Pirates, treasure, ships, sea battles, and other things

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Wasteland_Warrior

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Some suggestions I think would make nice balancing and verity for the game,

perhaps adding sea travel, with sea battles like we have on land, only
it's with ships with arrows and some form of catapolts that toss stones,
or fire bombs, since having cannons would automatically mean peasants
could run around with guns to shoot at knights.

You could add infamous pirates with buried treasure and you could be
hired to deal with low level pirates till you had attained high enough
reknown to actually take on more dangerous and more profitable
pirate hunts.

You could buy or capture different ships.

Adding a crafting system to build armor, weapons, ships and so on, that
might add to the game, especailly if the loot needed to craft items with
special traits were dropped by rare npcs.

Fort and castle sieges, that would be neat, treated in the same way you
do land battles, except you have to either defend your castle, or lay siege
to one and try to break through the defenses to defeat your enemy. I see
lots of potential for neat weapons, catapults, siege towers, flaming arrows,
and so on.

Perhaps set up a way to join one particular lord, help him/her try to take
over the whole land, conquring one kingdom after another till every
terroritory was under the control of your lord. Perhaps even gain the
throne yourself by sieging your lord and taking the crown away from him/her.

Darklands had some neat features that might be worth putting in this
game, like special encounters where you had to make choices right
then and there, bribing guards to get in or out of places, attacking
robber baron knights' fortresses, and so on.

Just some suggestions, I know implementing them is harder to code then
just writing what comes to mind.
 
Interesting ideas that would be games unto themselves; literally.

The pirates idea sounds similar to games like Sid Meier's Pirates! (among others), Tropico 2, Pirates of the Caribbean (esp. the patched version) - and those games are solely devoted to the pirating life-style: treasure, ship fighting, shipbuilding, etc. . It appears to me, really, that implementing/crafting what seems to be an entirely new game that happens to use M&B as a foundation, would be a big task.


The castles idea (suggested by others too) also sounds like a potential game by itself. Sort of like a very good version of the somewhat mediocre Stronghold 2 PC game; which did try to make a castle simulator. Obviously you're not talking about exactly the same thing but even a good simplified version doesn't sound easy.


Although, there are ideas that in less complex form that might be more readily added: additional quests, sea travel, new weapons, etc.

I'm a big fan of new ideas that can be fitted into the game in more modest forms because I think a good game soon is better than a great game two years from now. Time marches on, game engines and graphics become dated, etc etc etc.
 
Im not to sure about sea battles but like john said... sea travel would be great you could really pick your path, you could go to a japanese continent and learn their skills... and use their weapons... you could go to some other continent learn their skills ext...

Sieges i would live to see this in the game it would make battles so much more fun. and add a lot more immersion into the game...
But VERY hard to code in the game
 
I agree that some sort of naval transportation would be really useful. You'd have to buy a boat at a port, have some crew to pull the oars and move the sails, maybe a few points in "seamanship" or "navigation", and then off you go ready to take the fight to the sea raiders. It would be a lot like travel on land, and there would be NPC ships on the seas to encounter too.

Naval combat is a whole new can of worms however. The best system would be where you could actually maneuver your ship within archer/catapult/greek fire range, taking into account changes in the wind, and then ramming and boarding the enemy vessel with all your men jumping onto their decks. Until then though, I would be happy with a cheap "autoresolve" system for naval combat.
 
JohnathanStrange said:
Interesting ideas that would be games unto themselves; literally.

Someday I hope to start up a game software company, but that's just a pipe dream. One of my main ideas has always been "why must games be only one thing, like either all combat, or all naval combat, or all crafting or economy sim?" I've always thought that a game that is good at air combat simulation and a game that is good at land combat sim, and one that is good at RPG would be GREAT if all these different elements were incorperated into one game.

I like sea dogs, it has a little bit of two worlds, mostly naval combat, but also some npc walking around rpg elements. The thing is, it's mostly a sea based game. Morrowind is mostly an rpg combat engine. M&B seems to be a realistic medieval combat sim.

I've studied programming a little bit in college and on my own, even tried
to program my own little games, so I know it's a very tough thing to do,
but some games stand out because they do things differently then other
games. Most game makers just clone the same ideas someone else came
up with, like all those doom clones that came out after doom, then all the
warcraft clones after the first warcraft came out.

