Patch proposition for With fire & Sword ( Multiplayer )

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Ncromancien

Ncromancien

Knight
Hello everybody =)

I'm here to make a proposition for the Multiplayer of wfas that haven't been patch for now 2 years, and unfortunatly, it needs to be patched. So let's get this started with the factions first, and then we will take a look at the maps, and then I'll say some general propositions.


Moscow :

Weakest faction ingame, for scrim, nobody uses it because it's so bad that you have no chance against other factions.

-Infantry : The infantry is good though, good armours ( 53 Body armour / 45 head armour ), good weapons : pikes and poleaxes. Better than cossack, Polish and Crimean infantry, it works in any melee fights during scrims or normal battle.
So Moscow infantry doesn't need to be touch, it's good how it is.

-Ranged : Surprisly Moscovite musketmen are not bad, they are actually very good. Indeed, the muskets are correct, they got all the pistols, and they got the poleaxes, which is the best melee weapon for the class in the whole game, also the armours are correct ( 20 Body / 15 head ) so as the infantry, no need to change it, or maybe just for increase a bit damage OR accuracy.

-Cavalry : The real problem with Moscow is their cav, which is from far the worst in the game. The armour and horses are good,
But the weapons are just aweful. Sabers are not usefull in wfas, because of pikes and musket, you get kill to easily, I tried to play pure shielder/saber, it's very hard, and you can't get so many kills, even if you are really careful. The Sovnya is just a joke, it makes like 0 damage, and it's very slow, just nobody uses it in server nowadays. The bows are very slow to use, the wpf of moscovite cav
must be very low, because it take ages to shoot, and accuracy is pretty bad anyway. The musket on horses are also mediocre, medium damage, long reload time, and low accuracy.
So everything must be improved :
        -Better damage with Sabers and Sovnya.
        -Better damage with bows.
        -Better musket on horses.
(Careful, not as good as it is now for cossacks or Sweden, of then Moscovite cav would become overpowered )


Overall : Improve cavalry


Sweden :

Strongest class ingame, you almost can say that it has the best range, infantry and cav of the game ( cav is still questionable )

-Infantry : The best from far ingame. has the best armours ( 60 Body / 60 head ) has awesome 2h swords + pikes.
An easy way to nerf it would be to decrease a bit the defense from -5 for Body and head, and also to decrease a bit damages with 2h swords.

Ranged : Best range ingame from far. Best accuracy ( 91 ) and very good damage damage ( 74 ) (Best damage for musket is cossack with 75).
Also can take good sabers, pistols ( with good accuracy even for cheapest ) and has descent armours.
For me accuracy and damage should be decrease a bit ( Polish and Moscovite musket do 64 damage !), nothing more to say except that.

-Cavalry : That bring us to the biggest problem, the cavalry. It has the best body armour ingame ( 65 ) and awesome overall armour.
Has awesome damage with swords. And mainly it has too good muskets. the miquelet musket has better damage than the musket of the range of muscovite and polish ! And it has a very good accuracy ( 82 ). At the end, Swedish cavs looks like tanks with awesome accuracy.
I propose : Decrease about ( -5 / -10 ) body armour, decrease damages, accuracy and make reload time for musket on horses longer.


Poland :

Very good faction, all classes are very good, and has an awesome cavalry charge with hussars.

-Infantry : The infantry of Poland is good, it has pikes + spears and Chekan, so you can fight at distance and take out plated ennemie inf.
Also it can use descent pistol and correct sabers. It has a good body armour ( 52 ), a good head armour ( 45 ), and the best legs armour ( 35 )
Nothing to say about it, balanced and not too good, no need to touch it.

-Ranged : It looks like Moscovite ranged, except for one or two things. It has same muskets, no poleaxes but correct 1h axes but still, sabers seems way better and has very good amours ( 40 head / 19 body ).
So as moscow, I would say to increase a bit accuracy or damages of muskets.

-Cavalry : Polish cavalry is maybe the most unbalanced class of all  the game. It has good armours ( 50 head / 52 body / 11 legs ), it has the longest lance ingame ( hussar lance ) for almost nothing ( 500 gold only , and we start on a server at 1800, and on scrim at 1500), it also has excellent bows, with good reload time, good accuracy and descent damages. It has shield, which are awesome to block bullets, you can take like 2 bullets without losing any hp, and then it has good horses and good riding skills.
So my propositions are clear :
              -Decrease hussar lance damage or increase his price to 800.
              -Decrease accuracy and make reload time with bows longer.


Cossacks :

Cossacks is a good faction, for his cavalry skills; ranged is good, but infantry is not really usefull.

-Infantry : The second worst infantry of the game ( the worst is crimean one ), it has worst armour for all infantry ( 28 head 33 body 29 legs ), you can be killed in 1 shot by a swedish musketman. It has a very good speed that become handy with the spears, you can with a very good speed, attack wih spear and spam, which work against ranged but not against ennemie infantry. It has good pistols, good maces and good sabers. Increase the body armour would fix all problems, even if they don't have pikes, increase of +15 head and body armour will bring cossacks infantry at a good level.

