talk about the negligibility of losing your high tier units as a necromancer real quick: Constantly I read that people were losing their high tier units as a necromancer much quicker because of this turn undead nuke, and while I agree it is a pain - It's part of the necromancer. Yes, you will lose a lot more of your high tiered units on a more common basis, but always remember your ability to regen ridiculous numbers override that. I know, I know. It's not a great feeling to see a flood of yellow and red text constantly, but you must realize that no matter what you lose, your supplies are infinite both in terms of getting high tier troops and in getting the fodder you can raise. The difference is that Necromancers can summon the fodder to hold them over while they rebuild the high tier units they lost. You will constantly have less high tiered troops than others of the equivalent, but you can easily offset this balance by generating 50 to take their place until you are reset.
This brings me up to my second point about necromancers - Party size. Party Size is in important in warband, but as a necromancer it is critical. It is because of your constant loss of high tiered troops and massive death rate of your undead that it is needed to get a high party number. You CAN play a necromancer that uses only higher tiered units, but you will lose out one of your biggest strengths, which is the ability to throw masses of undead at an enemy group, lose half of it, then right after the battle raise more and blitzkrieg. It is a goal to get as many high tiered units as possible, BUT the way necromancers go about obtaining them is by using fodder they throw around until the tiered units have time to relevel.
Is there going to be some changes to Necromancy in the future? to increase the Evil aspect and be a scary enemy, especially while playing as them.
Pretty much talking purely with playing as a Necro
Seems with each update it becomes harder and harder for the Necro to be viable, especially in the early stages of the game.
If Shadows become weaker during the day while being Stronger at night, will there be any changes to the movement speed with Traveling at Night-time for them? and even movement in a battle?
And will they have less chance to Rebel on the Necro at night time? or will Night-time be a scary situation for the Necro to lose control of his Shadows or undead in general, kinda seems odd.
I have watched alot of the LP videos, and all of the Necro players get to a certain stage in the game, then either have to re-make or will get nuked by an enemy with clerics, and all of them who did "Lichdom"(which is awesome) have always been nuked quickly in a fight by faith using units, regardless of if it's day or night.
So will Cleric powers be weaker at night against Undead/Evil?
Even when i played as a Necro, when i finally worked up my strength and ability to support a strong army, half of them could be almost instantly get killed by a couple of Clerics with an AOE.
And that goes for the top Tier of upgraded Shadows, just 1 spell and gone.
So having those Undead weaker during the day would cripple a Necro, and then Cripple them again at night by having the slowed night-time movement speed.
I hope this doesn't come across as a doom&gloom reply, i really don't mean it to be.
I can totally see the benefits of the Evil is weaker during the day, and stronger at night, makes Sieges and Village raids at night-time a really fun thing.
I think what im talking about might belong in a suggestion thread or feedback or something, im not sure if it is or not.
I'd like to address the cleric powers since I play so often with them; I have tested against them as well.
Let's start with one of the most powerful abilities the cleric has access to: Turn Undead
Turn undead is balanced for the player by ONLY being usable around once a day. Which means if you get in fights multiple times a day, you won't have access to said spell (also kind of lore specific as you'd only have a certain amount of turns per day). In context it seems quite balancing, but that's before you factor in the regularity of battles in the game. Yes, there are several instances where you will have multiple battles in a day; HOWEVER, it's even more common to have a few battles every day or couple of days and that not all of your battles will include undead. So there is some problem with this frequency of the ability. The power of the ability makes sense, because it is a very useful spell and it is supposed to be the "Oh no, I have to use my nuke!" button.
The Real Problem - Enemy Clerics
What becomes a real problem is playing against the clerics when leading an army. The other undead vassals recuperate their vast undead losses after you turn undead them, but players are not able to regen their high tier troops that they lost as quickly. ESPECIALLY early on, when you are unable to summon 50 undead to make up (for a short time) the loss of your 10 high tier ones. What can be even worse is that I am unsure of the enemy's use of turn undead. Is it scripted? Does it have the same parameters of use as the turn undead for the player? Do they use their turn undead in other fights; Is that even trackable to make sure it is used when it is needed? These are the questions and some small things that can cause Necromancers to have a real trouble starting. After they get a few points into necromancy this is almost negligible in the long run.
