Battle of Clontarf? Future events

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Lainncli

Lainncli

Regular
Now, before anyone has a go at me, this is just throwing ideas around and planning. If we can get some thoughts going already, then hopefully sort something good out for a few month's time.

I'd like to throw Clontarf around as an idea. Thoguh there are few contemporary sources, there appears a clear consensus that the Scandinavian power in Ireland was crushed - At the expense of Brian Bóruma's own control over the land. Clontarf is unfortunately built upon today, as it may have been at the time, but hopefully some local research is good enough provision to represent at least some areas of the battle.

Later Irish sources seem only to describe the nobles of the battle, especially in the case of the Annals of Inisfallen, but some further description may be found in the Annals of Ulster.


Brian son of Ceinnétig son of Lorcán, king of Ireland, and Mael Sechnaill son of Domnall, king of Temair, led an army to Áth Cliath. All the Laigin were assembled to meet him, and the foreigners of Áth Cliath, and a like number of the foreigners of Scandinavia, i.e. to the number of 1,000 breastplates. A valiant battle was fought between them, the like of which was never before encountered. Then the foreigners and the Laigin first broke in defeat, and they were completely wiped out. There fell on the side of the foreign troop in this battle Mael Mórda son of Murchad, king of Laigin, and Domnall son of Fergal, king of the Forthuatha, and of the foreigners there fell Dubgall son of Amlaíb, Siucraid son of Lodur, jarl of Innsi Orc, and Gilla Ciaráin son of Glún Iairn, heir designate of the foreigners, and Oittir Dub and Suartgair and Donnchad grandson of Erulb and Griséne and Luimne and Amlaíb son of Lagmann and Brotor who slew Brian i.e. chief of the Scandinavian fleet, and six thousand who were killed or drowned. Of the Irish moreover there fell in the counter-shock Brian son of Ceinnétig, over-king of the Irish of Ireland, and of the foreigners and of the Britons, the Augustus of the whole of north-west Europe, and his son Murchad, and the latter's son, i.e. Tairdelbach son of Murchad, and Conaing son of Donn Cuan son of Cennéitig, heir designate of Mumu, and Mothla son of Domnall son of Faelán, king of the Déisi Muman; Eochu son of Dúnadach and Niall ua Cuinn and Ceinnéitig's son, —Brian's three companions; two kings of Uí Maine, Ua Cellaig  . . . . . . . . , and Mael Ruanaid ua hEidin, king of Aidne, and Géibennach ua Dubagáin, king of Fernmag, and Mac Bethad son of Muiredach Claen, king of Ciarraige Luachra and Domnall son of Diarmait, king of Corcu Baiscinn, and Scannlán son of Cathal, king of Eóganacht of Loch Léin, and Domnall son of Eimen son of Cainnech, earl of Marr in Scotland, and many other nobles. Mael Muire son of Eochaid, successor of Patrick, with his venerable clerics and relics, came moreover to Sord Coluim Chille, and brought away the body of Brian, king of Ireland, and the body of his son Murchad, and the head of Conaing and the head of Mothla, and buried them in Ard Macha in a new tomb. For twelve nights the community of Patrick waked the bodies in honour of the dead king.
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One problem I can foresee, bar the map itself, might perhaps be the Laighin. An Irish kingdom, Leinster was ruled by Máel Mórda - Most likely a Norse-Gael, his ancestry belonging to the former and all accounts of himself apparently to the latter. They fought amongst the Scandinavians, against the Irish, but the army would most likely have been composed of Gaels rather than Norse. If it would be possible to add a Gaelic troop onto the Northmenn's faction, purely for an event, then that would be optimal - If it would be possible.

So, anyone for Clontarf? Any other ideas?
 
I would love to do a Clontarf-event seeing as the 1000 year anniversary was a few weeks ago. Still, arranging an event is not exactly a small thing and we just had one.
 