-Ranged : Pretty good ranged, it has correct muskets, good pistols and good sabers. It has bad armour ( 5 head / 15 body / 14 legs )
You still can shoot things with cossack muskets, but the accuracy is not that good, I would propose to increase musket skill of the class, and make them then a bit more accurate,

-Cavalry : As all the factions, the cossacks cavalry need a global nerf. They got good sabers, good maces, good horses, good riding skills, good speed on horses, good maneuver and especially awesome musket skills on horse ( Has same armour than infantry ). On servers and on scrim, it's not rare that everybody take that class and rush on the ennemie, you just can't beat that.
Proposition :
      -Decrease riding skills
      -Put reload time longer.
      -Decrease damage and accuracy with muskets.
      -Increase armours same as infantry.


Crimean Khanate :

Crimean is an original faction, it has bad infantry, bad lancers, but so good horsearchers, that this faction is forbidden in scrims and league.

-Infantry : Crimean infantry is pretty balanced, because they can play melee ( Shields + Sabers ) and ranged ( Muskets + bows ).
Sounds very good, but it's not. Only the melee fight is good, they have good speed, and shield + saber is pretty efficient, nobody uses it though, because you can use horsearchers instead. Armours are bad ( 35 head / 25 body / 22 legs ), and shooting with those muskets is very hard, accuracy is too low. Bows on foot doesn't work very well, and against musketmen, it's hard to win a 1 vs 1, or almost impossible.
Crim infantry should have :
          -Better armour ( increase of +7 each parts )
          -Better accuracy with muskets.


-Lancers : The least used class ingame. Almost nobody uses it, for one single reason, horse archers are way better. It's not such a bad class though.
I tried it long time ago when people didn't cav spam so much, and it's playable. Still, looking at it now, it shows his flaws. It has average armour for cav ( 35 head / 40 armour / 29 legs ), Sabers and lance are good, has good horses and best riding skills, and has awesome shields. But it's still a very hard class to play, because you have to get close to ennemy,  and against pikes, spear and musket, you usually die fast.
So I would say to increase damages for all melee weapons

Horse archers : The best class ingame from far. It has awesome riding skill, so very hard to shoot at them, it has descent armour for a range class (30 / 25 / 22 ), it has efficient shields, it has all the horses disponible ingame ( except warhorse), good sabers( you can 1 hit a musketman), and of course, it has insane bows.
So everything has to be nerfed for this class.
          -Decrease riding skills
          -Delete the best shield
          -Decrease / Damage / Accuracy of bows.
          -Make reload time longer.


So now maps.

Legend :

- Blue square : Spawns
- Red square : Actual flag spawns
- Black square : Actual flag spawns ( moved )
- Yellow circle : New flag spawn proposition

-Old castle :

I can not think about any bugs or glitch in the map, except that you can go up the ruins, but it doesn't give any advantage.
Flag spawn are not balanced, one spawn is advantaged :

Now :
5ju2.png


Proposition :
0fgh.png



It's still hard to balance the map, I couldn't find anything perfect, but I change one flag spawn and I have 2 propositions for it, don't know which is best.
Still seems better to me, but the original was pretty good.

-Arena :

Nothing to say about the map, very balanced, same as flags, and I don't know any glitch.

-Swamp delta :

Pretty balanced map, I don't know any glitch in it, I would fix flags though, just for balancing it even more.

Now :
s3v5.png


Proposition :
a8rv.png


I moved the flag on the middle for make it at equal distance and make it better. About the flag at ruins, I put it closer to the ruins like the third the is close to the tent.

-Fields :

One texture glitch on a useless building, nothing except that. I would move a bit one flag for balancing the map a bit.

Now :
68be.png


Proposition :
skpr.png


I moved all flags for making time to reach flags approximatly the same, and bring a balance about how to play on the map, and also being able to play against cavs, doesn't change so much at the end.

-Hill road :

Glitch through the bridge, very annoying during normal battles.

zvry.png



-Steppe Farmstead :

The map is well balanced, but I would move the flag on the hill of the top spawn ( in the screen ) for trying to balance it even more.

Now :

1aim.png



Proposition :

yv4s.png


Doesn't change much at the end, but still I think it would be more fair.

-Marketplace

Marketplae is the most played map ingame for scrims, but the flags are compltetly unfair, and the map is all about them, so i tried to figure how to balance that, even if again, I couldn't find something that convince me.

Now :

ry7m.png


Proposition :

piz0.png



They are 2 annoying glitches on the map :

cfz.png

8rxi.png


You can go inside that thing, in battle mod, it's so annoying when someone camp in there.

1ek.bmp


And you can go through the bridge, not such a bid problem so far.

-Forest skirt :

Haven't play this map enough to propose any fix, but still I think the map is pretty balanced, I put the screens for players, if anyone want to propose any fix.

frk1.png



-A road in the forest :

Almost nobody players that map for some reasons, for srims I players it only 1 time ( ! ). And it has a problem of flags.

Now :

( I lost the screen -_- )

Proposition :

d9ca.png


Glitch : you can go up the building near to spawn, which is very annoying during battles :

klbh.png



-Village by the river

Village by the river is a pretty balanced map. It's hard to find better, but I think the spawn in ruins is too unbalanced, so I proposed to move him a bit.

Now :

ylol.png


Proposition :

lyf.png



-Tatar town

Tatar town is paradoxically one of the most open map. Just because of the flag spawn, so I moved the spawn who is way too far outisde and put him inside.

Now :

tkim.png


Proposition :

px45.png



-Fortified town

Fortified town was one of the two maps added by the last patch, it sadly have problems with flags, with one that is untakeble by team 2 !

