Egypt, Morsi, and the coup

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I feel sorry for the younger generation, many of whom are liberals and wanted a democratic society, free of harassment and bigotry. Instead, they first got a theocracy-in-the-making, and now a military dictatorship-in-the-making.
 
He was replacing judges, expanding the powers of the president, attacked the media in a bid to gain control over it, and wanted to introduce more stringent religious laws. Keep up with the news, Kobie, will you?
 
He also claimed that the judiciary had no right to declare that actions taken by the executive were illegal.
 
Jhessail said:
He was replacing judges, expanding the powers of the president, attacked the media in a bid to gain control over it, and wanted to introduce more stringent religious laws. Keep up with the news, Kobie, will you?

Judges ?.... 529 protesters were sentenced to death  :???:

Expanding the powers of the president ... Not accurate and It was legal to do so .

Attacked the media .... media ? in Egypt ? They only lie .

He wanted to introduce more stringent religious laws ? ... I don't think he would have done that without taking people's opinion .

Keep up with the truth, Jhessail, will you?

:smile:

He was an elected president BTW .

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He was elected by a very slim majority. Unless you are elected to be a new pharoah the feelings of almost half the country should matter to you, at least a little bit.
 
Watch out, we got a zealot over here!

As president, Morsi granted himself unlimited powers on the pretext that he would "protect" the nation from the Mubarak-era power structure, which he called "remnants of the old regime" (Arabic: فلول‎, ALA-LC: Foloul),[8][9] and the power to legislate without judicial oversight or review of his acts. In late November, he issued an Islamist-backed draft constitution and called for a referendum, an act that his opponents called an "Islamist coup".[10] These issues,[11] along with complaints of prosecutions of journalists and attacks on nonviolent demonstrators,[12] brought hundreds of thousands of protesters to the streets in the 2012 Egyptian protests.[13][14]

Morsi sought to influence the drafting of a new constitution of Egypt. Morsi favored a constitution that protects civil rights and enshrined Islamic law.[70]

On 10 July 2012, Morsi reinstated the Islamist-dominated parliament that was disbanded by the Supreme Constitutional Court of Egypt on 14 June 2012. According to Egypt's official news agency, Morsi ordered the immediate return of legislators elected in 2011, a majority of whom are members of Morsi's Freedom and Justice Party and other Islamist groups.[73][74] A Morsi spokesman announced that the president-elect would appoint a Christian and a woman as vice-presidents,[75] but eventually appointed Mahmoud Mekki, a Muslim man.

Morsi also objected to a constitutional provision limiting presidential power.[79]

On 12 August 2012, Morsi asked Mohamad Hussein Tantawi, head of the country's armed forces, and Sami Hafez Anan, the Army chief of staff, to resign.[81] He also announced that the constitutional amendments passed by the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces (SCAF) restricting the president's powers would be annulled.[82] Morsi's spokesman, Yasser Ali, announced that both Tantawi and Anan would remain advisers to the president. Morsi named Abdel Fattah el-Sisi, who was then serving as chief of military intelligence, as Egypt's new defense minister.[83] The New York Times described the move as an "upheaval" and a "stunning purge", given the power that SCAF had taken after the fall of Mubarak.[83] Al Jazeera described it as "escalating the power struggle" between the president and military.[82] On 14 August 2012, Mohamed Salem, an Egyptian lawyer, filed a legal challenge over Morsi's removal of Tantawi and Anan, arguing that Morsi planned to bring back the totalitarian regime.[84]

Morsi fired two more high-rank security officials on 16 August 2012: intelligence chief Murad Muwafi the Director of the Intelligence Directorate and the commander of his presidential guards.[85]