Aklis said:
I would love to do a Clontarf-event seeing as the 1000 year anniversary was a few weeks ago. Still, arranging an event is not exactly a small thing and we just had one.
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That's why I'm getting planning started early, so we can have a proper good one in a few months time.
 
It's not the first time someone suggests doing an event about Clontarf, but nothing came out of it that once. The difficulty of representing the Gaels who were allied with the Norsemen was never resolved (the solution you bring up is not technically feasible). We did the Battle of Sulcoit instead, but that one had to be postponed due to Warband's NW patch breaking WSE compatibility (Víkingr wasn't standalone yet), and we only got around to doing it, in a very different way, last December. That's the last event we'd had before Dněprŭ and it also dealt with the Dál Cais, one of the sons of Cennétig and the struggles between Gaels and Norsemen, so Clontarf might be a bit redundant right now and it might be better to have an event with a different setting first.

Anyway, in my experience this sort of brainstorming doesn't get events organized: a committed individual supported by a small team does, and any such persons will probably have their own preferences for a setting already. Organizing a large event that is up to Víkingr's standards is no easy task, either. If you want to be that committed individual, there are things you'll need to know about first. I was actually thinking that writing a guide detailing the kind of things an organizer needs to get done could be a good idea, as I always thought many veterans don't even think of organizing an event because they're not sure they'd be able to do it or don't know where to start, but there's a distinct possibility no one would ever use such a guide.
 
Aklis said:
1) Propose idea to Hroða

2) Pester Hroða until he does the event

3) Praise Hroða
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Yes sir!  :razz:

hrotha said:
It's not the first time someone suggests doing an event about Clontarf, but nothing came out of it that once. The difficulty of representing the Gaels who were allied with the Norsemen was never resolved (the solution you bring up is not technically feasible).
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Hmmm.... Being such a large battle, any map or round would surely not be intended to represent the entire fight but rather a portion of it. The Scandinavian's left flank was composed almost entirely of Danes and Norwegians, with Laighin's forces concentred at the formation's centre. The idea of allied Gaels could be avoided, unless a clan would like to proclaim themselves as the men of Leinster - Most likely armed using Scandinavian weapons and armour anyway.

hrotha said:
We did the Battle of Sulcoit instead, but that one had to be postponed due to Warband's NW patch breaking WSE compatibility (Víkingr wasn't standalone yet), and we only got around to doing it, in a very different way, last December. That's the last event we'd had before Dněprŭ and it also dealt with the Dál Cais, one of the sons of Cennétig and the struggles between Gaels and Norsemen, so Clontarf might be a bit redundant right now and it might be better to have an event with a different setting first.
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I think this is actually more of a detractor from Clontarf's attractiveness. However, I don't think it does harm to put some ideas together about Clontarf until a better battleground is proposed.

hrotha said:
Anyway, in my experience this sort of brainstorming doesn't get events organized: a committed individual supported by a small team does, and any such persons will probably have their own preferences for a setting already. Organizing a large event that is up to Víkingr's standards is no easy task, either. If you want to be that committed individual, there are things you'll need to know about first. I was actually thinking that writing a guide detailing the kind of things an organizer needs to get done could be a good idea, as I always thought many veterans don't even think of organizing an event because they're not sure they'd be able to do it or don't know where to start, but there's a distinct possibility no one would ever use such a guide.
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That's a good point and, to be honest, I guessed that a few members would eventually be the ones driving this forward - However many chip in.

A guide, or at least some pointers as to the standards required, might be useful - If not for me, for others. I'm genuinely interested in committing to organisation in the future, though I'm perhaps too tied down right now, but would have no idea when the work is done - Something that could result in me submitting a half-finished idea or labouring well past the necessary quality to meet fictional requirements.
 
Shush, Eiríkr!