The flag is inside the house :

lyze.png


You can take it with team 1 by staying here :

5ppb.png


But with team 2, it doesn't work :

qzdj.png



About the global map :

Now :

ue03.png



Proposition :

bk5t.png



-Tranchees
Tranchees is a very good map, but in scrims, it's ( again...) all about the flags. So I proposed to fix two flags for make it more fair.

Now :

ln12.png


Proposition :

fb2.bmp


________________________________________________________________________________

So now, about the others proposition :

- Most of the flags are bugged, once the reach the top, the team is not winning, all the flags need to be fix !
- Most close map are needed, only maps where cav spam is mandatory for winning, the add of 1-2 close maps would be great !
- Nothing more for now.



I'll be updating this post from time to time, it's not finished yet.
I precise that it's just a proposition, so I have no power to change anything, I'm waiting for players to discuss about what I posted, say if they agree, disagree, or even change what I said. I can change anything anywhen. Moreover, my favourite clas in game is cavalry, so my propositions will be bad firstly for players like me, that plays cav, but it's for the game.

( I'll be fixing any problem in my post later )

Waiting for your answers and hoping that somewhen, game will be patched :smile:

______________________________________________________________________________

Added things proposed by other members of community :

YourStepDad :

-1.Fix the game breaking bugs in single player which prevent the players from further progressing with the story! Almost all the questlines are severely bugged, with the exception of Polish one that is the most stable.

-New multiplayer maps. This kind of content prolongs a game's life by far, and in the case of WFAS, maps are sorely lacking, especially captain co-op ones. There are only about 4 maps constantly played in the captain co-op mode. It's the best format of horde mode I ever played, but the quality of experience is largely dependent on the map and it's spawn points. Fortified Town, Tatar Town, Trenches and Fields(not even a co-op map, mind you) are the ones played the most, the rest is largely neglected. Most battle maps are good, and I absolutely adore the job you've done with most of them, but they are not very numerous either.

-New content. We waited for so long, you could reward our loyalty to this game by adding some new items/troops, for both single player and multi player, but I believe items are of much more importance for MP. You could add more existing items from the single player to multiplayer too. As for new items - I have noticed a lack of hats and feathered items. We could use a few of those. Burgonets too - you don't have those in your game at all. Perhaps some cuirassies, a new halberd model or two etc. These are less important, but would certainly be nice.
 
First of all...WOW. You put a lot of work in that thread. I`m going to tell you my opinion of the things u wrote down now.

Moscow

Nothing more to say about Infantry and Snipers.
About the Cavarly: Fact is, Muscovite Cavalry have the 2nd best bow and the best arrows of the game. That`s better then Crim Infantry and almost as good as Crimean mounted archers.
The big difference is the accuracy, which is really bad for the Muscovite mounted archers and the fact, that they have the weak horses, means they don`t have Steppe horses, Racing Horses or Purebred horses. All these three are faster than Warhorses. Another aspect of the Muscovite Cavalry is that they are the only mounted class except Crimean mounted archers which doesn`t have lances. They have sownyas instead, but honestly, on horseback this weapon is kind of useless. You said they also should have better muskets on horses, which I think would make them overpowered, because then they would have good bows and good muskets, which no other faction has. Another thing is, if we give the Muscovite better bow skills, we need to delete their possibility of picking the thick shield, which is the 3rd best in the game and which no other horseman can pick.

So my  suggestion: Improve accuracy of the bows
Add better horses ( maybe Steppe horses)
Add lances
Remove Thick shield from Cavalry

Sweden:

I agree with you in all aspects.

Poland:

I agree that the Hussar lance should either be nerfed or be more expensive.
About the bows: Poland has the 3rd best bow and the 2nd best arrows, which is worse than Crimean infantry. They have a decent accuracy, but I think this is ok because they don`t deal as much damage as Muscovite or Crimean mounted archers.

So my suggestion: Make hussar lance more expensive
No need to touch accuracy or damage of the bows

Cossacks:

Fact is, the Cossacks are one of the two factions who live by their strong cavalry. With your solution you would nerf their cavalry and buff their infantry and musketmen. The situation now is, cavalry is overpowered and others are weak. Your solution makes cavarly weak and Infantry overpowered. You would just change the direction of the scissors, I hope u can follow me  :razz:
If we now increase their armor by 15 on every spot we get a type of infantry that can take lots of damage, use pretty good melee weapons and can oneshoot snipers with good pistols. I think you should nerf the cavalry less and buff the infantry less so they are on the same level.

My suggestion:

Increase armor of Infantry about +7
Decrease the accuracy of Horsemen

Crimean Khanate:

I agree with you at the most parts, but I think there is no need to remove the shield as it is the 2nd weakest and all other factions that can use bows can also pick it.




That`s it for now, I hope I could help you out and that a lot of people read this thread so we can force a patch, which is more than needed in this game.

Cali


 
Good job Ncro

I've nothing to add about factions expect that i'm really agreed about decrease cavalry !

About Old Castle : This flag spawn is quite good i think

1377085607-0fgh.png



Marketplace : Good idea to change flag spawns but maybe something like that would be better

1377085326-piz0.png


That interesting to fight in alley and around, change flags like that would keep a good  balance on the map.


Village by the river : Not really need to change flags spawn, one flag with good protection on 2 sides is fair, 1 with tower and 1 with ruins.