On 19 October 2012, Morsi traveled to Egypt's northwestern Matrouh in his first official visit to deliver a speech on Egyptian unity at el-Tenaim Mosque. Immediately prior to his speech he participated in prayers there where he openly mouthed "Amen" as cleric Futouh Abd Al-Nabi Mansour, the local head of religious endowment, declared, "Deal with the Jews and their supporters. Oh Allah, disperse them, rend them asunder. Oh Allah, demonstrate Your might and greatness upon them. Show us Your omnipotence, oh Lord." The prayers were broadcast on Egyptian state television and translated by MEMRI. Originally MEMRI translated the broadcast as "Destroy the Jews and their supporters. Oh Allah, disperse them, rend them asunder," but later revised their translation.[88][89]

On 22 November 2012, Morsi issued a declaration purporting to protect the work of the Constituent Assembly drafting the new constitution from judicial interference. In effect, this declaration immunises his actions from any legal challenge. The decree states that it only applies until a new constitution is ratified.[91] The declaration also requires a retrial of those accused in the Mubarak-era killings of protesters, who had been acquitted, and extends the mandate of the Constituent Assembly by two months. Additionally, the declaration authorizes Morsi to take any measures necessary to protect the revolution. Liberal and secular groups walked out of the constitutional Constituent Assembly because they believed that it would impose strict Islamic practices, while members of the Muslim Brotherhood supported Morsi.[92]

The move was criticized by Mohamed ElBaradei who said Morsi had "usurped all state powers and appointed himself Egypt's new pharaoh".[93][94] The move led to massive protests and violent action throughout Egypt,[95] with protesters erecting tents in Tahrir Square, the site of the protests that preceded the resignation of Hosni Mubarak. The protesters demanded a reversal of the declaration and the dissolution of the Constituent Assembly. Those gathered in the square called for a "huge protest" on 27 November.[96] Clashes were reported between protesters and police.[97] The declaration was also condemned by human rights groups such as Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and Freedom House.[98][99][100][101] Egypt's highest body of judges decried the ruling as an "unprecedented assault on the independence of the judiciary and its rulings".[102] Abdel Meguid Mahmoud, a prosecutor appointed by Hosni Mubarak, declared the decree "null and void".[91] Morsi further emphasized his argument that the decree is temporary, and said he wanted dialog with the opposition.[103] Morsi's statement failed to appease either the judges or citizenry dissatisfied with his decision and sparked days of protests in Tahrir Square.[104]

On 8 December 2012, Morsi annulled his decree which had expanded his presidential authority and removed judicial review of his decrees, an Islamist official said, but added that the effects of that declaration would stand.[11][107][109][110][111][112] A constitutional referendum was still planned for 15 December. George Isaac of the Constitution Party said that Morsi's declaration did not offer anything new, the National Salvation Front rejected it as an attempt save face, and the 6 April Movement and Gamal Fahmi of the Egyptian Journalists Syndicate said the new declaration failed to address the "fundamental" problem of the nature of the Assembly that was tasked with drafting the constitution.[11]

Yeah, I thought he was a moderate guy, wanting to build bridges between the various groups in Egypt. Instead, he wanted to crown himself the sultan of an Islamist dictatorship.

By the way, a proptip, nomad1414, calling media nothing but liars, is not a very credible move.
 
Sultan is a noble title.  :???:
Theoretically he could proclaim himself Caliph, however since he had no link to Mohammed or the rightly guided Caliphs, he would be denounced as a Khawarij heretic which only such groups like Al-Qaeda would support, as they hold the belief any Muslim could be crowned a global leader of their faith.

Exiting that tangent, he has done nothing to deserve indefinite incarceration, torture or execution.
I just consider him a more ethically responsible leader, whilst I admit not by much, based on the fact that unlike his successors he hasn't used the judicial system to literally eliminate his political rivals.
 
Noble titles are always originally invented by people with the power to do so.
 