Lainncli, if you want to know what standards apply to a Víkingr event, a good place to start would be to read the threads for the previous events:

Dněprŭ (May 18th, 2014)
Battle of Sulcoit (December 8th, 2013)
Battle of Eoferwic (July 21st, 2013)
Battle of Brūnanburh (April 28th, 2013)
Battle of Val-ès-Dunes (January 13th, 2013)
Se Ðéodloga (July 8th, 2012)
Éafanheall (January 23rd, 2012)
Danegeld (November 12th, 2011)
Raiding of Kent (September 19th, 2011)

As you'll see, the threads and the events themselves were constatly refined until they reached their current standards, which led to a relative decrease in the frequency of the events and to an increase in the effort required to organize one. That's what makes Víkingr events special. It can easily take up to 2-3 months to organize one.

One thing to bear in mind, however, is that part of what an organizer needs is a decent knowledge of all active clans, so that the balance can be assessed properly. Therefore, I'd encourage you to stick around until you're ready to organize an event by yourself, if that's what you want. In the meanwhile, we'd need some veteran player(s) to step up and start working on the next event. The people most likely to do it won't need any instructions, but I could write that guide for anyone else.
labouring well past the necessary quality
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No such thing! If you ask me, organizers should always be trying (whether they succeed or not is another matter) to outdo previous events. It's a healthy competition. :razz:
 
hrotha said:
Shush, Eiríkr!

Lainncli, if you want to know what standards apply to a Víkingr event, a good place to start would be to read the threads for the previous events:

Dněprŭ (May 18th, 2014)
Battle of Sulcoit (December 8th, 2013)
Battle of Eoferwic (July 21st, 2013)
Battle of Brūnanburh (April 28th, 2013)
Battle of Val-ès-Dunes (January 13th, 2013)
Se Ðéodloga (July 8th, 2012)
Éafanheall (January 23rd, 2012)
Danegeld (November 12th, 2011)
Raiding of Kent (September 19th, 2011)

As you'll see, the threads and the events themselves were constatly refined until they reached their current standards, which led to a relative decrease in the frequency of the events and to an increase in the effort required to organize one. That's what makes Víkingr events special. It can easily take up to 2-3 months to organize one.
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Yeah, that's actually quite useful to look at and get a measure of stuff. I was hoping to start that 2-3 month process now, or at least build a base for it to start from.

hrotha said:
One thing to bear in mind, however, is that part of what an organizer needs is a decent knowledge of all active clans, so that the balance can be assessed properly. Therefore, I'd encourage you to stick around until you're ready to organize an event by yourself, if that's what you want. In the meanwhile, we'd need some veteran player(s) to step up and start working on the next event. The people most likely to do it won't need any instructions, but I could write that guide for anyone else.
Click to expand...

I wasn't really expecting to be the driving force, and was hoping some more experienced players would help out - But sure, I'm happy just to hang back and wait if you think it's best just to leave the veterans to it. I'll keep myself available as a helping hand though.

hrotha said:
labouring well past the necessary quality
Click to expand...
No such thing! If you ask me, organizers should always be trying (whether they succeed or not is another matter) to outdo previous events. It's a healthy competition. :razz:
Click to expand...

Ja, of course

Leifr Eiríksson said:
Half finished ideas don't work.
Hey look! Another new guy who has a **** ton of 'smart ideas'.

(Just kidding)





(Not really?)
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Oi, watch it  :razz:
 
I like this man. He's scrappy and can take it on the chin with dignity!
If only otherborg folkborg could be like this Irishmanborg.

We are now friends and I will not speak ill of you again.
 
Leifr Eiríksson said:
I like this man. He's scrappy and can take it on the chin with dignity!
If only otherborg folk could be like this Irishman.

We are now friends and I will not speak ill of you again.
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We would be friends, had you not called me an Irishman... :p

(Hint: That other Gaelic country, the one with a bit of water between it and Ireland)
 
Lainncli said:
We would be friends, had you not called me an Irishman... :p

(Hint: That other Gaelic country, the one with a bit of water between it and Ireland)
Click to expand...

HEAD DESK
 
head_bde6c3_991300.jpg
 
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