Trenchees : This map don't need to change flags spawn expect to bring some new. Best would be like that :

1377086156-fb2.png



And an other glitch on village by the river

1377086614-mb-wfas-2013-08-21-13-21-12-36.png



Nothing to add about other map.

 
So guys,
it´s really nice that you have written so much what should be done in With Fire and Sword.
I haven´t read everything yet, so I just say what is really important for me:
Even if you make the Cav of Sweden, Cossacs, Crimean and Poland weaker, there has to be a cav limit in my opinion.
Cav spam will continue on normal battle and that´s what I definitely hate in this game.

Furthermore it would be good to increase the realoading time of almost all fire weapons. That would make it even realistic and more balanced. Infantry has too big problems on an open map or if the enemies´position is too good. That´s why I think that the reloading time should be increased just a bit ( or at least for the best muskets ).

So all in all I think I mainly agree with the most comments here.

 
Besides thanks to everyone how already created a lot in this thread and thanks to the guys who will create here something in the fortune.
:mrgreen:
 
Global cav limit would bring too much problems, just an option for cw in admin panel yeah good idea.
 
@Raven :

Raven (Gothia) said:
Hey ncro, my dear friend. This thread looks good already, but i still have some other propositions for you too.

First of all i agree with you in everything you said about Moscow. The only thing is that perhaps sovnyas should be replaced by lances.

Then sweden. I almost agree with everything there, except a few things. I think the swedish aim should be nerved, especially while jumping. (for example if you make a jumpshot while not walking with swedish musketeers you have 85 acc left) Also i think that the body armor could also be reduced with 10/15. ---> When I talked about nerfing muskets, it was global, so it's also about jump shots ( which are insane, I agree on that ), and I think armor is ok, doesn't really change anything against infantry anyway

Then Poland. I would nerv Polish cav for sure. Because on open maps its the most OP faction for sure. So i would indeed agree with ncro by increasing the value, and be decreasing the dmg. And for sure decrease acc of bows with Poland. The acc is way too good. Or you would have to nerv the dmg.  :roll: We agree on that :smile:

Then cossacks. I agree with you completely there ncro. But perhaps you meant increase reload time instead of decrease?  :wink: Fixed :wink:

Then crim. I completely agree with ya there m8.  :wink:

Now the maps.
I agree  with flag spawn propositions on old castle.

On arena and swamp delta i agree with you too.

Then fields. I think the spawn in the forest on fields was ok. The other ones however have to be moved. The flag spawn under the barn should be moved closer to the barn, or even in front of it just to make sure its not impossible for a team on foot to control the flag spawn. Then the flag spawn above the barn has to be moved too. I would suggest 2 things
i would suggest it to be moved to the old barn (the house on top of your map) or to the tree on the right of the barn. (then its inbetween the spawns) --> It's interesting but there will be a problem, I thought about that already but, one team can go into the barn quite safety, and then they will be able to take the flags easily, with my flags spawn, it can't really happen !

Then on hill road i agree with you too. Remove the glitch, and spawns are fine.

Then steppe farmstead. Ialmost completely agree... except one spawn. The spawn which is originally on the middle-down side of the map should be moved more to the left (with the houses there on the left) for a more balanced spawn. ---> My point here was, each spawn has one easy flag to get = Mill and down hill, and one balanced for both.
Then on marketplace i agree with you too. The spawn in the middle was ok, but the spawn on the right was too far away for 1 spawn, and the spawn in the back alley was too easily taken by the spawnsie at the church. Good choice for moving those to more open space.
Also remove the glitches, and were all fine  :smile:

Then forest skirt. 2 really unbalanced flag spawns. I've played on this map before, and i noticed that on the upper spawn you control 2 of the flag spawns rly easily. They should both be moved. The spawn closest to that spawn should be moved more to the left. Then the spawn inside the palisade should be moved outside at least. ---> I played it sometimes but are they really unbalanced ? As a lot of maps, both sides has 2 easy flags to get, so I'm not sure, but maybe we can try something more balance, but then, the 3 flags need to be moved, or two would be to close to each others !

I almost completely agree with you on road in the forest too. Although i thnk the spawn in the middle should be moved even more to the middle bridge. And pls remove this glitch with the roof, thanks :grin:

I completely agree with you on village by the river i think. If the polish cav is nerved ofcourse :razz: Don't forget about the glitch with the bridge though. There is an annoying glitch where you can go under the bridge, so you can walk through the water without anyone seeing you. ---> As I said, I have to complete stuff in the thread, I'll be doing glitches asap

On tatar town i agree with the spawn in the middle of the town, but i dont agree with the spawns that are still outside. The one on the downside should be move in front of the bridge, or even over it, and the spawn on the top should be moved to the hole in the wall. Like this you give people the opportunity to play with a foot based "army' on this map. ---> I thought about it, and I might be better. Have to think about it, but the idea is not bad.

Then on fortified town o agreed with everything what you said, although i would move the spawn that you placed in the middle a bit more in south-east direction. ---> Things that need to be tried, hard to say which is better, both seems good.

Then on trenches im ok with the middle spawn, but im not sure what you mean with those flag spawns, but i think one of the flag spawns should be on the hill ridge to the north, and 1 more to the south. (For example with the overwalk) ---> I put 3 possible places for each spawns, very hard to know which are the bests there.