I would like to talk about the negligibility of losing your high tier units as a necromancer real quick: Constantly I read that people were losing their high tier units as a necromancer much quicker because of this turn undead nuke, and while I agree it is a pain - It's part of the necromancer. Yes, you will lose a lot more of your high tiered units on a more common basis, but always remember your ability to regen ridiculous numbers override that. I know, I know. It's not a great feeling to see a flood of yellow and red text constantly, but you must realize that no matter what you lose, your supplies are infinite both in terms of getting high tier troops and in getting the fodder you can raise. You will constantly have less high tiered troops than others of the equivalent, but you can easily offset this balance by generating 50 to take their place.
This brings me up to my second point about necromancers - Party size. Party Size is in important in warband, but as a necromancer it is critical. It is because of your constant loss of high tiered troops and massive death rate of your undead that it is needed to get a high party number. You CAN play a necromancer that uses only higher tiered units, but you will lose out one of your biggest strengths, which is the ability to throw masses of undead at an enemy group, lose half of it, then right after the battle raise more and blitzkrieg.
My experience is a little different.
Because you need to work up to go and buy the Necro staff, or else you can't regenerate that many and use them effectively.. expect them to either leave within that day or half turn on you in the next battle.
The undead will still leave.. regardless of your Necromancy.. but based on Morale, they may also just flip out and turn on your in battle aswell, so double problem.
And then suffer the insta-gib from a Cleric, who seem to only use the spell against a player, even if 3minutes before hand they fought 3 groups of Shadows.. asif they didn't use it at all...
Have seen this happen, asif they get the "Turn Undead" spell back just to fight the player, or they didn't use it.. making Assassinations of Holy groups almost undo-able if they auto-counter you by getting a free cast of a spell that wipes out every undead around them, per battle.
And that's not mentioning that Smite spell.. i can't remember what it's call right now..
Where as a Lich, after running the Lichdom trials.. they can almost 1shot you.. or actually do 1shot you..
I can't regenerate 50+ troops in a fight, unless im fighting [Army VS Army] and majority of the time i won't ever summon close to the amount of troops that were killed in the fight.
And even then, i would have lost more than i gained, so spreading the evil across the land basically consists of running back to safety each big fight to lick wounds and wait a few days to summon more, or limp/crawl around picking off bandit groups slowly gaining them and biding time till summoning more.
And im not sure why Undead require a Money upkeep.. when they are meant to be minions who bend to the Necros will, unless i don't have the Evil Godly Necro Staff of anti-undead-willpower, where they will just go zerker and start attacking the player and his army.
I understand the use of having an Undead Death wave of mashable guys to soften up the enemy at the start, it is what i do.. you can't not do it..
And it is kind of pain alot of the time once you have a fair few units.. because of the BLOB of units you have to organize at the start of every battle.
That is the whole strategy of Necro.. use the dead you summon after each battle, to be the hammer that hits first. but it won't save your Elite undead units.. because the Clerics don't always trigger "Turn Undead" when they are surrounded by the first wave of undead.
I have tested this.. i waited for a long time to flank this Burning Hand group with my Shadow Knights, and the fight was almost over.. so i sent in my Knights.. and the 1 cleric left killed them all..
Even though he had Zombies and Skeles all around him for pretty much the entire fight.. he still waited till the final moments to use his ability.. which would have probably helped his army dramatically earlyer on.
A group of shabby clerics who have access to Turn Undead, can kill a group of the Top Tier elite squad of Undead.. a 1v1 or equal amount on both sides.. the Clerics will win.
Which is fine i think, it should be how it is.
I would love to see new Undead units for Necro.
Like death shamans for each type like zombie/skele/shadow.. who open a portal which summon more Undead units to spew out at the army.
But not permanent units.. they would die after 2 minutes or so of battle and would not be keepable to put into your army.
