Feminism

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 3 (members: 0, guests: 3)
I have an interesting little side-opinion about flamboyance (at least in the US). I feel that a lot (no assumptions on percentage however) of gay men feel forced by society to act flamboyant to express their sexuality. For example, some of my female friends were delightedly talking about how a gay male friend was developing a lisp, an accent and some flamboyant gestures. That kind of positive reinforcement of certain behaviors heaped on just because he's gay makes no sense.
 
That's awful but I'm not really surprised, similar stuff happens everywhere. As if being gay is okay but only if you fill out that stereotype. I know a number of gay guys and only very few fit it. It's ridiculous pigeonholing. Like that one female poster (can't remember her name now) here who threw a hissyfit because I was excited about shoes, alongside few other female posters, for "reinforcing negative stereotypes". Be who you are, or want to be, as long as you're not harming others. Same goes with the earlier discussion about gender neutrality. As people pointed up, the point isn't to turn girls into boys and boys into girls - it's to allow a wide spectrum of roles and "types" in the society. A female welder who outside the workplace wear frilly skirts and high heels? Awesome. A male nanny who bench-presses 200kg while sipping whisky and smokes fat cigars during his free time? Fantastic. And so on.

 
MadocComadrin said:
I have an interesting little side-opinion about flamboyance (at least in the US). I feel that a lot (no assumptions on percentage however) of gay men feel forced by society to act flamboyant to express their sexuality. For example, some of my female friends were delightedly talking about how a gay male friend was developing a lisp, an accent and some flamboyant gestures. That kind of positive reinforcement of certain behaviors heaped on just because he's gay makes no sense.
Click to expand...
There's a trend like that, a group of several girls/women such as those are encouraging this behavior in a male friend because they find it entertaining. It's the result of having females as a prolong main socialization source.
 
His accusation that you make accusations that are not based in reality is completely backed up by reality.
 
Jhessail said:
That's awful but I'm not really surprised, similar stuff happens everywhere. As if being gay is okay but only if you fill out that stereotype. I know a number of gay guys and only very few fit it. It's ridiculous pigeonholing. Like that one female poster (can't remember her name now) here who threw a hissyfit because I was excited about shoes, alongside few other female posters, for "reinforcing negative stereotypes". Be who you are, or want to be, as long as you're not harming others. Same goes with the earlier discussion about gender neutrality. As people pointed up, the point isn't to turn girls into boys and boys into girls - it's to allow a wide spectrum of roles and "types" in the society. A female welder who outside the workplace wear frilly skirts and high heels? Awesome. A male nanny who bench-presses 200kg while sipping whisky and smokes fat cigars during his free time? Fantastic. And so on.
Click to expand...

Some of the issue arises when you leave behind the simple possibility that maybe the vast majority of males don't want to go outside of their stereotype or the vast majority of females don't want to go outside of theirs. Does it mean that society is oppressing people because they don't want to act outside what they think is the norm? Encouraging people to act how they want is different than encouraging people to act equal.
 
Mage246 said:
His accusation that you make accusations that are not based in reality is completely backed up by reality.
Click to expand...
My statement is a logical conclusion based on the mentioned phenomenon. So, your statement  that is has no basis in reality, have thus no basis in reality by default.
 
Splintert said:
Jhessail said:
That's awful but I'm not really surprised, similar stuff happens everywhere. As if being gay is okay but only if you fill out that stereotype. I know a number of gay guys and only very few fit it. It's ridiculous pigeonholing. Like that one female poster (can't remember her name now) here who threw a hissyfit because I was excited about shoes, alongside few other female posters, for "reinforcing negative stereotypes". Be who you are, or want to be, as long as you're not harming others. Same goes with the earlier discussion about gender neutrality. As people pointed up, the point isn't to turn girls into boys and boys into girls - it's to allow a wide spectrum of roles and "types" in the society. A female welder who outside the workplace wear frilly skirts and high heels? Awesome. A male nanny who bench-presses 200kg while sipping whisky and smokes fat cigars during his free time? Fantastic. And so on.
Click to expand...

Some of the issue arises when you leave behind the simple possibility that maybe the vast majority of males don't want to go outside of their stereotype or the vast majority of females don't want to go outside of theirs. Does it mean that society is oppressing people because they don't want to act outside what they think is the norm? Encouraging people to act how they want is different than encouraging people to act equal.
Click to expand...

If you read that closely you will find that that was not a command.
 
Danik said:
Just as this accusation of yours, right.
Click to expand...

Sort of, in the sense that the statement that we need more ignorant posts like yours was sarcastic in it's entirety. Please take your **** elsewhere.

Danik said:
My statement is a logical conclusion based on the mentioned phenomenon. So, your statement  that is has no basis in reality, have thus no basis in reality by default.
Click to expand...

