TML Submod 1.21 for Brytenwalda 1.40 (Updated 11/27/2012)
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Hibernicus
Recruit
Foffy123 said:
Does this work with companion submod here? http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,211791.0.html
David_GP
Recruit
Is it compatible with the graphic pack for 1.41? I remember that the city textures in the global map didnt load and I had an error (Something of x texture is missing, I cant remember well), and i think its because its incompatible with the graphic pack
edited: I reinstalled the mod, then applied 1.41 patch, then graphic pack, then tml submod and spear overhaul, and it seems to work fine, so nevermind
edited: I reinstalled the mod, then applied 1.41 patch, then graphic pack, then tml submod and spear overhaul, and it seems to work fine, so nevermind
re: upper end unit costs -
One of the things that has always bothered me about M&B and WB was that the game breaks down at end game on several fronts. First and foremost is that there are numerous unbalanced game mechanics that only affect the player.
The most fundamental one is that the player can't even field an army of the same size that the NPCs do in late game, first because there isn't enough food available close at hand to keep them fed. If you've ever played end-game and had a stack of 600 guys, you know what it is like to go through more than half of 3 stacks of food every single game-day
The NPCs don't actually have to feed their units, so the broken-ness of that system only affects the player.
NPCs don't use a real income/expense system, they have abnormal/irrational stats (25 str! 10 power strike!, 500-600 reknown) - and combined with level scaling the game quickly gets completely out of hand.
Overpenalizing the player for tiered troops with cost only exacerbates a design problem, especially when the enemy has stacks of 400+ units. A fight between 300 light infantry and 100 core infantry against the typical random mix of computer units even with high surgery will run the player, fighting even odds, at least 20-30% attrition.
With those numbers, and with how the NPCs spawn troops rather than train them, it becomes impossible to keep up with the amount of troops the enemy armies generate even with enough surgery that half the losses are wounds.
This is a topic that isn't really discussed much, and I am not sure why. From my perspective, the end game issues are somewhat game-breaking.
So - complaining about lowering the (rather crazy) end game costs of units to me is a straw man argument. The fallacy here is that people who want to change the costs of units want to make the game 'easier' at end game. The ignorance is that the game is practically unplayable at 'end game' where stacks are 500+ in size, because there is no practical way to match 1-1 the armies the AI fields. The old cost system, a typical AI army weekly pay value averages anywhere from 8-18k for a king, and 6-10k for a typical noble. The economy in the game does not scale for the player in such a way that this is reasonable to meet.
I do, and I'd guess most M&B players game the system. I hope this doesn't butthurt anyone but you can keep track of paydays and stick your armies in a place that either a) won't charge you for them (boats/mercs whatever) or b) will charge half (keep/city). The system has always been broken at end game, and was really only manageable with workarounds.
The thing not to do is to lash out at an attempt to fix it.
One of the things that has always bothered me about M&B and WB was that the game breaks down at end game on several fronts. First and foremost is that there are numerous unbalanced game mechanics that only affect the player.
The most fundamental one is that the player can't even field an army of the same size that the NPCs do in late game, first because there isn't enough food available close at hand to keep them fed. If you've ever played end-game and had a stack of 600 guys, you know what it is like to go through more than half of 3 stacks of food every single game-day
The NPCs don't actually have to feed their units, so the broken-ness of that system only affects the player.
NPCs don't use a real income/expense system, they have abnormal/irrational stats (25 str! 10 power strike!, 500-600 reknown) - and combined with level scaling the game quickly gets completely out of hand.
Overpenalizing the player for tiered troops with cost only exacerbates a design problem, especially when the enemy has stacks of 400+ units. A fight between 300 light infantry and 100 core infantry against the typical random mix of computer units even with high surgery will run the player, fighting even odds, at least 20-30% attrition.
With those numbers, and with how the NPCs spawn troops rather than train them, it becomes impossible to keep up with the amount of troops the enemy armies generate even with enough surgery that half the losses are wounds.
