[Suggestion] Full Invasion 2 Overhaul Suggestion/brainstorming list

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Eagle114th

Sergeant Knight at Arms
Hello everyone,

I am creating this thread to post many of this community feedback/suggestions/ideas/brainstorming so developer team can check this thread through times.  And at the same time, I am hoping to have this community get involved in this thread to brainstorm and discuss for overhauling existing features or adding new features that should be added to FI2 mod.




[Factions]

World War 2 Faction Overhaul
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,291766.msg6942415.html#msg6942415




[Equipment]

Firearm overhauls for FI2
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,291766.msg6937368.html#msg6937368

Mount Overhaul
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,291766.msg6942405.html#msg6942405

Legendary Equipment Effect Removal
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,291766.msg6955090.html#msg6955090




[Gameplay]

Shield bashing abilities
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,291766.msg6937434.html#msg6937434

Disable blocking for AI only (without shields)
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,291766.msg6937371.html#msg6937371

>>> More to be added <<<
 
Firearm overhauls for FI2



(NOTE:  IT SHOULD ONLY BE APPLIED FOR PLAYERS WEAPONS, NOT INVASION AI!  If AI uses these changes, it will become pure hell for players to defend themselves against AI with firearms in FI2.)

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Muskets/flintlocks

- Knockdown effects - All muskets/flintlocks should have knock down effects for any mobs that doesn't have shields up.  Because due to high speed of ball rounds, it would knock you down, even with heavy armors you have with you.

- Bonus against shields - All muskets/flintlocks should have this bonus since it is devastating against shields.  When it breaks shields, it will be able to knock down any invading mobs.

- Accuracy - Since early Muskets and flintlocks is not as accuracy as later era (rifles and later), the accuracy is correct in my opinion.  But at the same time, most muskets are much same with accuracy, especially for shorter and longer barrels.  So different tiers of muskets/flintlocks with different barrel sizes should have different accuracy with bonuses.

- Damages/speeds - Since most of different muskets/flintlocks have same damage and speed, they should be different for each tiers of them.  Higher tiers mean better damages with higher golds prices.  With this overhaul, each weapons feel rewarding and unique to use in battles.

- Bullet drop - Since bullet doesn't drop over short distance so this need overhaul.  All bullet should have very little bullet drop, unlike arrows or bolts.

- Round damage type - Since musket uses ball rounds instead of bullet, should it be blunt damaged based instead of piercing?

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Rifles/Shots/pistols (i.e. Cowboy faction)

- Knockdown effects - All rifles/shotgun/pistols should have knock down effects for any mobs that doesn't have shields up.  Because due to high speed of ball rounds, it would knock you down, even with heavy armors you have with you.  Shotguns definitely should have strongest knock down effects.

- Can crush through blocks (Shotgun only) - Shotgun should have this effect since it have massive punching power so it should be able to knock shields down.

- Extra penetration bonus (Rifle only) - I tested Extra Penetration bonus for one of pistol in my own mod and it works as it should be.  It goes through shield and hit the body of target.  Since rifle have sharp bullets, unlike ball rounds, it goes through shields with ease.

- Bonus against shields - All rifles/shotguns/pistols should have this bonus since it is devastating against shields.  When it breaks shields, it will be able to knock down any invading mobs.

- Accuracy - Since rifles and later era pistols have much tighter accuracy than early era muskets and pistols, it definitely should have much improved accuracy compared to what is currently modeled in FI2.  And at the same time, most firearm are much same with accuracy, especially for shorter and longer barrels.  So different tiers of firearms with different barrel lengths should have different accuracy with bonuses.

- Damages/speeds - Since most firearm have same damage and speed, they should be different for each types/tiers of them.  Specific types/tiers mean different damages and golds prices.  With this overhaul, each weapons feel rewarding and unique to use in battles.

- Bullet drop - Since bullet doesn't drop over short distance so this need overhaul.  All bullet should have very little bullet drop, unlike arrows or bolts.

- Round damage type - Rifle and pistol should be piercing damage based (since it uses bullet) while shotgun should be blunt based (since it fires many tiny ball rounds)???

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World War II firearms

- Knockdown effects - All firearm should have knock down effects for any mobs that doesn't have shields up.  Because due to high speed of ball rounds, it would knock you down, even with heavy armors you have with you.  Shotguns definitely should have strongest knock down effects.

- Can crush through blocks (Shotgun and heavy caliber firearm) - Shotgun and heavy caliber firearm should have this effect since it have massive punching power so it should be able to knock shields down.

- Extra penetration bonus (rifle only) - I tested Extra Penetration bonus for one of pistol in my own mod and it works as it should be.  It goes through shield and hit the body of target.  Since rifle have sharp bullets, unlike ball rounds, it goes through shields with ease.

