Who is good and who is evil?

Lore question:
Who is good and who is evil?

Ask here: http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,284947.0.html

Alright. Sorry.

Never trust an elf.

Dark_Hamlet said:

Never trust an elf.

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Perisno Elves are different... right?

I would say that Redwoods are kinda evil. I support the Bluewood Elves. 

Michadr said:

Dark_Hamlet said:

Never trust an elf.

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Perisno Elves are different... right?

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Yes. Their blood is different when it slide trough my blade 

There are no good guys. Everyone is evil and the player character is even more evil.

Everyone is just a different shade of evil so i guess it makes sense to assume that the least evil factions are good guys by comparison.

DarkOmegaMK2 said:

There are no good guys. Everyone is evil and the player character is even more evil.

Everyone is just a different shade of evil so i guess it makes sense to assume that the least evil factions are good guys by comparison.

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well good and evil are just subjective concepts that  will never be truly defined

since our whole existance is based on death of other living creatures

so you can say in a way all living creatures from our world are based on evil 

DarkOmegaMK2 said:

There are no good guys. Everyone is evil and the player character is even more evil.

Everyone is just a different shade of evil so i guess it makes sense to assume that the least evil factions are good guys by comparison.

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I like to think that everyone is just a different shade of good 

I love to jump in and aid the Eagle Knights, who are supposedly corrupt, when they fight the Demon Lords.  A few fights like that and the Eagles become quite friendly to me.  They never bother my common folk and act much like strong patrols.

well  i stand by my point of verything being based on evil.

peasants want more land to grow their stuff = take that land from other living creatures = they die/forced out of their place so that the peasants can grow more stuff

nobles want more land = take land from other lords or peasants etc.


both in real life and in virtual life rules at their core are the same 


and going full off-topic: i always had this joke in my mind that good and evil don`t exist beyond subjective concepts

Alex the Seeker said:

DarkOmegaMK2 said:

There are no good guys. Everyone is evil and the player character is even more evil.

Everyone is just a different shade of evil so i guess it makes sense to assume that the least evil factions are good guys by comparison.

Click to expand...

well good and evil are just subjective concepts that  will never be truly defined

since our whole existance is based on death of other living creatures

so you can say in a way all living creatures from our world are based on evil 

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By extention I would be justified to murder/rape and disregard my peers equality to the benefit of myself, and it would give them the same right. As far as I know thats called nihilism.

@crille, isn`t our current society based on this more or less already, thousands of murders/rapes/kidnappings/ppl getting fortunes at the expense of others. (sorry but the world i live in is a dark place "where even demons fear to thread")


(ppl always consider me crazy anyway)

but if some random dude is killed today, and lets say in 10 years future he would  kill hundreds of ppl by bombing an airport or sth.

would then the Murder of him today be justified? would it be a good thing that he died?


also my values of good and evil are twisted compared to most ppl i know, so i might be the one in the wrong here, it would be scary if i would be right tho..

or going even to the extreme, X random woman raped today will produce a baby that would Cure/Invent sth benefiting the whole planet, would that be trully evil?


for some reason i`m always trying to see a bit beyond the definitions that our so called "Civilization" hammered down into us...


altho i`m not sure i`d say the same if someone i care about is raped/murdered, hell i`ll prolly kill the person that did that eitherway  (and yes i know i`m a hypocrit, aren`t we all i wonder  )

Oh sh** i started some controvertial nonsense.

I apologize!

Allow me to end it quickly:

The only real legitimately socially accepted good guys are... the winners.

Why?

Because winners are the ones that write the history.

DarkOmegaMK2 said:

Oh sh** i started some controvertial nonsense.

I apologize!

Allow me to end it quickly:

The only real legitimately socially accepted good guys are... the winners.

Why?

Because winners are the ones that write the history.

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neah was my fault for going fully off-topic 

and  i totaly agree with your statement about winners being the socially accepted good guys, for obvious reasons

''Socially accepted'' and ''winners'' isn't my basis for judging right or wrong.
E.g. I saw a documentary of some african tribes which there was some african tribe dancing ritual where some sick dude started abusing a male kid 6-12 years old sexually (the kid obviously tried to escape), I guess that was ''socially accepted'' and thus morally right.

But I like Off-topic lol
Deep philosophical pondering is so fun.

Crille said:

''Socially accepted'' and ''winners'' isn't my basis for judging right or wrong.
E.g. I saw a documentary of some african tribes which there was some african tribe dancing ritual where some sick dude started abusing a male kid 6-12 years old sexually (the kid obviously tried to escape), I guess that was ''socially accepted'' and thus morally right.

But I like Off-topic lol
Deep philosophical pondering is so fun.

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well that`s why good and evil are mostly subjective concepts...

if you study history most Nations had No Problem with killing other Nations so they can expand their land, get slaves etc. that was not evil for them in those times.
take Rome for example, and the decadence it was in those times, or the Mongols and Genghis Khan which killed around 40 million ppl in his life time (in wars and such).