If you have an LP of a person playing a Necro from start to finish where he conquerors everything, i would love the link to watch it, because so far.. NONE.. No-one.. has ever done that..
They always get so far.. then are just nuked back to oblivion.
I could be playing Necro wrong, so im curious to see someone play them, but im pretty sure i have spent lots of time watching the videos while playing to have watched everyone who has posted the videos on playing a necro..
And their next video is almost always them playing as a Cleric...
Hmm those are some interesting findings about the AI's use of turn undead. I may not notice the AI's tendencies as much because of the way I move my army around on the tactical battlefield.
NOTE: I treat them similar to you, but right after my fodder hit the lines my main normally follows right on the tail. When Turn undead hits normally a lot of my fodder takes the hit, and only a couple decent units are taken out. While I have had times where they really decimate my high tier units; it is a lot less common than just seeing floods of text with fodder units and some decent ones.
I'll try and space out my waves of undead a bit more to see if it's just the turn undead clicking off when a certain number of X level units (or maybe a surrounding group has X level worth?) surround them.
As for new units for the undead I'd happily agree! Mini summoning from things like Necromancer units or death shamans/cultist would really add to the feel of the swarm. The Corpse Golem made by Levity99x shows promise, and I feel it could bring a needed change of unit composition to the undead side.
Hmm those are some interesting findings about the AI's use of turn undead. I may not notice the AI's tendencies as much because of the way I move my army around on the tactical battlefield.
NOTE: I treat them similar to you, but right after my fodder hit the lines my main normally follows right on the tail. When Turn undead hits normally a lot of my fodder takes the hit, and only a couple decent units are taken out. While I have had times where they really decimate my high tier units; it is a lot less common than just seeing floods of text with fodder units and some decent ones.
I'll try and space out my waves of undead a bit more to see if it's just the turn undead clicking off when a certain number of X level units (or maybe a surrounding group has X level worth?) surround them.
As for new units for the undead I'd happily agree! Mini summoning from things like Necromancer units or death shamans/cultist would really add to the feel of the swarm. The Corpse Golem made by Levity99x shows promise, and I feel it could bring a needed change of unit composition to the undead side.
I feel like i spend the same amount of time setting up my army into formation before the fight starts, because of the blob placement.
And i do move them around tactically, but half the time the enemy just B-lines across the side of the map into the wall and gets stuck, so i try to get into the battle before it turns into some AI fail situation, which isn't the mods fault, i noticed it alot in Native with no mods.
Think it's got something to do with them trying to flank on a smaller map size, because sometimes the map size and where the enemy gets placed allows them to do the flanking and it works without them getting invisi-wall screwd.
Yeah i used to have the fodder hit first, then my actual army hit right after, like i was layering a sandwich, but found i need to wait a short time for it to actually be effective, either way the fodder would almost always be wiped or be reduced to a handful of troops.
But with testing, i found that the Turn Undead, the triggers don't seem to work right, like realistic.. or there is a hindsight trigger that the clerics have to be like "oh maybe i should have used it sooner, because now im the only 1 left and surrounded.. ok wth.. ill just use it now since im dead anyway".
I have no problems with how the Cleric part works though, i just feel the Necro Undead playstyle is weaker with more drawbacks, and with the each suggestion or comment about what changes might happen i feel they might be getting neglected slightly, especially toward late game when everyone has mass Clerics or Anti-Undead units, forcing the Necro to always use a mix of units that will also conflict with other things, like morale.
With all evil in everything.. from buffy/angel.. to lord of the rings.. or whatever.. the Evil always have some ultimate evil plan.. like a secret nuke they're building in a secret HQ where they will threaten the world with destruction unless they pay 1billion dollars.. Austin Powers style..
But there isn't anything like that in this mod yet, or any ultimate super evil thing that will turn the war in their favor.
Personally i would like to see the Lichdom "CONS" completely removed, or reworked to be evil.. and not something that will make you an easy target.
There are a few things that could balance out undead, like in one of the posts above.
awkwarrd said:
Couple of Suggestions for Necro and Undead.