Then i COMPLETELY agree with the things you said after the flag spawn part. Really, because it is VERY long ago we had a patch, and as such we played on these maps for too long already, and even on some of the more "closed" maps people are trying to use cav spam. If a LOT of these problems would be fixed, i would be happy.

Take note that what im saying here are also propositions, and just like ncro im not able to change anything. Keep the work up bro :grin: (love you my Ncro :*  ) ---> Will try to ;)
Click to expand...



@Caligula :



xXCaligulaXx said:
First of all...WOW. You put a lot of work in that thread. I`m going to tell you my opinion of the things u wrote down now. ---> Like 4-5 hours, and still a lot to do :p

Moscow

Nothing more to say about Infantry and Snipers.
About the Cavarly: Fact is, Muscovite Cavalry have the 2nd best bow and the best arrows of the game. That`s better then Crim Infantry and almost as good as Crimean mounted archers.
The big difference is the accuracy, which is really bad for the Muscovite mounted archers and the fact, that they have the weak horses, means they don`t have Steppe horses, Racing Horses or Purebred horses. All these three are faster than Warhorses. Another aspect of the Muscovite Cavalry is that they are the only mounted class except Crimean mounted archers which doesn`t have lances. They have sownyas instead, but honestly, on horseback this weapon is kind of useless. You said they also should have better muskets on horses, which I think would make them overpowered, because then they would have good bows and good muskets, which no other faction has. Another thing is, if we give the Muscovite better bow skills, we need to delete their possibility of picking the thick shield, which is the 3rd best in the game and which no other horseman can pick.
---> I agree about delete the thick shield, but I think you don't exactly my point. I said to improve muskets and bows, but not a lot ! Not new muskets for example ! Just a bit, that the cav is very complete with all weapons, but still not the best in every category, and then it's not so overpowered !

So my  suggestion: Improve accuracy of the bows
Add better horses ( maybe Steppe horses)
Add lances
Remove Thick shield from Cavalry
---> Could balance a bit as well, but for me, they should keep Sovnya with awesome speed and damage, make it a good weapon that people could use !

Sweden:

I agree with you in all aspects.

Poland:

I agree that the Hussar lance should either be nerfed or be more expensive.
About the bows: Poland has the 3rd best bow and the 2nd best arrows, which is worse than Crimean infantry. They have a decent accuracy, but I think this is ok because they don`t deal as much damage as Muscovite or Crimean mounted archers.

So my suggestion: Make hussar lance more expensive
No need to touch accuracy or damage of the bows
---> I disagree about bows, I think they are way too powerful, you can win with only polish cavalry using bows ! The accuracy is way way too good. Look at those screens !

See the crosshair ? This is horsearcher :
bxo4.png

And polish musketman :
i7n3.png


Not so different isn't it ?

Cossacks:

Fact is, the Cossacks are one of the two factions who live by their strong cavalry. With your solution you would nerf their cavalry and buff their infantry and musketmen. The situation now is, cavalry is overpowered and others are weak. Your solution makes cavarly weak and Infantry overpowered. You would just change the direction of the scissors, I hope u can follow me  :razz:
If we now increase their armor by 15 on every spot we get a type of infantry that can take lots of damage, use pretty good melee weapons and can oneshoot snipers with good pistols. I think you should nerf the cavalry less and buff the infantry less so they are on the same level.
---> That was my point actually, I think you understood me wrong :grin:

My suggestion:

Increase armor of Infantry about +7
Decrease the accuracy of Horsemen---> Accuracy is not enough, decrease damage also or it wouldn't change the problem, most of HA play in very close range !

Crimean Khanate:

I agree with you at the most parts, but I think there is no need to remove the shield as it is the 2nd weakest and all other factions that can use bows can also pick it.
---> Prob not :p



That`s it for now, I hope I could help you out and that a lot of people read this thread so we can force a patch, which is more than needed in this game.

Cali
Click to expand...


@Aedor :


Aedor said:
Good job Ncro ---> :3

I've nothing to add about factions expect that i'm really agreed about decrease cavalry !

About Old Castle : This flag spawn is quite good i think

1377085607-0fgh.png



Marketplace : Good idea to change flag spawns but maybe something like that would be better

1377085326-piz0.png


That interesting to fight in alley and around, change flags like that would keep a good  balance on the map. ---> Problem is : one spawn take the park, the other not, so then we are in an unbalanced situation :/


Village by the river : Not really need to change flags spawn, one flag with good protection on 2 sides is fair, 1 with tower and 1 with ruins. ---> You can't take the flag immadiatly at tower, and if you do, you can shot, not at ruins ! That was my point


Trenchees : This map don't need to change flags spawn expect to bring some new. Best would be like that :

1377086156-fb2.png



And an other glitch on village by the river

1377086614-mb-wfas-2013-08-21-13-21-12-36.png


---> Need to add more, as I sad to Raven, lot still to do :wink:

Nothing to add about other map.
Click to expand...
 
Raven told me that you have done something great Ncro. And seems like he was absolutely right.

In Moscov I totally agree with you. As Raven said ,,sovnyas could be replaced by lances''. Well, I could keep this for cavalry, because using sovnya on horse is pretty hard and it isn't couchable. The other thing I wonder is that muscovite horsemen have racing horse in singleplayer, so maybe they could even be in multiplayer.

Sweden is really overpowered, their musketeers always cause problem for everyone. Everything you said about them is perfect. Especially the Two Handled Swords need to change. I saw these swords in real life, and their blade is not longer than one metre. They are way too powerful (one swing, one kill) and too long.