This is a topic that isn't really discussed much, and I am not sure why. From my perspective, the end game issues are somewhat game-breaking.
So - complaining about lowering the (rather crazy) end game costs of units to me is a straw man argument. The fallacy here is that people who want to change the costs of units want to make the game 'easier' at end game. The ignorance is that the game is practically unplayable at 'end game' where stacks are 500+ in size, because there is no practical way to match 1-1 the armies the AI fields. The old cost system, a typical AI army weekly pay value averages anywhere from 8-18k for a king, and 6-10k for a typical noble. The economy in the game does not scale for the player in such a way that this is reasonable to meet.
I do, and I'd guess most M&B players game the system. I hope this doesn't butthurt anyone but you can keep track of paydays and stick your armies in a place that either a) won't charge you for them (boats/mercs whatever) or b) will charge half (keep/city). The system has always been broken at end game, and was really only manageable with workarounds.
The thing not to do is to lash out at an attempt to fix it.
So I've run into an interesting problem in base Brytenwalda that I haven't seen mentioned anywhere. I figure if I find a fix for it that I can offer you the code for that.
The problem I have is that I took over london, and land was for sale for about 1500, and developing new land was available for about 2500. I bought some amount of land, and then developed some new land and now I have negative income from the moneylender menu and my status report shows negative income.
The changes I would like to make are :
- it shouldn't be necessary to go to the city itself to collect income from land. that should be rolled up into the finance report.
- fix negative income
let me know if you have those on your radar.
Also I'd really like to add an hourly task that would calculate the army cost on an hourly basis rather than do a spot check at midnight of the end of the week to calculate weekly cost. The sudden calculation creates an exploit (stash armies at midnight) or a grossly unfair situation (player unwisely takes his armies into his stack at midnight, gets charged for the week.)
so I guess the list is actually somewhat longer. Some of these are things that I have already coded for other mods...
things that are broken :
- executing nobles causes faction drop with own faction. can cause players to have to siege their own city. This is silly. Remember Agincourt? If you don't, go look it up. The king of england executed ALL of the nobles who he captured at Agincourt and nobody declared war on England over it. The french certainly hated him worse, but then again - it's france.
Executing a noble should be a loss of honor, and definitely be impactful with that noble's family, and everyone who had a positive relationship with him - but really, who cares what happens to a guy you hate? Noone.
- Post battle scene flow after village defense is broken, usually doesn't show proper loot / prisoner screens.
- "Village defense" happens even when fighting units that were not raiding villages, and has a very long range.
- "Village defense" hurts player when player has a strong stack, and village defense substitutes villagers (lv 1 skirm) instead of player troops. Villagers are not player commanded and should not count against player roster total.
things I'd like to add :
low hanging fruit
- allow the player to interfere with other fights without being at war with one or the other
- allow the player to siege towns that he is not at war with
- do not cost food when player is in a city center he owns
- add beans/hardtack/dried meat barrel objects for feeding armies (food with 1000+)
- allow armies to be fed from supply wagon
- better passive recruitment. player puts money in a pot, and recruits wander to city-centers to sign up. works better than recruiters running around on the map dying/ getting stuck on terrain
- execute enemy faction kings. probably a good code reason for this as I don't quite know what would happen if a faction had no nobles. might be fun to find out.
- more food production in cities / villages
- higher chance of sneaking into towns with higher charisma / persuasion
high hanging fruit
- have npc troop recovery be linked to income
- normalize npc leader stats
- normalize troop stats (some of them are just dumb. 9 riding...)
let me know if you are interested in any of this
The problem I have is that I took over london, and land was for sale for about 1500, and developing new land was available for about 2500. I bought some amount of land, and then developed some new land and now I have negative income from the moneylender menu and my status report shows negative income.
The changes I would like to make are :
- it shouldn't be necessary to go to the city itself to collect income from land. that should be rolled up into the finance report.
- fix negative income
let me know if you have those on your radar.