Being able to Execute or Sacrifice prisoners that Kill/Convert prisoners into Undead of your choice and have them be part of your army.(Lords excluded)
Have another option when attacking a Village, where you can surround the village with your Undead army and have them Kill/Convert them into Undead of your choice and force them under your control for your army against their will.
A starting Necro staff, a weaker version of the actual Necro Staff, but still have the same power of the Necro Staff, just weaker, because i have found that 5 Shadows from the start can and will rebel against you if you pick a fight early on, which basically means you are running a 4 man part, and maybe less because they normally kill 1 of your shadows and at the very minimum distract them long enough for the enemy to get close enough.
More Variety of Necro Staffs, since there are many different types of Staff's that could be used, and hopefully a Large Scythe as a Necro Staff, asif you are the Angel of Death.
A variety of weapons on a Tier system like Quality. Example:
-Common.
-Rare.
-Legendary.
Allowing players to be able to slowly upgrade to the ultimate items Tier by Tier, instead of just going to the Three Ways Inn and buying the best stuff.
And would allow all Units, not just the players, to be able to use them, without being overpowered.
Treasure Hunting, which could be tied into the Tier weapons system with different quality Treasure Maps, and add more variety of things to do, instead of War and Quests, even though Treasure Hunting could possibly be a Quest given by a new NPC in a Tavern, and or display like the "Find Bandit Camp" kinda quest, hopefully with a Ruins/Abandoned Temple icon on the map instead of the camp.
Body Parts/Organs as Food items for Undead, which could be sold by the Food shop in the undead Market Place, and or Gathered from Loot after a battle.
An Undead Evil type Golem, hopefully/possibly being able to build them with Body parts linked to being able to take body parts from loot after battles.
Vampire and Werewolf type monsters/units.
-Vampires with Life steal and mesmerizing enemies into their allies, and biting enemies to convert them into vampires that will join their forces, or yours if you have a few vamps.
-Werewolfs with Brutal melee combat, super speed and running and leaping around the battle feed like pouncing, and biting enemies or clawing/slashing enemies that will convert the enemy into a werewolf that will join their army or yours if you have werewolfs.
New Lichdom type rituals, that will let players of any class or specific class's become a Vampire or Werewolf, with maybe new spells and abilities and passives.
Cures for Lichdom type spells and cures for hopefully new Lichdom type spells.
Army placement changes, towards the middle fo the game, when you have 70+ in army size, the starting of the battle is just 1 big clump of units where it's kind of annoying to organize them into formation, like having your cavalry getting stuck behind the foot soldiers, and trying to get them out as well as the ranged units.
-I know there was a mod created to handle this, i have not tested this, but have seen people talk about it, seems like what im talking about here.
But this is coming from me, who has watched every LP and youtube video about this mod in regards to the Necro.
And im yet to see or talk to anyone who has ever conquered the world as a Necro.
Mostly it comes down to Luck.
I used to play pure Necro until the blazing hand destroyed me way too many times, I can say with utmost certainty that clerics(not just the Blazing Hand's clerics, ALL Clerics) are overpowered for the current necromancer/undead mechanics...hell, Blazing Hand can wipe out any other faction(unless it's an autobattle and even then, they don't lose too many men/women) because they're nothing but clerics and cavalry, full on wave of their Flame strike alone(it's been a while, and the beginner's guide doesn't mention it anymore other than in the faith skill listing rather than the faith abilities/spells list, does it still exist?) could destroy an entire perfectly balanced army, hell with their magic resistance they can crush an army supported by mages even because magic does like 1 damage at best to them unless you spammed magic missile and managed to get through their armor every time. Honestly I'm thinking about trying necro out again, but I wont be doing any videos, for the simple fact that I'll most def get steam rolled by the Blazing Hand again...