- Bonus against shields - All firearm should have this bonus since it is devastating against shields.  When it breaks shields, it will be able to knock down any invading mobs.

- Accuracy - Since modern firearm have much tighter accuracy than any earlier era firearm, it definitely should have much improved accuracy compared to what is currently modeled in FI2.  And at the same time, most firearm are much same with accuracy, especially for different types and barrels size.  So each tiers of firearms with different barrel lengths should have different accuracy with bonuses.

- Accuracy fixes (for semi-Auto and Automatic firing firearm) - Every time you fire each rounds, crosshair expands itself instantly, which results in very very terrible accuracy that spread everywhere over screen.  Crosshair should be limited in how far it can expand a bit, to keep bullet grouping tight every time you click on mouse button rapidly.

- Damages/speeds - Since most of World War II firearm have same damage and speed, they should be different for each types/tiers of them.  Specific types/tiers mean different damages and golds prices.  With this overhaul, each weapons feel rewarding and unique to use in battles.

- Bullet drop - Since bullet doesn't drop over short distance so this need overhaul.  All bullet should have very little bullet drop, unlike arrows or bolts.

- Round damage type - Shotgun should be blunt based (since it fires many tiny ball rounds) while rest of firearm should be piercing based damage???

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Modern firearms

- Knockdown effects - All firearm should have knock down effects for any mobs that doesn't have shields up.  Because due to high speed of ball rounds, it would knock you down, even with heavy armors you have with you.  Shotguns definitely should have strongest knock down effects.

- Can crush through blocks (Shotgun, minigun, and heavy caliber firearm) - Shotgun should have this effect since it have massive punching power so it should be able to knock shields down.

- Extra penetration bonus (heavy caliber firearm only) - I tested Extra Penetration bonus for one of pistol in my own mod and it works as it should be.  It goes through shield and hit the body of target.  Since rifle have sharp bullets, unlike ball rounds, it goes through shields with ease.  This should apply to all modern firearm (EXCEPT for shotgun).

- Bonus against shields - All firearm should have this bonus since it is devastating against shields.  When it breaks shields, it will be able to knock down any invading mobs.

- Accuracy - Since modern firearm have much tighter accuracy than any earlier era firearm, it definitely should have much improved accuracy compared to what is currently modeled in FI2.  And at the same time, most firearm are much same with accuracy, especially for different types and barrels size.  So each tiers of firearms with different barrel lengths should have different accuracy with bonuses.

- Accuracy fixes (for semi-Auto and Automatic firing firearm) - Every time you fire each rounds, crosshair expands itself instantly, which results in very very terrible accuracy that spread everywhere over screen.  Crosshair should be limited in how far it can expand a bit, to keep bullet grouping tight every time you click on mouse button rapidly.

- Damages/speeds - Since most of modern firearm have same damage and speed, they should be different for each types/tiers of them.  Specific types/tiers mean different damages and golds prices.  With this overhaul, each weapons feel rewarding and unique to use in battles.

- Minigun overhaul - Since you can't fire firearm at very high RPM rate in warband engine, so I have alternative solution for this as my idea.  Miniigun should use multi bullets per shot (like shotgun).  And unlike shotgun, it should fire much more bullets per shots with extra penetration unlike shotguns.      That will make it being very rewarding and different from gunshot with very high price.  It should cost at least no less than 100,000 golds. It will make minigun being very rewarding if you kill many mobs and survive through many waves.

- Bullet drop - Since bullet doesn't drop over short distance so this need overhaul.  All bullet should have very little bullet drop, unlike arrows or bolts.

- Round damage type - Shotgun should be blunt based (since it fires many tiny ball rounds) while rest of firearm should be piercing based damage???
 
Disable blocking for AI only (without shields)



Since there are usually hundred of mobs storming toward players that is defending the base, it would make better senses if AI (WITHOUT shield) doesn't have blocking abilities, so that way players can have full proper formation against them?  The reason why I bought this idea:

1) When players formed formation against hundred of AI, AI usually block player's attack with weapons only, making it difficult to manage formation in open field.

2) When players formed phalanx with polearms based weapons, AI usually block thrusting with weapons only, making it difficult to manage phalanx in open field.  By making disabling weapon blocking for AI allow front row of phalax to actually be able to use thrusting attacks for polearm while the rest can do the same.

3) It gives players chance to counterattack any mobs that surrounds them because there are usually many mobs in waves.

And finally, for AI that have shields should usually be ABLE to block with it!  That is what shields are all about, and that way players are able to have more flexible combat experiences.  And I can understand that people will say "But that will make it too easy in FI2!", that is true for the first waves.  But later waves become harder due to higher health and high tiers equipment and you will want to be able to use different formations and strategy against them in more flexible ways, especially on the open field (for some maps that doesn't have place to bottleneck them).
 
