[WNL3] Suggestions

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Scar

Prussian Immortal
Marquis
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Feel free to post your suggestions, ideas and questions regarding the Warband Native League here!
 
I guess this thread will be used for questions too.

Regarding the Swiss system: Will it be the same as in most chess-tournaments so, for example, the top-ranked team will only play against another top-ranked team it hasn't played against yet? (I think some short explanation for people who aren't willing to use google wouldn't be bad; was probably planned anyway)

Regarding the map-pick: How will be determined which team gets to pick a map first? It could make a difference since factions are preselected (even with spawn&faction-change).

I also still agree with nedsat's notion that different tiebreaker-options are useless and unnecessarily complicate the rules since no other than the default-one will be used anyway. Using some default one (personally I think all options are bad in some aspect or another so I don't care which one it is) with the option to change to duels/(gradually) reducing the number of players per team after x rounds (of the tiebreaker) have been played, would be, in my opinion, preferable and easier.

A last consideration I most likely haven't entirely thought through concerns the 16 rounds being played regardless whether a winner has already been found. Seeing as neither streamers nor, I guess, most players are interested in streaming/playing more or less useless rounds, wouldn't it be possbile to change the system from 'first points-then rounds won' to 'first points-then arithmetic mean between rounds won and rounds played' (drawed rounds adding 0,5 to rounds played or something like that)?

Nice work and thanks again for using your time for undertakings like this one. I look forward to watch the streams.
 
ModusTollens said:
Regarding the Swiss system: Will it be the same as in most chess-tournaments so, for example, the top-ranked team will only play against another top-ranked team it hasn't played against yet? (I think some short explanation for people who aren't willing to use google wouldn't be bad; was probably planned anyway)

Yeah good point. Some rules still need finalisation, we might change a couple of them in the upcoming days. Regarding teams playing the same team multiple times. We will be adding a rule similar to the previous WNL, that two teams may not face each other on consecutive fixture weeks (excluding the Knockout and Playoff stage). We'll have a look at implementing this immediately.

Edit: Implemented.

ModusTollens said:
Regarding the map-pick: How will be determined which team gets to pick a map first? It could make a difference since factions are preselected (even with spawn&faction-change).

First pick will be given to the first seed in the knockout stage and the higher placed team in the playoffs.

Edit: Clarified.

ModusTollens said:
I also still agree with nedsat's notion that different tiebreaker-options are useless and unnecessarily complicate the rules since no other than the default-one will be used anyway. Using some default one (personally I think all options are bad in some aspect or another so I don't care which one it is) with the option to change to duels/(gradually) reducing the number of players per team after x rounds (of the tiebreaker) have been played, would be, in my opinion, preferable and easier.

Yeah agreed, we will eliminate all tiebreaker options but duels and introduce the NC Tiebreakers as the standard tiebreaker option. So the tiebreaker will be played on Winterburg (or another symmetrical map if both teams agree) with same factions for both sides in a first to three. Standard match size for tiebreakers will be 8v8 unless both teams agree to play with more or less players.

Edit: Implemented.

ModusTollens said:
A last consideration I most likely haven't entirely thought through concerns the 16 rounds being played regardless whether a winner has already been found. Seeing as neither streamers nor, I guess, most players are interested in streaming/playing more or less useless rounds, wouldn't it be possbile to change the system from 'first points-then rounds won' to 'first points-then arithmetic mean between rounds won and rounds played' (drawed rounds adding 0,5 to rounds played or something like that)?

I agree that playing the remaining rounds after a match is decided doesn't make sense for neither the teams nor the streamers in Knockout Tournaments such as the ECS. But since the WNL is a ladder, and rounds won as well as round difference sort the tables and might eventually decide which team gets to play in the Knockout Tournament or the Playoffs, I don't think we should this for the regular tournament.

Regarding the playoffs and Knockout Matches, I could think of your suggestion as an option if both teams want to end the match. If one team wishes to play the remaining rounds I don't think we are in a position to not allow them to tho. If one team wishes to play the remaining rounds and the other team just leaves the server after the match is decided, the remaining rounds should count in favor of the team that wanted to keep playing.

Volshen said:
Will there be any new open maps? Or we will stay only with 4?  :???:

We've basically copied the map list of the ECS but removed Snowy Village since a lot of people complained about how it played out. We are happy to add convincing open maps to the map list tho we are not necessarily in need for more open maps.
 
I do think that we should not rush the tournament. There will be three divisions but its like 12 days till tournament and there is a chance that we can't find that much teams to fill three divisions. Yes, it still be good with two divisions but it is not the point in here. Thanks for getting WNL back!
 