And about Poland... I don't think there is anything to do with hussar lances. Perhaps some people find it unrealistic, but it isn't. In fact, you can easily block the hussar lance by blocking down... in real that couldn't be. Same thing I say for the bows. It can be that crimean horse archers are more trained with bows, but every faction could have almost same archer skills. The accuary of the polish bowmen is almost same as moscovites, so no change needed on polish cav imo. And the best polish armor, the hussar armor with hide should have better body armor (least with +5).

Cossack is surely a cavalry faction and they have overpowered cav at the moment. I totally agree with you in everything, but I think the cossack musketeers' shooting skill should be increased or kept and the infs' and cavs' should be decreased. I have found out that if a cossack infantryman picks up a cossack miquelet musket, it has better accuary than the musketeer. The best cossack armor in singleplayer has around 40 body armor, so I think this information is useful.

The crimean armor is damn weak. And I miss the blue bretherets. Their horse archers are truly too powerful, again everything what you said is right.

I don't have anything to say about the maps. For me they are good even now, but they will be better with the changed flag spawns.

The game has to change very much, and hopefully it will. But please, keep the polish cav the way it is.

 
Marth The Gryphonhearted said:
Raven told me that you have done something great Ncro. And seems like he was absolutely right.

In Moscov I totally agree with you. As Raven said ,,sovnyas could be replaced by lances''. Well, I could keep this for cavalry, because using sovnya on horse is pretty hard and it isn't couchable. The other thing I wonder is that muscovite horsemen have racing horse in singleplayer, so maybe they could even be in multiplayer.

Sweden is really overpowered, their musketeers always cause problem for everyone. Everything you said about them is perfect. Especially the Two Handled Swords need to change. I saw these swords in real life, and their blade is not longer than one metre. They are way too powerful (one swing, one kill) and too long.

And about Poland... I don't think there is anything to do with hussar lances. Perhaps some people find it unrealistic, but it isn't. In fact, you can easily block the hussar lance by blocking down... in real that couldn't be. Same thing I say for the bows. It can be that crimean horse archers are more trained with bows, but every faction could have almost same archer skills. The accuary of the polish bowmen is almost same as moscovites, so no change needed on polish cav imo. And the best polish armor, the hussar armor with hide should have better body armor (least with +5).

Cossack is surely a cavalry faction and they have overpowered cav at the moment. I totally agree with you in everything, but I think the cossack musketeers' shooting skill should be increased or kept and the infs' and cavs' should be decreased. I have found out that if a cossack infantryman picks up a cossack miquelet musket, it has better accuary than the musketeer. The best cossack armor in singleplayer has around 40 body armor, so I think this information is useful.

The crimean armor is damn weak. And I miss the blue bretherets. Their horse archers are truly too powerful, again everything what you said is right.

I don't have anything to say about the maps. For me they are good even now, but they will be better with the changed flag spawns.

The game has to change very much, and hopefully it will. But please, keep the polish cav the way it is.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry but what you say is kinda strange... If we don't change polish cav, we can't change anything or Polish cav would become way too strong compare to other factions, and then, it would  become even worse... So Polish cav need to be nerfed in priority for me.
 
@Caligula :



xXCaligulaXx said:
First of all...WOW. You put a lot of work in that thread. I`m going to tell you my opinion of the things u wrote down now. ---> Like 4-5 hours, and still a lot to do :p

Moscow

Nothing more to say about Infantry and Snipers.
About the Cavarly: Fact is, Muscovite Cavalry have the 2nd best bow and the best arrows of the game. That`s better then Crim Infantry and almost as good as Crimean mounted archers.
The big difference is the accuracy, which is really bad for the Muscovite mounted archers and the fact, that they have the weak horses, means they don`t have Steppe horses, Racing Horses or Purebred horses. All these three are faster than Warhorses. Another aspect of the Muscovite Cavalry is that they are the only mounted class except Crimean mounted archers which doesn`t have lances. They have sownyas instead, but honestly, on horseback this weapon is kind of useless. You said they also should have better muskets on horses, which I think would make them overpowered, because then they would have good bows and good muskets, which no other faction has. Another thing is, if we give the Muscovite better bow skills, we need to delete their possibility of picking the thick shield, which is the 3rd best in the game and which no other horseman can pick.
---> I agree about delete the thick shield, but I think you don't exactly my point. I said to improve muskets and bows, but not a lot ! Not new muskets for example ! Just a bit, that the cav is very complete with all weapons, but still not the best in every category, and then it's not so overpowered ! ---> Ok, then it`s fine.

So my  suggestion: Improve accuracy of the bows
Add better horses ( maybe Steppe horses)
Add lances
Remove Thick shield from Cavalry
---> Could balance a bit as well, but for me, they should keep Sovnya with awesome speed and damage, make it a good weapon that people could use ! ---> I think sownyas are really bad on horses, u can`t charge with them, they have short range and they are slow.

Sweden:

I agree with you in all aspects.

Poland:

I agree that the Hussar lance should either be nerfed or be more expensive.
About the bows: Poland has the 3rd best bow and the 2nd best arrows, which is worse than Crimean infantry. They have a decent accuracy, but I think this is ok because they don`t deal as much damage as Muscovite or Crimean mounted archers.

