Lord Rich said:
+10000000000000000000000000000
Well said chap!
Mount&Blade Warband version 1.157 patch released!
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+10000000000000000000000000000
Well said chap!
Schakal333
Since 1.57 my game crashs alot
I think you've all just been spoiled by having access to the scimitar for so long. They could have released the game with archers only having daggers or something and people probably wouldn't have complained that much. It's not supposed to be a melee class, but they've always been able to and still can hold their own in a fight. There are scenarios where there's no point in taking inf at all because archers/xbows can double almost as well.
The falchion holds up fine, it's a decent weapon. Greed must be pretty bad at this game if he's constantly losing to noobs all of a sudden because the stats have been changed around a bit.
The falchion holds up fine, it's a decent weapon. Greed must be pretty bad at this game if he's constantly losing to noobs all of a sudden because the stats have been changed around a bit.
Dr4g0nkn1ght
Sergeant Knight at Arms
Lets try to say this as simple as possible so everyone even the people who are scared of archers understand it:
Old version: +good balance, worked out for years
-some bugs and glitches
With new patch: +some bugs fixed
+some prices rebalanced
-nerf for archers and buff for most infantry and cav classes
--> messed up balance
Old version: +good balance, worked out for years
-some bugs and glitches
With new patch: +some bugs fixed
+some prices rebalanced
-nerf for archers and buff for most infantry and cav classes
--> messed up balance
African said:
Then remove the scimitar,thats fine for most people, accepting the falchion is tolorable aswell,but at the moment we have a stick with a few nails in it as our standard weapon. And no its not a melee class,but that doesnt meant we dont melee...We already have decreased stats to make us worse as infantry,which obviously is acceptable,archers SHOULDNT be as good as infantry in melee,and we`re not. So why did we get weakened even more?
I mustve missed those scenarios in my 3 years of competitive play, where infantry has pretty much always been the focus. Theres been some archer spam times obviously,but thats because clans enjoy archery,they have skilled archers,and they play to their strength. Never have I seen those teams rush us as archers, instead they set up crossfires and tear us appart. Problem with that? Not at all,our tactics were flawed,we messed up and were punished for it. We ***** and whine for a little bit and we keep playing...I admit I`m not the best at this game, I`m not the worst either. Wouldve been a great argument if I was the only one complaining about this.
Didnt I see BKS as 7 infantry 1 archer on a recent match? Shouldve gone 7 archers 1 inf and you`d have won that match.
Tobi
Many attacks are gone! The game will die with this patch...
Old version: +good balance, worked out for years
-some bugs and glitches
With new patch: +some bugs fixed
+some prices rebalanced
+barely noticable nerf for archers and small buff for most infantry and cav classes
+even better balance
-created a few new bugs and the pain of switching mods over
I was happy with the way things were before so I wouldn't necessarily agree that we needed this patch, but it's here anyway and I don't have any complaints. It changes the balance of things slightly but I would argue that the changes are for the better. Everyone is overreacting.
What's important is that you can still shoot people in the head just as easily.
I will leave the whole no need for inf at times thing alone. I don't know how you do things over on Europe and I don't make the calls around here. But from what I have seen, depending on who you're up against there are definitely times where "archer spam" isn't particularly risky at all. Just crossfire and kite, like you said. I'm not saying archers can rush inf and expect to survive a large melee, but if it comes down to 1v1's or they have to assault the flag they can still stand a pretty good chance. I've won and seen several 1v_'s won at the end of matches by archers. I won a 1v3 just the other day at the end of a scrim as an archer without a shield, and even if I had been using the falchion instead of the scimitar I doubt it would have changed anything.
-some bugs and glitches
With new patch: +some bugs fixed
+some prices rebalanced
+barely noticable nerf for archers and small buff for most infantry and cav classes
+even better balance
-created a few new bugs and the pain of switching mods over
I was happy with the way things were before so I wouldn't necessarily agree that we needed this patch, but it's here anyway and I don't have any complaints. It changes the balance of things slightly but I would argue that the changes are for the better. Everyone is overreacting.