Shield bashing abilities



I think that shield bashing will be big benefit for this mod, especially for formations.  Here are several reasons why I strongly believe that shield bashing will be useful:

1) Useful for front line of formation (Especially phalanx formation) because you need space to be able to slash/thrust weapons with shield up against mobs that clash with you.  And being able to knock them down then hit them with weapons will be extremely useful for front line formation.  This will give you 'true' phalanx experiences with combination of shield and spear as an example!

2) Extra options for combat - It gives you more flexible for combat when using it, especially against group of mobs.  Due to large number of mobs attacking players in waves, bashing them with shields will give players extra bit of time and space to counter attack.
 
Horse Overhaul



(NOTE:  IT SHOULD ONLY BE APPLIED FOR PLAYERS mounts, NOT INVASION AI!  If AI uses these changes, it will become pure hell for players to defend themselves against AI with improved mounts in FI2.)

Horse needs heavy overhaul so they will give you 'true' mount experiences, especially having different diversity of mounts with their own strength and weakness.  Here is list of what I think would be great overhaul for mount:

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Horse Health

All horses have same health, especially both armored and unarmored version.  So this really need changing to reflect the big different between armor and non-armored mount.  I also noted that horses in FI2 is too weak, especially how they were taken down in just few hits by swords.  So here is list of how much health each tiers of unarmored and armored horse should be increased:

(Range from First to Last Tier)

Unarmored Horse
- First Tier Unarmored Horse - 1.5x
- (Between first to end Tier) - Above 1.5x to below 3x
- Last Tier Unarmored Horse - 3x

Armored Horse
- First Tier Unarmored Horse - 5x
- (Between first to end Tier) - Above 5x to below 7x
- Last Tier Unarmored Horse - 7x

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Horse Speed

By default, all of unarmored horses should be usually faster than armored horses.  Here is 'percentage' increases and decease in speed based on tiers.

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Horse Charges

This is my ideal model of how powerful charges should be.  I will be using farmer as target example to show how much hits it take for horse to knock these targets out for each tiers of unarmored vs armed horses:

(How hits to knock out farmer from charging, ranging from First to End Tier)

Unrmored Horses
First Tier - 4 hits
(First to end Tier) - 4 to 2 hits
End Tier - 2 hits

Armored Horses
First Tier - 2 hit
(First to end Tier) - 2 to 0.5 hits
End Tier - 0.5 hit

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That is the concept for any factions.  We need to find the general proper stats for first tier of armored and unarmored mount.  And as I stated above, different tier in both unarmored and unarmored mount should be very different in their own advantage and disadvantage, especially in their tiers.  And at once when that is achieved, then we can implement more stats changes to reflect each of faction's horses.  For example, LOTR faction known as Rohan should have bonus with 15 percent or bit higher stats for their unarmored horses.
 
World War 2 Faction Overhaul



World War 2 classes are so messy, especially with weapon selection screen, so they should be organized with this overhaul:

The class list and equipment selection should look like this:

Allied Assault
- Helmet/Uniform/Boot from allied nations
- Submachine gun from allied nations
- rifles/assault rifles from allied nations
- pistols from allied nations

Axis Assault
- Helmet/Uniform/Boot from axis nations
- Submachine gun from axis nations
- rifles/assault rifles from axis nations
- pistols from axis nations

Allied Engineer
- Helmet/Uniform/Boot from allied nations
- Shotguns from allied nations
- pistols from allied nations
- (Future features:  Explosive eqiupment (???)

Axis Engineer
- Helmet/Uniform/Boot from axis nations
- Shotguns from axis nations
- pistols from axis nations
- (Future features:  Explosive eqiupment (???)

Allied Support
- Helmet/Uniform/Boot from allied nations
- Light/Heavy machine gun from allied nations - VERY EXPENSIVE (50,000 golds or higher so you will rarely see them on battlefield)
- pistols from allied nations

Axis Support
- Helmet/Uniform/Boot from axis nations
- Light/Heavy machine gun from axis nations - VERY EXPENSIVE (50,000 golds or higher so you will rarely see them on battlefield)
- pistols from axis nations

Allied Recon/Scout
- Helmet/Uniform/Boot from allied nations
- Sniper rifles from allied nations - VERY EXPENSIVE (50,000 golds or higher so you will rarely see them on battlefield)
- pistols from allied nations

Axis Recon/Scout
- Helmet/Uniform/Boot from axis nations
- Sniper rifles from axis nations - VERY EXPENSIVE (50,000 golds or higher so you will rarely see them on battlefield)
- pistols from axis nations
 
Hi Eagle114th! Great list of improvements!