Regarding the tie-breaker rule: Are the teams allowed to pick the same faction (e.g. Nords vs. Nords) and if not, how would be allowed to pick first?
 
M.ArdA said:
I do think that we should not rush the tournament. There will be three divisions but its like 12 days till tournament and there is a chance that we can't find that much teams to fill three divisions. Yes, it still be good with two divisions but it is not the point in here. Thanks for getting WNL back!

Yeah, was my bad. Sign ups will be open until 06/04/14, the tournament will start the next day.

yourNotAlone said:
Regarding the tie-breaker rule: Are the teams allowed to pick the same faction (e.g. Nords vs. Nords) and if not, how would be allowed to pick first?

Yeah, teams are allowed to pick the same factions. I'll clarify that one in the rules.

Edit: Clarified.
 
When do teams choose the maps they want to play? In the start of week when they know their opponent or is there some kind of deadline for that?

 
Bauglir said:
When do teams choose the maps they want to play? In the start of week when they know their opponent or is there some kind of deadline for that?

Teams will choose the maps only in the Knockout Tournament\Playoffs and they will have to choose them at the beginning of the week when we'll post the fixtures for that specific match we will clarify this in the rules as soon as possible.
 
Yeah I was thinking of a pick night for the maps. Should be good fun. The admins are going to discuss this one first tho.
 
Why don't you use Round Robin format for div B as well?

And what will you do if div C(and div B maybe too if there are drops) has odd number of teams? Will 1 team get DW or just skip the week without any changings in League tables? And how will you decide what exactly team won't play or get DW?
 
Volshen said:
Why don't you use Round Robin format for div B as well?

I was asking Duken about that point today as well. I would like to see the round robin for div. b.



Volshen said:
And what will you do if div C(and div B maybe too if there are drops) has odd number of teams? Will 1 team get DW or just skip the week without any changings in League tables? And how will you decide what exactly team won't play or get DW?

I think it's the best way when all matches against the team that drops out of the league count as 0:0 win for the others teams. (at least in division b)
 
~Scar said:
Yeah I was thinking of a pick night for the maps. Should be good fun. The admins are going to discuss this one first tho.

We will have pick nights on Monday to decide the maps.

Volshen said:
Why don't you use Round Robin format for div B as well?

Yeah good point. We have looked into some scenarios and actually came to the conclusion that RR is the better format for Division B.

Edit: Changed.

Volshen said:
And what will you do if div C(and div B maybe too if there are drops) has odd number of teams? Will 1 team get DW or just skip the week without any changings in League tables? And how will you decide what exactly team won't play or get DW?

Good question. Well drop outs will always be a major issue with ladders/divisions. Every method to deal with them has some sort of a weak spot, but we think that the method we will go with is the fairest out of all possible methods. As you sort of said, we think that drop outs in Division A and B are unlikely since the team in both division have been around for quite some time now and are known for being reliable. To answer your question, if a team in Division C drops out we will try to find a replacement first. If we are not able to find a team in time, the team with the lowest amount of points will receive a Default Win (0-0, 3 points). This is because we want to ensure that the team that will get to play in a higher division next season are actually the best teams of their previous division. If we would give out Default Wins to teams randomly we might end up with FINs situation last season, which was quite unfortunate for both sides. Another positive effect is, that the standings won't change (much) since the lowest placed team (Team A for example) will only get the default win until they aren't the lowest place team anymore, then the new lowest place team (Team B) will get the default win and will likely end up ahead of Team A again.

 
If I were an admin, I'd really attempt to eliminate cheating, as it's become a big problem. I already suggested you to try to edit all the maps and simply put big banners into the walls (wallhacks can't see through them), but no one actually cared. I've been told so many times about clans abusing wallhack and personally I think it's not so hard to eliminate it. You just need a bit of willingnes. I'm not going to point out who's cheating, but surely it's not just a single clan or two.
 
CarpeDiem said:
If I were an admin, I'd really attempt to eliminate cheating, as it's become a big problem. I already suggested you to try to edit all the maps and simply put big banners into the walls (wallhacks can't see through them), but no one actually cared. I've been told so many times about clans abusing wallhack and personally I think it's not so hard to eliminate it. You just need a bit of willingnes. I'm not going to point out who's cheating, but surely it's not just a single clan or two.

Yeah I agree, well we need people to edit then maps I guess (I've never edited a map or whatever, need people who have done it).

Captain Lust said:
For the signups/team info lists having links to the clan thread or website of the team would be great. I'm looking around trying to find out more about them.

I'll see what I can do.
 
But isn't it more wallhack than wall-hack? As far as I know, wallhack operates in way that allows you to see your opponent through scene props and walls. Meaning, your suggestion won't benefit at all and will be just a waste of time.
 
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