What's wrong with that? Ideally this would mean you would have to sacrifice some of your archery potential in exchange for any sort of usefulness in melee, but I and very few people I know regularly upgrade the bows at all so that's not really the case.Colonel Greed said:
You're barely any weaker as is. For that one faction they took what was free access to one of the best swords in the game and replaced it with a bit inferior weapon you have to pay for. It's not an end of the world archers can never melee again type change. It slightly reduces your already decent melee capabilities and removes such cheap access to a high end weapon.
What's important is that you can still shoot people in the head just as easily.
I will leave the whole no need for inf at times thing alone. I don't know how you do things over on Europe and I don't make the calls around here. But from what I have seen, depending on who you're up against there are definitely times where "archer spam" isn't particularly risky at all. Just crossfire and kite, like you said. I'm not saying archers can rush inf and expect to survive a large melee, but if it comes down to 1v1's or they have to assault the flag they can still stand a pretty good chance. I've won and seen several 1v_'s won at the end of matches by archers. I won a 1v3 just the other day at the end of a scrim as an archer without a shield, and even if I had been using the falchion instead of the scimitar I doubt it would have changed anything.
Can't really see the patch unbalancing the game. In competitive play, people will just have to adapt their strategies. If you lose because your rangers were forced into melee and killed early on, then you ****ed up anyway.
If you think having your chance of losing to infantry in melee is increased a bit is unfair then you're just whining. If you lose to someone in 1vs1 melee it's because you **** up one time too many. Don't see people really *****ing about every class not being able to pick up bows and kiting people.
People ***** about Vaegirs being nerfed. So what? At least in the EU competitive scene, factions are switched. Doesn't matter if Vaegirs are as strong as before or not, you get to play against them too. If you lose as Vaegirs and lose vs Vaegirs, it's because you **** up. Not because Vaegirs got nerfed.
As for public play? It sucks anyway. Who gives a ****? You're more likely to be killed due to your teammates than your stats being lowered by 1 or getting ****tier eq.
EDIT: That being said, I have more issues with attack animations not showing with this patch than before. Only happened twice, sure, but that's more in a given amount of time than I recall ever noticing earlier.
If you think having your chance of losing to infantry in melee is increased a bit is unfair then you're just whining. If you lose to someone in 1vs1 melee it's because you **** up one time too many. Don't see people really *****ing about every class not being able to pick up bows and kiting people.
People ***** about Vaegirs being nerfed. So what? At least in the EU competitive scene, factions are switched. Doesn't matter if Vaegirs are as strong as before or not, you get to play against them too. If you lose as Vaegirs and lose vs Vaegirs, it's because you **** up. Not because Vaegirs got nerfed.
As for public play? It sucks anyway. Who gives a ****? You're more likely to be killed due to your teammates than your stats being lowered by 1 or getting ****tier eq.
EDIT: That being said, I have more issues with attack animations not showing with this patch than before. Only happened twice, sure, but that's more in a given amount of time than I recall ever noticing earlier.
If I may give a feedback:
The patch is kinda balanced and as a ranger I can still fight in melee as well as in the last patch. Dodging the cav is a bit harder than usual but it seems to be acceptable. As for Vaegir archers, free Scimitars were a bit overpowered. It is more balanced this way. Only thing I can complain about Vaegirs is that I cant get war bow in the first round with a decent armor and a melee weapon. As for other factions, it seems balanced to me as well.
Even though this patch solved some bugs, it caused some more as well, like the stair bugs. They should be fixed. Only thing that seemed bad to me is, default spear being able to rear horses. In my opinion if you are to stop the opponents cavs, you should pay for a better weapon to do so.
The patch is kinda balanced and as a ranger I can still fight in melee as well as in the last patch. Dodging the cav is a bit harder than usual but it seems to be acceptable. As for Vaegir archers, free Scimitars were a bit overpowered. It is more balanced this way. Only thing I can complain about Vaegirs is that I cant get war bow in the first round with a decent armor and a melee weapon. As for other factions, it seems balanced to me as well.