Also I'd really like to add an hourly task that would calculate the army cost on an hourly basis rather than do a spot check at midnight of the end of the week to calculate weekly cost. The sudden calculation creates an exploit (stash armies at midnight) or a grossly unfair situation (player unwisely takes his armies into his stack at midnight, gets charged for the week.)
so I guess the list is actually somewhat longer. Some of these are things that I have already coded for other mods...
things that are broken :
- executing nobles causes faction drop with own faction. can cause players to have to siege their own city. This is silly. Remember Agincourt? If you don't, go look it up. The king of england executed ALL of the nobles who he captured at Agincourt and nobody declared war on England over it. The french certainly hated him worse, but then again - it's france.
Executing a noble should be a loss of honor, and definitely be impactful with that noble's family, and everyone who had a positive relationship with him - but really, who cares what happens to a guy you hate? Noone.
- Post battle scene flow after village defense is broken, usually doesn't show proper loot / prisoner screens.
- "Village defense" happens even when fighting units that were not raiding villages, and has a very long range.
- "Village defense" hurts player when player has a strong stack, and village defense substitutes villagers (lv 1 skirm) instead of player troops. Villagers are not player commanded and should not count against player roster total.
things I'd like to add :
low hanging fruit
- allow the player to interfere with other fights without being at war with one or the other
- allow the player to siege towns that he is not at war with
- do not cost food when player is in a city center he owns
- add beans/hardtack/dried meat barrel objects for feeding armies (food with 1000+)
- allow armies to be fed from supply wagon
- better passive recruitment. player puts money in a pot, and recruits wander to city-centers to sign up. works better than recruiters running around on the map dying/ getting stuck on terrain
- execute enemy faction kings. probably a good code reason for this as I don't quite know what would happen if a faction had no nobles. might be fun to find out.
- more food production in cities / villages
- higher chance of sneaking into towns with higher charisma / persuasion
high hanging fruit
- have npc troop recovery be linked to income
- normalize npc leader stats
- normalize troop stats (some of them are just dumb. 9 riding...)
let me know if you are interested in any of this
Vesku
Sergeant at Arms
I guess we have a bit different opinion on the end game difficulty. For me it's way too easy so I usually don't bother the trot through all the remaining enemy settlements. I play with around 100% difficulty, have double the xp gain to upgrade troops and still it's too easy to gain 500-600 elite and heavy infantry core and run through anything that stands at your way, even 2400 enemy troops. My current game is on day 450 (or close to it), I have 3 000 000 sc in treasury and gain 150 000 each week, if I need troops I can raise several hundred heavy infantry in a week by training alone. I hope that enemy lords would gain more troops faster than the present and the troop composition could be higher tier to keep the game interesting towards the end.
I don't use wagon so I can see your point in running out of food but there's several ways to get around that. One is to always buy all the bread from towns and stash the surplus in your household. That way you can dig into your reserves when towns can't provide you food. An other is to buy cattle and keep it with you, every time you need food slaughter some cows.
For example all my cavalry has 10 riding, just raise Agility to 30 and put enough points in riding. Enemy stats are not out of the sky, my best men are much better than any elite I can find. All my archers have over 400 in achery, heavy axe men too gain that in TH weapons in less than 30 levels.
I hate the village defense too and sneaking into towns, both are things I avoid if possible.
I don't use wagon so I can see your point in running out of food but there's several ways to get around that. One is to always buy all the bread from towns and stash the surplus in your household. That way you can dig into your reserves when towns can't provide you food. An other is to buy cattle and keep it with you, every time you need food slaughter some cows.
For example all my cavalry has 10 riding, just raise Agility to 30 and put enough points in riding. Enemy stats are not out of the sky, my best men are much better than any elite I can find. All my archers have over 400 in achery, heavy axe men too gain that in TH weapons in less than 30 levels.
I hate the village defense too and sneaking into towns, both are things I avoid if possible.