Was he considered evil by his people? most likely not.
Was he considered evil by those he killed? most likely yes.
so yet again the winners have the final say in everything.

i`m pretty sure even smarter ppl that us have had Good vs Evil debate and still haven`t found the correct answer.
It is like the debate of is the christian god real or it isn`t? - no one knows for sure since there is no clear evidence he either exist or he doesn`t.
(if he does exist tho, does that mean that all the other gods from countless religions exist aswell? )

and yes philosophical pondering is food for a smart mind, since if you don`t ask question about random important/unimportant stuff can you actualy be more than a mindless drone slave to the so called Society?

Was he considered evil by his people? most likely not.
Was he considered evil by those he killed? most likely yes.
so yet again the winners have the final say in everything.

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I like how you said that.
But is their really a correct answer? I mean pretty much every person has a different view of things and there would be on going arguments.

But like you said, it's how people look at a person who then makes judgment if they are evil or good. I think it's easy to make judgment based on how that set person thinks. If they agree with why those people were killed they will obviously not think that he was evil but rather he rid the world of people that are... whats the word... subpar? (maybe).

Alex the Seeker said:

Crille said:

''Socially accepted'' and ''winners'' isn't my basis for judging right or wrong.
E.g. I saw a documentary of some african tribes which there was some african tribe dancing ritual where some sick dude started abusing a male kid 6-12 years old sexually (the kid obviously tried to escape), I guess that was ''socially accepted'' and thus morally right.

But I like Off-topic lol
Deep philosophical pondering is so fun.

Click to expand...

well that`s why good and evil are mostly subjective concepts...

if you study history most Nations had No Problem with killing other Nations so they can expand their land, get slaves etc. that was not evil for them in those times.
take Rome for example, and the decadence it was in those times, or the Mongols and Genghis Khan which killed around 40 million ppl in his life time (in wars and such).

Was he considered evil by his people? most likely not.
Was he considered evil by those he killed? most likely yes.
so yet again the winners have the final say in everything.

i`m pretty sure even smarter ppl that us have had Good vs Evil debate and still haven`t found the correct answer.
It is like the debate of is the christian god real or it isn`t? - no one knows for sure since there is no clear evidence he either exist or he doesn`t.
(if he does exist tho, does that mean that all the other gods from countless religions exist aswell? )

and yes philosophical pondering is food for a smart mind, since if you don`t ask question about random important/unimportant stuff can you actualy be more than a mindless drone slave to the so called Society?

Click to expand...

As far as I know in academical debating there usually are two sides: One claiming a absolute right or wrong derived from God and another claiming a right or wrong derived from society aka subjective.
My point is that a absolute right or wrong is required unless you believe in the logical dilemma a subjective right or wrong view pose; Nihilism, anarchy, absolute selfishness.

Besides, sorry to mean but I think its arrogant to say ''none has found the answer'' like you've read all the litterature from aristotles to present day deductive/inductive reasoning.
Just because the majority of people in our day and time thinks there are no answers (because they're to stubborn and lazy to find them), doesn't mean they're right. 

Crille said:

snip
Besides, sorry to mean but I think its arrogant to say ''none has found the answer'' like you've read all the litterature from aristotles to present day deductive/inductive reasoning.
Just because the majority of people in our day and time thinks there are no answers (because they're to stubborn and lazy to find them), doesn't mean they're right. 

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yes some might have found the truth... i don`t deny that ( i chose a wrong way to say my point)... but is it a Truth that is Objective and it will be accepted by All People? most likely not.

at some point in time people actualy belived the Universe was Orbiting around Earth and that was the Truth of those Times, and needless to say what happened to those that claimed otherwise.

sadly our society is based on the "Collective Truth of the Many" (from my perspective), does that mean that they are right? even if they are many? Most of the times they are utterly wrong, but that is beside the point since Majority > Minority, same as Winners > Losers.

I realized  few years ago, i`m a tiny little being on a huge world, in an teoreticaly infinite universe.
I also realized i see the world completly different from most people i know and i met over the years.
I realized i`m smarter than them academicaly, since it took me very little time to have better academic scores compared to most.
I also realized i`m Stupid, Ignorant and  a big Hypocrit along the way.

I also belive in aliens, since it would be completly arogant of us to think we are the only sentient beings in a teoreticaly infinite universe.
I also belive in entities (similar to gods) that can be in a higher plain of existance than us and are actualy the gods in all religions.

I may be right or I may be wrong in everything, but in the Grand Scheme of things does it really matters? not really.
People always belive and see what they want regardless of being right or wrong /good or bad.

Bottom line is i don`t really like our world at all, and i would happily push the Reset button for the Human race, if it was in my power.
Since the majority of our fellow humans have become just mindless drones that care only about Money & Sex (and obviously what comes along with both).

once again  sorry to the OP for going completly off-topic with his thread.