Even though this patch solved some bugs, it caused some more as well, like the stair bugs. They should be fixed. Only thing that seemed bad to me is, default spear being able to rear horses. In my opinion if you are to stop the opponents cavs, you should pay for a better weapon to do so.
Luckily ZHG isn't around anymore. They were all archer.Lord Rich said:
It is just about time when people get used to. I see this game balanced very well(besides khergits) and I think in the future it will be same. Tell me any week in WNL when in every team get as vaegirs vs any other faction 4:0. The equipment dont win a fight it still depends on player skill(and that is what I love on this game most) if you are not playing crpg.
Btw. I have same view on public playing as ryozu.
But the patch should be more focused on bugs for example walking through hitted player or slashing through dead bodies.
Btw. I have same view on public playing as ryozu.
But the patch should be more focused on bugs for example walking through hitted player or slashing through dead bodies.
Hamel
Sergeant Knight
So, I tried out the patch last night, and the experience matches my suspicions. Though the athletics decrease was even more noticeable in melee and less noticeable over long distances than I thought it would be.
It's definitely even harder than before to melee as an archer. Sure, it's still quite possible to fight a scrub in melee, but your chances against a skilled opponent are pretty much nil. Running (which is mostly unaffected by the changes due to the sprinting mechanic) certainly seemed a much more tempting concept than standing my ground. I usually stood my ground before, even if the chances were poor. But, now that the chances of survival are very poor, it's generally better just to run away.
The Vaegir archers suffer the most. They are now entirely limited to short weaponry, in addition to the athletics nerf. Because of this, they are easily out ranged in melee by anyone with even the slightest idea of what they're doing. It is also very easy to get around a Vaegir or Nord archer, making it significantly easier to flank or get sideswipes. In fact, it is fairly trivial for any two infantry to flank and kill an archer, with actual player skill having little impact. 'Nids are less affected by the nerfs than the others, as they always had crossbow level athletics and they're keeping their scimitars. I suppose Sarranids arguably have the best archers in the game now, since so many people prefer the nomad bow anyway.
While I didn't have much opportunity to dodge couched lances, dodging enemy projectiles is way more difficult than before. I can't really expand upon this more than that, but I can say I got hit by a number of crossbow bolts that would have been easily dodged before.
Archers always had terrible melee proficiencies and skills, moving and swinging slower and sometimes taking 3-4 hits to kill someone when they frequently only needed 1 to kill in return (assuming they're not wearing that expensive armor, which is definitely not feasible now). Now they also dodge at a snail's pace. There was a lot of camping last night, and I can't say I blame them.
Speaking of camping, archer ranged capabilities seem to be completely unaffected. On one Nord Town map we Vaegirs camped the spawn and archer spammed, and there was much rage. Nothing unusual going on there, except that there was a very high amount of campers, and relatively few people playing infantry due to Vaegir inf sucking now.
That was my experience playing archer, anyway. Playing infantry and cavalry was pretty much the same, though running down archers was a lot easier.
I did notice, however, a bug in the equipment screen when playing Nord Huscarl. When I attempted to buy: Some nord hat, a leather jerkin, the best nord sword, a heavy round shield, and a pack of light throwing axes. The gold meter said it was below 1500, something like "1465". However, when I actually spawned, I started with some lousy axe instead of throwing axes, and future viewing of the equipment screen read something over 1500, like "1545". The equipment loadout was, however, unchanged.
It's definitely even harder than before to melee as an archer. Sure, it's still quite possible to fight a scrub in melee, but your chances against a skilled opponent are pretty much nil. Running (which is mostly unaffected by the changes due to the sprinting mechanic) certainly seemed a much more tempting concept than standing my ground. I usually stood my ground before, even if the chances were poor. But, now that the chances of survival are very poor, it's generally better just to run away.