My biggest desire is to basically create a virtual world with ai that is alive,
but in a virtual reality. Create at least a world in which all the npcs in
there react the way a person in real life would and you basically are free
to do whatever you want in that world. If you wish to run for president,
that's up to you. If you wish to play some world class burgler who steals
from the rich and give to yourself, that's up to you, but if you get caught,
your character will be punished as you'd expect to be punished in the real
world.

In my lifetime, I hope such a realistic game world is created, because I
could really dig living in a vr world like that and just exploring all the
possibilities of interacting with such a game.
Click to expand...
 
[b]Wasteland_Warrior[/b] said:
JohnathanStrange said:
Interesting ideas that would be games unto themselves; literally.

Someday I hope to start up a game software company, but that's just a pipe dream. One of my main ideas has always been "why must games be only one thing, like either all combat, or all naval combat, or all crafting or economy sim?" I've always thought that a game that is good at air combat simulation and a game that is good at land combat sim, and one that is good at RPG would be GREAT if all these different elements were incorperated into one game.

I like sea dogs, it has a little bit of two worlds, mostly naval combat, but also some npc walking around rpg elements. The thing is, it's mostly a sea based game. Morrowind is mostly an rpg combat engine. M&B seems to be a realistic medieval combat sim.
Click to expand...

I think I know what you mean: games right now have a way of modeling one thing very well, and letting the other "stuff" be secondary. An example would be Tropico 2 allowing the creation of a pirate kingdom and focusing on the kingdom's economy and society in an amusing way, but having no direct combat, no direct player control of ships. Another game allows you to direct combat and control ships, but has no economy.

No game does everything (or even many things) in detail. M&B does the combat very well though, and I hope some of the ideas you suggest find their way into the game at some point.
Click to expand...
 
I don't see why this would be that hard to implement. I mean, I'm not saying it would be easy, but it could be done like caravans or something. For example, from a coastal city, you can purchase ships of various speeds. From there, you can "Board" your ship, then you'll be able to move across water as your boat. You can guard caravans (If Sea Pirates were to attack you, it would go to a combat screen involving the two ships locked to each other by a small boarding plank. You gotta admit, dueling a Pirate captain on the plank would be a very interesting thing.)

Also, why would cannons automatically mean peasants could use guns? Cannons for a long time were unwieldable by people on land because they were huge and unwieldy. Eventually, medieval scientists figured out a way to create handguns, but it wasn't until a good bit later. Firearms had been in use a long time before the renaissance, on ships and such. Even a few castles had some cannons.
 
Corsair said:
Also, why would cannons automatically mean peasants could use guns? Cannons for a long time were unwieldable by people on land because they were huge and unwieldy. Eventually, medieval scientists figured out a way to create handguns, but it wasn't until a good bit later. Firearms had been in use a long time before the renaissance, on ships and such. Even a few castles had some cannons.
Click to expand...

I believe the first firearm invented was the handgun, it was invented by the Japanese, and the samurai class didn't like the idea of a weapon that made the peasants as powerful as the samurai class, so the weapon was banned from Japan and it had to wait a long time to finally be rediscovered.

I'm no expert, but I read that somewhere.
 
The Japanese never invented any sort of firearm, it was brought to them by european traders. The first "gunpowder propelled projectile" was in fact made by a monk named Schwarz in Germany in the late 1300s. And the arabs hold the invention of the cannon, it was called a madfaa. Needless to say both of these weapons were hardly weapons at all. More like really loud scary firecrackers, with no real usefulness.
 
Robbor said:
The Japanese never invented any sort of firearm, it was brought to them by european traders. The first "gunpowder propelled projectile" was in fact made by a monk named Schwarz in Germany in the late 1300s. And the arabs hold the invention of the cannon, it was called a madfaa. Needless to say both of these weapons were hardly weapons at all. More like really loud scary firecrackers, with no real usefulness.
Click to expand...


The first record of the actual use of gunpowder in Europe is a statement by Bishop Albertus Magnus in 1280 that it was used at the Siege of Seville in


1247

Roger Bacon gives an account of gunpowder in his Opus Majus. (Actually his account was written in cryptic form. See Read, T. Explosives (Pelican Books, 1942)


1267

Edward III used cannon against the Scots *
[*Date may be wrong as this is year of Edward's birth according to one site visitor.]