I agree with most of them. In my opinion 'Shield bashing abilities' would give the most benefits right away, same for the the knocdtown effects you propose.
I'd have one remark related to 'VERY EXPENSIVE' equipment like sniper rifles, machine guns etc. In my opinion they are too expensive and I've never seen them being used in the actual game.
Also disabling block for AI is something I would need to experience to be convinced, really
 
harnas1977 said:
Hi Eagle114th! Great list of improvements!

I agree with most of them. In my opinion 'Shield bashing abilities' would give the most benefits right away, same for the the knocdtown effects you propose.
I'd have one remark related to 'VERY EXPENSIVE' equipment like sniper rifles, machine guns etc. In my opinion they are too expensive and I've never seen them being used in the actual game.
Also disabling block for AI is something I would need to experience to be convinced, really

Thank you for feedback about my suggestion!  And if you can, post any additional ideas/suggestions about any overhaul that FI2 currently need.  And about AI without blocking, we should have a test server that tests it to see if it is really useful changes or not.  However, about expensive sniper rifles and light/heavy machine gun, I see,  then we should reduce it to more like 25,000 golds or so to make sure it is rarely seen in battlefield.  We should brainstorm more about the costs for each types and tiers of equipment.
 
Eagle114th said:
ZeroFighterR said:
I think we are missing the bracing with pikes and stuff.

Can you explain with more details about bracing with pikes and stuff?  More details you can give us, the merrier.

You are crouching with a pike in your hand, when a horse comes it will brace the horse(kill/wound the rider and horse) and totally stop the horse from moving.

We are lacking that feature.
 
Suggestion: I would really like to have the legendary weapons fire effects removed or at lease a downloadable optional file to remove the texture responsible, i simply cannot aim with anything with one of these on my back and even swinging it is tough to see.

This completely negates legendarys for me and i tend to avoid them, wish it wasnt that way and i can enjoy them though.
 
Ultra said:
Suggestion: I would really like to have the legendary weapons fire effects removed or at lease a downloadable optional file to remove the texture responsible, i simply cannot aim with anything with one of these on my back and even swinging it is tough to see.

This completely negates legendarys for me and i tend to avoid them, wish it wasnt that way and i can enjoy them though.
Acknowledged good point.
 
Ultra said:
Suggestion: I would really like to have the legendary weapons fire effects removed or at lease a downloadable optional file to remove the texture responsible, i simply cannot aim with anything with one of these on my back and even swinging it is tough to see.

This completely negates legendarys for me and i tend to avoid them, wish it wasnt that way and i can enjoy them though.

Added to the suggestion list and I totally agree with that!
 
I am bumping this so people can see this thread!

163556d1361149394-bump-thread-mario_bump.gif
 
• Please remove the "Shield" skill/stat for for all invading enemies. Entirely. Nobody wants to keep seeing magnetic shields that magically absorb arrows that would otherwise impact below, above, or besides the enemies shield. Especially within the LOTR factions which is played by most people most of the time, where archers are very present.

• Speaking of arrows, it would be nice if you would make fire arrows model and skin actually look like a fire arrow. Also, what about giving a small damage over time bonus... Would that be coding heavy? By the way, they look great mid air, both from the side and from archer perspective. Good thinking!


-◘ In general, seems the weapon stats are very flat, identical stats for variations of certain weapons. This is especially disappointing for something like the pikemen of the Spartan faction, comparing their long pike to the smaller spear of the hoplites. And those pikemen should be given proper Macedonian phalanx-type shields, not some cheap peltast ones!

• Some of the skins in this are extremely low resolution/quality compared to others for while playing on the low res version of the game. Take the Rohan chainmail for example. Were these skins by any chance taken from Third Age mod of Medieval II?


Eagle114th said:
Firearm overhauls for FI2

WWII bolt action rifles have an unreasonably low accuracy. I think you mentioned this before also, that there is a ridiculous amount of bullet drop in most if not all firearms, especially for the modern ones.

• The musket firing sound effect from musketeer faction is from a modern rifle, which is about 400 years wrong :grin:

- Same goes for the weapons you took from the once fabulous Zombieee(e?) mod, they need replacing. They are all of a 3 shot burst, even though there is just one shot per mouse click release. This has always felt awful, IMO. Speaking of which, the ammo situation in the loadout is quite a mess. I suggest having one generic ammunition type for all weapons, if possible. Same as from applies here, the generic weapon stats kind of break my old and wise modlovin' heart ♥

more I could say, but I'll leave it there for now. Cheers, and thanks for keeping this fun lil mod alive.
 
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