So my suggestion: Make hussar lance more expensive
No need to touch accuracy or damage of the bows
---> I disagree about bows, I think they are way too powerful, you can win with only polish cavalry using bows ! The accuracy is way way too good. Look at those screens ! ---> This is the aim when you don`t move, but when you do this in a cw you will get shot.

See the crosshair ? This is horsearcher :
bxo4.png

And polish musketman :
i7n3.png


Not so different isn't it ?

Cossacks:

Fact is, the Cossacks are one of the two factions who live by their strong cavalry. With your solution you would nerf their cavalry and buff their infantry and musketmen. The situation now is, cavalry is overpowered and others are weak. Your solution makes cavarly weak and Infantry overpowered. You would just change the direction of the scissors, I hope u can follow me  :razz:
If we now increase their armor by 15 on every spot we get a type of infantry that can take lots of damage, use pretty good melee weapons and can oneshoot snipers with good pistols. I think you should nerf the cavalry less and buff the infantry less so they are on the same level.
---> That was my point actually, I think you understood me wrong :grin: ---> I think you understood me wrong :razz: What i mean is u wanna nerf every aspect of horsesnipers, and give infantry a loooooot better armor. I suggested you to nerf just a few things about horsesnipers and give the infantrists less armor buff.

My suggestion:

Increase armor of Infantry about +7
Decrease the accuracy of Horsemen---> Accuracy is not enough, decrease damage also or it wouldn't change the problem, most of HA play in very close range !---> maybe just nerf riding skills a little bit so they are not that mobile when shooting from 1metre, but if u nerf the damage AND accuracy they are kinda useless.

Crimean Khanate:

I agree with you at the most parts, but I think there is no need to remove the shield as it is the 2nd weakest and all other factions that can use bows can also pick it.
---> Prob not :p --->  :razz:



That`s it for now, I hope I could help you out and that a lot of people read this thread so we can force a patch, which is more than needed in this game.

Cali
Click to expand...

 
xXCaligulaXx said:
@Caligula :



xXCaligulaXx said:
First of all...WOW. You put a lot of work in that thread. I`m going to tell you my opinion of the things u wrote down now. ---> Like 4-5 hours, and still a lot to do :p

Moscow

Nothing more to say about Infantry and Snipers.
About the Cavarly: Fact is, Muscovite Cavalry have the 2nd best bow and the best arrows of the game. That`s better then Crim Infantry and almost as good as Crimean mounted archers.
The big difference is the accuracy, which is really bad for the Muscovite mounted archers and the fact, that they have the weak horses, means they don`t have Steppe horses, Racing Horses or Purebred horses. All these three are faster than Warhorses. Another aspect of the Muscovite Cavalry is that they are the only mounted class except Crimean mounted archers which doesn`t have lances. They have sownyas instead, but honestly, on horseback this weapon is kind of useless. You said they also should have better muskets on horses, which I think would make them overpowered, because then they would have good bows and good muskets, which no other faction has. Another thing is, if we give the Muscovite better bow skills, we need to delete their possibility of picking the thick shield, which is the 3rd best in the game and which no other horseman can pick.
---> I agree about delete the thick shield, but I think you don't exactly my point. I said to improve muskets and bows, but not a lot ! Not new muskets for example ! Just a bit, that the cav is very complete with all weapons, but still not the best in every category, and then it's not so overpowered ! ---> Ok, then it`s fine.

So my  suggestion: Improve accuracy of the bows
Add better horses ( maybe Steppe horses)
Add lances
Remove Thick shield from Cavalry
---> Could balance a bit as well, but for me, they should keep Sovnya with awesome speed and damage, make it a good weapon that people could use ! ---> I think sownyas are really bad on horses, u can`t charge with them, they have short range and they are slow.
---> I'm sure we could do something with it :grin:

Sweden:

I agree with you in all aspects.

Poland:

I agree that the Hussar lance should either be nerfed or be more expensive.
About the bows: Poland has the 3rd best bow and the 2nd best arrows, which is worse than Crimean infantry. They have a decent accuracy, but I think this is ok because they don`t deal as much damage as Muscovite or Crimean mounted archers.

So my suggestion: Make hussar lance more expensive
No need to touch accuracy or damage of the bows
---> I disagree about bows, I think they are way too powerful, you can win with only polish cavalry using bows ! The accuracy is way way too good. Look at those screens ! ---> This is the aim when you don`t move, but when you do this in a cw you will get shot.
---> Even if you move it doesn't change much

See the crosshair ? This is horsearcher :
bxo4.png

And polish musketman :
i7n3.png


Not so different isn't it ?

Cossacks:

Fact is, the Cossacks are one of the two factions who live by their strong cavalry. With your solution you would nerf their cavalry and buff their infantry and musketmen. The situation now is, cavalry is overpowered and others are weak. Your solution makes cavarly weak and Infantry overpowered. You would just change the direction of the scissors, I hope u can follow me  :razz:
If we now increase their armor by 15 on every spot we get a type of infantry that can take lots of damage, use pretty good melee weapons and can oneshoot snipers with good pistols. I think you should nerf the cavalry less and buff the infantry less so they are on the same level.
---> That was my point actually, I think you understood me wrong :grin: ---> I think you understood me wrong :razz: What i mean is u wanna nerf every aspect of horsesnipers, and give infantry a loooooot better armor. I suggested you to nerf just a few things about horsesnipers and give the infantrists less armor buff.
---> I think I'm lost..