The Vaegir archers suffer the most. They are now entirely limited to short weaponry, in addition to the athletics nerf. Because of this, they are easily out ranged in melee by anyone with even the slightest idea of what they're doing. It is also very easy to get around a Vaegir or Nord archer, making it significantly easier to flank or get sideswipes. In fact, it is fairly trivial for any two infantry to flank and kill an archer, with actual player skill having little impact. 'Nids are less affected by the nerfs than the others, as they always had crossbow level athletics and they're keeping their scimitars. I suppose Sarranids arguably have the best archers in the game now, since so many people prefer the nomad bow anyway.
While I didn't have much opportunity to dodge couched lances, dodging enemy projectiles is way more difficult than before. I can't really expand upon this more than that, but I can say I got hit by a number of crossbow bolts that would have been easily dodged before.
Archers always had terrible melee proficiencies and skills, moving and swinging slower and sometimes taking 3-4 hits to kill someone when they frequently only needed 1 to kill in return (assuming they're not wearing that expensive armor, which is definitely not feasible now). Now they also dodge at a snail's pace. There was a lot of camping last night, and I can't say I blame them.
Speaking of camping, archer ranged capabilities seem to be completely unaffected. On one Nord Town map we Vaegirs camped the spawn and archer spammed, and there was much rage. Nothing unusual going on there, except that there was a very high amount of campers, and relatively few people playing infantry due to Vaegir inf sucking now.
That was my experience playing archer, anyway. Playing infantry and cavalry was pretty much the same, though running down archers was a lot easier.
I did notice, however, a bug in the equipment screen when playing Nord Huscarl. When I attempted to buy: Some nord hat, a leather jerkin, the best nord sword, a heavy round shield, and a pack of light throwing axes. The gold meter said it was below 1500, something like "1465". However, when I actually spawned, I started with some lousy axe instead of throwing axes, and future viewing of the equipment screen read something over 1500, like "1545". The equipment loadout was, however, unchanged.
I definitely agree with this.Dr4g0nkn1ght said:
Also, if scimmys for archers is such a bad thing........why does sarranid still have it? And why remove it entirely from Vaegir? Just make Vaegir pay for it like Sarranid do.
This patch seems so pointless, by all means fix bugs and so on, but why on earth would you change stats and equipment now?? The timing of all of this is just so random, it's like they just got bored and decided to patch the game to pass the time.
Exactly. You're supposed to give ranged support from long distances. By getting in melee you prejudice your team.
Dr4g0nkn1ght
Sergeant Knight at Arms
Why does everyone think being an archer means kiting, spaming arrows from far behind and being a noob in melee with no need for a decent weapon anyway?
The only place I ever got the impression of archer spam and archers being op was at siege servers with 100+ players and no class limits (or not noticable limits).
Of course most inf and cav players will be happy about a nerf of their archenemy and a buff on their side but how does that make any sense if you think from the perspective
of an archer? And saying that archers are too strong in melee is just dumb imo. They always had lttle chance against a decent inf(/or cav) player because of their lower stats.
I totally agree that tanking up as veagir archer was way too easy but taking away their prime melee defense is simply a bad excuse to make it even easier to kill them.
Making veagir rangers pay for their waepon is a good idea but taking it way and replacing it with a oversized knife doesnt make any sense for me.
Make the falchion their free weapon if you want but dont take away their only chance to buy a decent weapon (because every ranger class has decent weapons except for veagirs now).
The only place I ever got the impression of archer spam and archers being op was at siege servers with 100+ players and no class limits (or not noticable limits).
Of course most inf and cav players will be happy about a nerf of their archenemy and a buff on their side but how does that make any sense if you think from the perspective
of an archer? And saying that archers are too strong in melee is just dumb imo. They always had lttle chance against a decent inf(/or cav) player because of their lower stats.
I totally agree that tanking up as veagir archer was way too easy but taking away their prime melee defense is simply a bad excuse to make it even easier to kill them.
Making veagir rangers pay for their waepon is a good idea but taking it way and replacing it with a oversized knife doesnt make any sense for me.
Make the falchion their free weapon if you want but dont take away their only chance to buy a decent weapon (because every ranger class has decent weapons except for veagirs now).
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