Kobrag said:
Theoretically he could proclaim himself Caliph, however since he had no link to Mohammed or the rightly guided Caliphs, he would be denounced as a Khawarij heretic

What? The Khawarij movement is (more accurately, was, since it doesn't really exist anymore, as it can only be understood in relation to the Caliphate of Ali) wholly distinct from the variety of political movements which support the reestablishment of the Caliphate. You don't need to have a hereditary link to Mohammed or the first four Caliphs to be a legitimate Caliph.

Kobrag said:
which only such groups like Al-Qaeda would support, as they hold the belief any Muslim could be crowned a global leader of their faith.

Are you dense? The reestablishment of a Caliphate is one of the stated goals of the Muslim Brotherhood.  :???:
 
Then I proclaim I am ignorance through lazyness. At least on the brotherhood front. :razz:
The rest I need better study on.
Though I expected the revolution **** was going to end badly, mainly since the Army in Egypt are one of the major land holders and if anyone tried to damage their income and power base, that person would be systematically destroyed. Mind, body and soul.
It happened somewhat differently to how I expected events to occur, some dumb **** made the corrupt, murderous bastards seem the best choice... even though they now happily sacrifice hundreds of their own citizens to maintain their position.

Edit:Co-codomol does not mix with internet usage.
 
Kobrag said:
At least they knew how to keep things somewhat stable.

I hate this argument. Stability is not inherently valuable, especially if this stability comes at the price of oppression.

Damnit, I had another response but you changed it. Oh well.  :razz:
 
I don't see how you could possibly want a bunch of religious zealots in the Middle East to elect a leader to unite them all, Kobrag. That's a nice way to kick off a global jihad.
 
Better than the poverty, wartorn **** hole of today though.
The empire was modernising, business was booming, and could have been forced to introduce some amount of democratic process into the political administration.
I also edited my post because I got self conscious, feeling drowsy from drugs after I pulled my back out. -.-


But discourse is ****ing discourse and I LOVE IT!


Edit@Mage: I alluded to every practicing Muslim. Not everyone is a zealot. And I did state it was most likely unworkable before my final edit.
 
Kobrag said:
Better than the poverty, wartorn **** hole of today though.
The empire was modernising, business was booming, and could have been forced to introduce some amount of democratic process into the political administration. . . .

Sadly, it doesn't seem to work that way. Once a despot, always a despot or something like that I guess.

The only positive thing I see in the wake of the "Arab Spring(s):" the battle lines between youthful/moderate/secular/freedom-wanting versus the various flavors of "authoritarian" are a bit more clearly drawn. Even in a place like Libya, much less Egypt, there must be tens or hundreds of thousands of 13 through 23 years olds who cannot deny the writing on the wall. It may be another 50 years of turmoil, and there may be half-dozen more Syria-style civil wars, but the days of a democratically backward Middle East are drawing to a close.
 
While the days of a democratically backward U.S. have only just begun.

So far these Arab and African springs are turning into heavily flooded, mosquito infested nightmares.
 
Anthropoid said:
Kobrag said:
Better than the poverty, wartorn **** hole of today though.
The empire was modernising, business was booming, and could have been forced to introduce some amount of democratic process into the political administration. . . .

Sadly, it doesn't seem to work that way. Once a despot, always a despot or something like that I guess.

The only positive thing I see in the wake of the "Arab Spring(s):" the battle lines between youthful/moderate/secular/freedom-wanting versus the various flavors of "authoritarian" are a bit more clearly drawn. Even in a place like Libya, much less Egypt, there must be tens or hundreds of thousands of 13 through 23 years olds who cannot deny the writing on the wall. It may be another 50 years of turmoil, and there may be half-dozen more Syria-style civil wars, but the days of a democratically backward Middle East are drawing to a close.
Worked in post war Japan.
Then again, the US spent Millions on reconstructing Japan economically and socially during it's occupation.
Something they really didn't persue in Iraq or Afghanistan.
 
You're right. Instead of spending millions on that, they spent billions. :neutral:

You can criticize where and how the money was spent, but you can't claim that it didn't exist.
 
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