I used to play pure Necro until the blazing hand destroyed me way too many times, I can say with utmost certainty that clerics(not just the Blazing Hand's clerics, ALL Clerics) are overpowered for the current necromancer/undead mechanics...hell, Blazing Hand can wipe out any other faction(unless it's an autobattle and even then, they don't lose too many men/women) because they're nothing but clerics and cavalry, full on wave of their Flame strike alone(it's been a while, and the beginner's guide doesn't mention it anymore other than in the faith skill listing rather than the faith abilities/spells list, does it still exist?) could destroy an entire perfectly balanced army, hell with their magic resistance they can crush an army supported by mages even because magic does like 1 damage at best to them unless you spammed magic missile and managed to get through their armor every time. Honestly I'm thinking about trying necro out again, but I wont be doing any videos, for the simple fact that I'll most def get steam rolled by the Blazing Hand again...
Well yeah.. the Clerics should get a "Win" button, because Necro should be stronger, they are neglected, which you can see right from the start of the game, when the 5 shadows you get.. in the very first fight..(not the 1 npc you kill in the quest tutorial) 1 will break from your control and attack you.. and that can happen down to 2 shadows.. from around 3 Necro skill, you only get 1 Necro skill from picking Necro class, which forces you to cheat with the import character option, just so you can get the start that a Necro should get.
Because the Necro staff is 30,000 gold.. and the aim of the first purchase for any Necro, because otherwise you will keep losing Undead units without it.
I had to go and edit my Units today to add some Strategy to them, Shadows were basically a transparent swiss-army knife running into battle, gave the first rank of Shadows a Mace, so capturing prisoners was a thing a Necro could finally do, but after that first shadow upgrade, it was all kill kill kill weapons.
Also added the Upgrading for Skeles and Zombies, because it should be that way.
Also upgraded the Shadow Assassin.. because he was almost useless, and gave him the ability to upgrade to a Balrog, which seemed really good.
Until everything started to have massive Morale issues, simply because nothing likes hell units in their army.. even if you are evil with only evil units.. they don't care.. they will start leaving your army.. asif they were not mind controlled by an all powerful evil necromancer..
Hope that's a bug that can be fixed.
I did test with adding More health and less damage to the Shadow Warrior and Greater Warrior, just to see if they could handle the Clerics, they didn't do well against them still, but the Assassins were able to take out a couple of Clerics before he was insta-killed.
Either way i feel the Necro also suffers bigtime from Morale issues with the "Good Vs Evil" system Phantasy has, not sure it was tested thoroughly.
I used to play pure Necro until the blazing hand destroyed me way too many times, I can say with utmost certainty that clerics(not just the Blazing Hand's clerics, ALL Clerics) are overpowered for the current necromancer/undead mechanics...hell, Blazing Hand can wipe out any other faction(unless it's an autobattle and even then, they don't lose too many men/women) because they're nothing but clerics and cavalry, full on wave of their Flame strike alone(it's been a while, and the beginner's guide doesn't mention it anymore other than in the faith skill listing rather than the faith abilities/spells list, does it still exist?) could destroy an entire perfectly balanced army, hell with their magic resistance they can crush an army supported by mages even because magic does like 1 damage at best to them unless you spammed magic missile and managed to get through their armor every time. Honestly I'm thinking about trying necro out again, but I wont be doing any videos, for the simple fact that I'll most def get steam rolled by the Blazing Hand again...
Well yeah.. the Clerics should get a "Win" button, because Necro should be stronger, they are neglected, which you can see right from the start of the game, when the 5 shadows you get.. in the very first fight..(not the 1 npc you kill in the quest tutorial) 1 will break from your control and attack you.. and that can happen down to 2 shadows.. from around 3 Necro skill, you only get 1 Necro skill from picking Necro class, which forces you to cheat with the import character option, just so you can get the start that a Necro should get.
Because the Necro staff is 30,000 gold.. and the aim of the first purchase for any Necro, because otherwise you will keep losing Undead units without it.
I had to go and edit my Units today to add some Strategy to them, Shadows were basically a transparent swiss-army knife running into battle, gave the first rank of Shadows a Mace, so capturing prisoners was a thing a Necro could finally do, but after that first shadow upgrade, it was all kill kill kill weapons.
Also added the Upgrading for Skeles and Zombies, because it should be that way.
Also upgraded the Shadow Assassin.. because he was almost useless, and gave him the ability to upgrade to a Balrog, which seemed really good.