And yet you have no sources to back your statements up whatsoever. If you cite your own personal anecdotes, I have plenty of my own that contradict it.
 
Splintert said:
Some of the issue arises when you leave behind the simple possibility that maybe the vast majority of males don't want to go outside of their stereotype or the vast majority of females don't want to go outside of theirs. Does it mean that society is oppressing people because they don't want to act outside what they think is the norm? Encouraging people to act how they want is different than encouraging people to act equal.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure if were agreeing or disagreeing here.  :???:

The issue isn't whether people want to act outside stereotypical gender roles - it's pretty much a well-proven point that some people do. The issue is social pressure from your peers and from society in general. Examples of that have been kindly provided by Danik and our three Swedish PUA-champions in this very thread, and by a number of other posters earlier.

 
Epicrules said:
Danik said:
Just as this accusation of yours, right.
Click to expand...

Sort of, in the sense that the statement that we need more ignorant posts like yours was sarcastic in it's entirety. Please take your **** elsewhere.

Danik said:
My statement is a logical conclusion based on the mentioned phenomenon. So, your statement  that is has no basis in reality, have thus no basis in reality by default.
Click to expand...

And yet you have no sources to back your statements up whatsoever. If you cite your own personal anecdotes, I have plenty of my own that contradict it.
Click to expand...
Now, where's the souuurcee behind this? It was directly relevant to Madoc's post, which you haven't read. Madoc's post had the basis in reality which you accused of lacking first, to then going to 'complaining' about source. Why are you so suspiciously hurt, and have no justifications of your own? 

Everything you said so far, in essence -

Epicrules said:
ridiculous claims made with no basis in reality.
Click to expand...

 
Jhessail said:
What these people don't know, is that such "lines" are not poured in concrete but are actually drawn in the sand. They have changed throughout human history, they vary from culture to culture, and they will keep changing in the future.
Click to expand...
A reasonable post overall. Agree on most accounts.
My only issue was those parents throwing their kid under a bus, which you kinda didn't fully address.
Jhessail said:
The issue isn't whether people want to act outside stereotypical gender roles - it's pretty much a well-proven point that some people do. The issue is social pressure from your peers and from society in general.
Click to expand...
The issue is that society is not some abstract malign force, it's just everyone around you. And people are mostly intolerant and will execute pressure on everyone who disagrees with them on issues they find important if they can.
Including you, by the way.

That's probably the main reason stereotypes appear. And there's no reason to make it a gay issue, there is an expected and sometimes even enforced stereotype in every distinct group.
The fact that gay guys had that flamboyant and goofy thing going on in the 90s is just unfortunate, but there's nothing wrong with it. I think they've drifted a good deal away from that image today, btw.
 
They have had that "flamboyant and goofy" thing going on for thousands of years, just like those people who stubbornly insist on being left-handed no matter how evil it is to be left-handed.
 
Weaver said:
The issue is that society is not some abstract malign force, it's just everyone around you. And people are mostly intolerant and will execute pressure on everyone who disagrees with them on issues they find important if they can.
Including you, by the way.
Click to expand...
And your duty as part of that society is bending over and letting them have their way with you, right?
 
Sir Saladin said:
They have had that "flamboyant and goofy" thing going on for thousands of years
Click to expand...
No, they haven't.
For thousands of years homosexuality was something the most masculine and socially active men engaged in. Ancient Greeks, Celtic warriors, Germanic tribesmen, you name it.
So you are absolutely wrong implying that gay=feminine or flamboyant.
Bromden said:
Weaver said:
The issue is that society is not some abstract malign force, it's just everyone around you. And people are mostly intolerant and will execute pressure on everyone who disagrees with them on issues they find important if they can.
Including you, by the way.
Click to expand...
And your duty as part of that society is bending over and letting them have their way with you, right?
Click to expand...
Maybe your duty as a pro-change agent is to dress your kid as a girl and send him to school so that bullies could have their way with him? Yeah, don't be a conformist and throw your kid under a bus. If When he gets screwed by jerks because of your convictions - just say it's their fault.
Can't believe some people actually think that it's okay to raise awareness to social issues, however important, by putting your own kid in harm's way.
 
I will teach my son to hit the bully in the eye and then torture him with an armlock. And he can wear a miniskirt and thongs while doing it if he wants. The bullies don't go for the strange, they go for the weak.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

MP Historical Event - Battle of Clontarf
Replies
19
Views
671
TheFearlessHussar
Jezecek02
SP - General Spear Concerns and Challenge for Developers
Replies
15
Views
388
Yoshioki Ouchi
Yoshioki Ouchi
Piconi
Forum Structural Changes (06.12.2023)
Replies
2
Views
626
Swyter
Swyter
Back
Top Bottom