1327

Hand Cannon had appeared in the field of battle during the reign of Edward III in


1364

Hand guns were known in Italy in 1397, and in England they appear to have been used as early as


1375

The first mechanical device for firing the hand gun made its appearance in


1424

We hear of armour being penetrated by bullets and the hand gun showing signs of becoming a weapon capable of rudimentary precision by


1425

Henry VII organized the corps of Yeomen of the Guard, half of whom were to carry bows and arrows while the other half were equipped with harquebuses. This represents the first introduction of firearms as an official weapon of the Royal Guard


1485
Columbus discovers the Americas 1492

Rifling was invented in


1498

The first wheel lock or "rose lock" was invented somewhere about


1509

Firearms were recognized as hunting arms as early as 1515, and a book (Balleates Mosetuetas y Areabuces Pablo del Fucar, Naples, 1535) on sporting firearms appeared in


1535

Rifled arms had been made since


1540

The hair trigger was a German invention of about


1540

The invention of the typical Spanish lock is attributed by some writers to Simon Macuarte the Second, about


1560

The snaphaunce lock, the forerunner of the true flintlock, was invented about, or considerably earlier than


1580
 
"why must games be only one thing, like either all combat, or all naval combat, or all crafting or economy sim?"
Click to expand...

Ever heard the term, 'Jack of all trades, master of none'? Often it's better to focus with all of your effort on one element, since people will generally purchase a game because of that one element. Also, games take a lot of effort to design and create. Making a world with five or so different elements is the equivilent of making five or so games, all in one, and then trying to make them all work together without a problem.
 
the game could easily get the additional dept you are looking for without changing the way the game works.

i'm no fan of any kind of cannons or guns in this game (more a mod thing) but if you would make more continents and sea travel pretty much the way corsair suggests it your pirate idea probably can be done with only a reasonable amount of efford. I like the way corsair suggests it a lot. it's not that much work but gives much more dept to the game.
(and no horses at sea of course :grin: )

edit: spelling mostly
 
Gravelstone said:
"why must games be only one thing, like either all combat, or all naval combat, or all crafting or economy sim?"
Click to expand...

Ever heard the term, 'Jack of all trades, master of none'? Often it's better to focus with all of your effort on one element, since people will generally purchase a game because of that one element. Also, games take a lot of effort to design and create. Making a world with five or so different elements is the equivilent of making five or so games, all in one, and then trying to make them all work together without a problem.
Click to expand...

I understand the effort that goes into making a game, and I also understand focusing on a particular game type, budget constraints, easier for buyers to feel safe about what they are buying and easier on the coder if they only have to set down some basic game mechanics and then just build the game around those things.

Still, I love games like Ultima and even still think SWG was good *but poorly implemented*, because of all the different options you had in game. It was like playing in a real world. If you got tired of hacking away at a monsters, you could go and fish instead, and if that got tiresome, you could go dance for money, at least in SWG, or you could go craft.

It was just a suggestion, I doubt most of my stuff is practical, just ideas
to help them flesh out the game more.
 
Wasteland warrior...

The "cannons" used by Edward III were something called a firepot. Very similar to the madfaa, it was a strong wooden "bowl" with gunpowder inside it. They hardly even played a role in the battle of Crecy ( I assume this is what you mean) in 1346, the longbowmen were predominant in that one. And i was wrong, the german monk invented a practical handgun in the early 1300s, not late. But my point was, japanese did NOT invent firearms.
 
Robbor said:
Wasteland warrior...

The "cannons" used by Edward III were something called a firepot. Very similar to the madfaa, it was a strong wooden "bowl" with gunpowder inside it. They hardly even played a role in the battle of Crecy ( I assume this is what you mean) in 1346, the longbowmen were predominant in that one. And i was wrong, the german monk invented a practical handgun in the early 1300s, not late. But my point was, japanese did NOT invent firearms.
Click to expand...

The fact is the gun was probably invented by some guys who we will never hear about, probably named moeious, larrious and curlyious who promptly ended up blowing themselves off the face of the Earth and history never got to hear about their great invention.

I don't really care! Whatever came first, cannon, or the handgun, it means nothing to me.
 
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