Until everything started to have massive Morale issues, simply because nothing likes hell units in their army.. even if you are evil with only evil units.. they don't care.. they will start leaving your army.. asif they were not mind controlled by an all powerful evil necromancer..
Hope that's a bug that can be fixed.
I did test with adding More health and less damage to the Shadow Warrior and Greater Warrior, just to see if they could handle the Clerics, they didn't do well against them still, but the Assassins were able to take out a couple of Clerics before he was insta-killed.
Either way i feel the Necro also suffers bigtime from Morale issues with the "Good Vs Evil" system Phantasy has, not sure it was tested thoroughly.
Well I never had issues with morale, just kept non-perishable foods and used entertain like every other character has to do, if you use pure undead units and all companions(personally I slowly convert them into death knights and necromancers ) you wont suffer as badly from morale loss, mainly because no one likes undead either, I've yet to find any kind of racial units other than companions that like undead. Oh, also, I wouldn't suggest editing the units, especially making zombies and skeletons upgradable, they should be mindless fodder, though I think when you convert an enemy(end of battle summon) at least it should match their tier/class to some degree, but even fighting a mass battle of about 1k units vs about 100ish undead and some 500ish other faction units that you came to rescue, I've found that I get MAYBE 5 skeletons(base tier) at best. I'd love it if he'd implement a convert/sacrifice option for necromancers in general, maybe when a necromancer recruits a prisoner he can also have an option to sacrifice so many living troops to create undead ones of equal tier/class, but anyways undead are fairly balanced, though yes neglected, they're only balanced if you do indeed import a character that is maxed in necromancy though but I'm not one to import so I'd rather just give it my all without doing that. Oh and on the shadows issue at start for necromancer or using the necromancer staff, it's actually not worth having either, just that +1 to necromancy from the necro start is enough, though I use mage apprentice for spell book. The issue relating to the shadows is that you're getting 5 shadows, which makes it impossible even with +1 to necromancy, whether you put points into it or not. I've put 4 into necromancy and all 5 shadows still rebel in the first fight I did, even had 1 rebel during that first bandit encounter on a fresh necro before you meet the merchant, hell one rebelled when I was in his room, that was entertaining @.@ Also Clerics don't NEED an instant win button since their healing ability already crushes any undead in range....(unless it's been changed which I've seen it still crush undead around them, yay for inbalance!) I still find it FUN to have a group of about 5 clerics instantly kill me while I'm on horseback because they all thought it was a good idea to use flamestrike. I don't think that undead should break free though, unless it's a shadow, let's face it, zombies have no intellect, nor willpower, Mummies I can semi-understand, but skeletons are bones that require a constant stream of magic(I say magic because everyone calls it something else, mana, life force, etc...) to maintain their form. Hell all undead require a necromancer's constant aid in order to maintain themselves, shadows for instance wouldn't be able to continue manifesting themselves without a necromancer giving them a steady supply of magic(yes I just contradicted myself, wanna fight about it?). I do like how when you use the necromancy skills you lose blood to mass a few solid units though, given that necromancy is meant to use one's life energy(aka shave off a few years/months/weeks/days from your life depending on your skill and the amount/type of creature you're raising, case in point an undead dragon would very well take all but a master necromancer's life, where as a lich, whom has eternal life could do so with ease.) to grant corpses unlife, though after that it's just like any other spell, you don't need to feed it your life energy, but instead can supply it with magic(mana, etc...). I will say that if they did make it convert/sacrifice prisoners, we should have to be able to actually kill them in a battle, be it with troops or 1 vs however many, if they win, they get freedom and their life, if they lose, they are converted into undead.
Theres a lot of talk about Necromancers being weak and all, my original suggestion isn't about that but my opinion on it is:
Necromancers take the spirits from the overworld and bind the to their will (shadows). The spirits are controlled by the necros. Necros can also raise corpses to fight (skellys, zombies).
So basically:
PROS
- Undead troops should have no need for upkeep or food, at all.
- When a Player becomes a lich, party size is calculated based on the necromancy skill, maybe combined with magic power, so party size can be massive.