My suggestion:

Increase armor of Infantry about +7
Decrease the accuracy of Horsemen---> Accuracy is not enough, decrease damage also or it wouldn't change the problem, most of HA play in very close range !---> maybe just nerf riding skills a little bit so they are not that mobile when shooting from 1metre, but if u nerf the damage AND accuracy they are kinda useless.
---> I don't think so, they are so OP now that they need huge nerf, but maybe damage OR accuracy could be enough...

Crimean Khanate:

I agree with you at the most parts, but I think there is no need to remove the shield as it is the 2nd weakest and all other factions that can use bows can also pick it.
---> Prob not :p --->  :razz:



That`s it for now, I hope I could help you out and that a lot of people read this thread so we can force a patch, which is more than needed in this game.

Cali
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
YOLOHIPSTERSWAG said:
nice thread / ideas but somehow i dont think they will change anything
Click to expand...

This is why as much people as possible should participate at this project and bring their ideas, maybe then Taleworlds realises that this game is not dead! I would even pay if they just did something.
 
This is amazing. An incredibly constructive thread that basically does all the brainstorming when it comes to MP bugfixes for the developers. But in my opinion, this is not nearly enough.

I already pleaded the developer for this, and this is the response that they have given us in their Q&A;

http://www.snowbirdgames.com/forum/index.php?threads/caribbean-%E2%80%94-q-a.19/

It's the last answer in the Q&A sections, and it goes like this:

  14.Will you be releasing another patch for the first WFAS? I recall you saying you are working on it.

    Nobody could ever force us to promise that we’d release a patch for WFAS but we will really try to do that before «Caribbean!» release.
Click to expand...

I would like to add to this several key things. I would greatly appreciate it if you could include the following requests in your first post.

So here goes, from what is in my eyes the most important to less important:

1.Fix the game breaking bugs in single player which prevent the players from further progressing with the story! Almost all the questlines are severely bugged, with the exception of Polish one that is the most stable.

2. New multiplayer maps. This kind of content prolongs a game's life by far, and in the case of WFAS, maps are sorely lacking, especially captain co-op ones. There are only about 4 maps constantly played in the captain co-op mode. It's the best format of horde mode I ever played, but the quality of experience is largely dependent on the map and it's spawn points. Fortified Town, Tatar Town, Trenches and Fields(not even a co-op map, mind you) are the ones played the most, the rest is largely neglected. Most battle maps are good, and I absolutely adore the job you've done with most of them, but they are not very numerous either.

3. Multiplayer balancing issues. Including multiplayer bugs and misplaced spawn points. MP is VERY imbalanced. Now this is very funny to me, because the SP is so incredibly well balanced. I haven't played in a while but I remember several general key issues that need to be adressed: - MAKE MUSKETS LESS ACCURATE AND THEIR RETICLE LESS FOCUSED, Make top tier three quarters armors more expensive, Increase reloading times/reload penalty while moving. These are key things that can be easily changed yet vastly improve the gameplay. I will not mention the troop/faction balance as the OP handled that.

4. New content. We waited for so long, you could reward our loyalty to this game by adding some new items/troops, for both single player and multi player, but I believe items are of much more importance for MP. You could add more existing items from the single player to multiplayer too. As for new items - I have noticed a lack of hats and feathered items. We could use a few of those. Burgonets too - you don't have those in your game at all. Perhaps some cuirassies, a new halberd model or two etc. These are less important, but would certainly be nice.


That is all I can think of right now, but my gut tells me this is not all.




 
My idea's for the multiplayer are:

Muskovite:
Inf's and musketeers are good enough.
The cav needs to be improved with better bows and muskets.

Polish:
Inf's and musketeers are good.
For the cav the lances need to have less damage or cost more.
The bows need to take longer to draw so you can shoot about 2 times in the time that a musket reloads and worse aim when riding but for standing still I think it is ok.

Sweden:
The infs are good.
The musketeers need to have worse aim or longer reload time.
The cav armor and the aim for the muskets is good I think but the muskets need to do less damage.

Cossacks
I think the infs are good without good armor because of their speed you can dodge bullets better but the spears are to fast so you can very easily spam someone (I am guilty of this).
The musketeers are pretty ballanced I think but maybe a little less damage.
For the cav I think worse aim (like the swedish cav is now) or less damage so you cant one shot people.

Crimean
For the infs they have to get worse aim for the bows and better aim for the muskets (I dont think they need more weapons because of the bows that they have).
I dont know much about the lancers (I never use them) so I have nothing to say about that.
Ofcourse the bow cav needs to have less accuracy and also less damage plus longer time to draw the bow.

For the maps the glitches need to get fixed the rest is not as important I think.
Also having two more smaller maps (like market place) would be great.
 
Guys, we need more activity in this thread if we want it to get noticed.

This thread contains very constructive ideas, unlike the previous several, which is a step forward I suppose.

I really want to emphasize how much I love with Fire and Sword. That is why I care so much about it staying alive and prospering.

 
IMO they should also generally balance something between the troopclassses muskets are overpowered I would say they should generally make all muskets more expensive or less strong.
Also I don't like the pike animation because it is unrealistic and overpowerd I would like to have warbands pikeanimation here.
 
that is something that is very importent to be changed and the rest is already listed by ncro and you i think
I can repeat that but that won't have any sence :grin:
 
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