- After every battle the Necro will gain a certain number of troops based on the tier and number of deaths suffered on the enemy side.
- Undead morale should be a constant 50. The necro either controls the undead or it doesnt. Morale could be some sort of. frenzy meter though because it will still affect movement speed.
- Necro wizards you can hire as troops who are basically dark mages who like the undead and help you.
CONS
- Can't hire living troops (you hate the living, you want everything to die)
- The living hate you and attack you whatever you do.
- Can't visit living cities except if you disguise yourself
- And obviously, Cleric powers.
However, the undead should have some super badass terminator unit as well. The knights have super good armor and stuff but..., bamm, turn undead, 347 AoE damage. The armor didn't really help did it?
There should be a giant monster like a massive shadow, like an undead balrog.
Also, what about an AoE spell for the necro? Like soul corruption? Or something that will reanimate all the corpses in an area around the necro? Just something almost as destructive.
Like in Lord of the Rings, the evil peeps pretty much have a massive amount of troops, like an uruk/goblin/orc factory. Then have the super Death Knights who ride on massive flying screeching leeches.
I know the Uruks (the elite orc were called like that right) were pretty strong but they were still beaten to **** by the cavalry.
The point is, the necro should have a **** ton of skeletons, zombies and shadows, which will just get killed immediately anyways, but also beings who arent controlled buy the necro, but are helping him for power and bloodthirst.
My original idea though was about formations. I really hate having to see my infantry line up across the map, can't we at least have ranks? Like, three rows of infantry with polearms at the front against cavalry. Or shieldwall with shielded troops at the front?
The max I can do right now is have a separate division for polearm troops, for 2 hander infantry, and for shield infantry (plus cav, arch, mages, clerics... so on so on) and line them up one after the other which takes way too much time. By the time I finish pressing buttons and holding f1 the demons are pretty much on me already, and I need quick formation changes for the first demony cavalry charge, and then to spread out against the fireballs but still be able to snipe down the balrogs.
The best, best thing would be a feature that allowed for customizing formations, or a tactical pause button/pre-battle positioning where you could position troops than click "ready" for the battle to start. With so many new classes its just very hard for me.
Many od us play as necromancers or evil demons or whatever in Phantasy Calradia. But if you actually behave evilly you won't be able to get lords on your side at all. For example if you always raid villages and always take all you can and attack villagers and so on, you wont be getting honor so its only a drawback. There should be something to counter it, not necessaril dishonor but something to make lords like you when you are evil.
Would be an interesting mechanic if it could be changed that made warmonger lords gain relation with you the more you go into the negative with honor. The ones I'm referring to are those that say "Oh yes, this peace with those-one-guys displeases me." Mainly because when you do their quests you lose honor so why would being honorable attract them in the first place?
That way, not only are you evil but your vassals are essentially evil themselves. The drawback, of course, is making companions vassals. Unless something is done to make a few of them evil as well, your companions will not be very fun vassals to have if you go that route.
Yeah, like orcs value strength in battle and how many people you've killed an so on. Maybe relation with orcs can grow depending on renown or maybe even by razing villages and capturing other lords.
This mod seems to have a lot of good and evil cultures/spells/factions/troops but no lords/faction behaviours to reflect that. It would be really cool if you could basically take paths where each had their advantage.
A fear mechanic could work as well. Every time you defeat a lord and the more powerful you get in general, lords will fear you more and more so lords of the circumstantial kind would want to join you more to save their own asses.
And dishonorable lords could be similar except that they would be loyal to you because they like destroying things and be powerful. And companions just the same, they all have a personality already just like lords.
While the necromancers and the paladins might need some more good vs. evil stuff going on, I really dislike the idea of enforcing the same thing on other factions. You think Harlaus cares about making a pact with the Drow if it can get the Nords off his lawn? This is Calradia. Kings do as they please, alignment system be damned.
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. And in conjunction with your point of view, for those of us who don't have time to click to spawn 10 zombies every 2 game days at camp, the dev should consider allowing us to raise a larger amount of undead at once at a graveyard or tomb or something. (at least that's my thought on it)