An interesting quirk I've noticed about village defense is that the raiders' horses are taken away. The player's force coming in to relieve the village still has their horses, giving them a huge mobility advantage. However, because Brytenwalda's major focus on shieldwall and infantry combat, and the prevalence of spears making cavalry taboo, cavalry in a player's army is either unheard of or constitutes a relatively minor part.
But even with the advantage of mobility mitigated in a village defense, I contend that the advantage is still in the player's hands. Let's look at the challenges facing the AI raiders. The enemy army is dehorsed, forced to use the Native Charge! order, and has to navigate geometry such as buildings and fences. Without ANY cavalry units to harass, the ability to hold and assume formations, and being separated by navigating through the village, I often see that the enemy charges out in an almost single file line to be followed up with the main blob a little later.
What I do is I often just back up and let the enemy trickle out to be destroyed.
If farmer spam is too much of a problem one way to fix it is this:
If you ever recruit a farmer to your party such as by rescuing one from being a prisoner, assign it to a group that you do not use (they are under Archers by default) and name it something like Fodder or Chaff, anything that designates them as expendable, really.
Now in village defense you can have the rest of your army hang back while you command just the farmers to run in and die. With them gone, some of your proper reinforcements can come and fill in their place.
But even with the advantage of mobility mitigated in a village defense, I contend that the advantage is still in the player's hands. Let's look at the challenges facing the AI raiders. The enemy army is dehorsed, forced to use the Native Charge! order, and has to navigate geometry such as buildings and fences. Without ANY cavalry units to harass, the ability to hold and assume formations, and being separated by navigating through the village, I often see that the enemy charges out in an almost single file line to be followed up with the main blob a little later.
What I do is I often just back up and let the enemy trickle out to be destroyed.
If farmer spam is too much of a problem one way to fix it is this:
If you ever recruit a farmer to your party such as by rescuing one from being a prisoner, assign it to a group that you do not use (they are under Archers by default) and name it something like Fodder or Chaff, anything that designates them as expendable, really.
Now in village defense you can have the rest of your army hang back while you command just the farmers to run in and die. With them gone, some of your proper reinforcements can come and fill in their place.
Vesku said:
I don't know that you are describing what I would call 'end game.' When I say end-game, I am talking like chess 'end game' where the player is coming up with a strategy with limited resources to overcome the AI prevalence. At 450 days with capped out stats and money, you aren't really seeing the issues I'm describing.
Dan11311
Sergeant
How is that even possible? Seriously? I have cheated to create a god-like character with max stats and I still don't get those kinds of results in training. Even when I had 1/3 to 1/2 the map in TML. I don't think I made that much money either but I cannot be sure. Have you done any modifications? I do know you can exploit the recruit troops button in towns and spam heavy infantry that way if you have good relations and a decent income.Vesku said:
But ... hundred companions? C'mon, that would make me crazy to manage them - i use max 12 in Brytenwalda (no Companion mod).
Seriously i think as well, that the Companion mod allows to cheat then, kind of cheating - one can call it so, because a mod that makes a game significantly easier is a cheat mod aka 'cheating', which means "modifying a game for a (drastic) advantage".
But why not, for everyone his preference ... Vesku, i still like you
Iirc., even the origin of game-modding was to build-in cheating codes. In other words, nothing special that Companion mod, i personally prefer a set challenge in a game and possibly increase it (where and when it makes sense to me, and yes, also possible, sometimes contents are senseless hard, merely imo. balancing bugs by the development which must be corrected), but most important is immersion.
Seriously i think as well, that the Companion mod allows to cheat then, kind of cheating - one can call it so, because a mod that makes a game significantly easier is a cheat mod aka 'cheating', which means "modifying a game for a (drastic) advantage".
But why not, for everyone his preference ... Vesku, i still like you
Iirc., even the origin of game-modding was to build-in cheating codes. In other words, nothing special that Companion mod, i personally prefer a set challenge in a game and possibly increase it (where and when it makes sense to me, and yes, also possible, sometimes contents are senseless hard, merely imo. balancing bugs by the development which must be corrected), but most important is immersion.
Vesku
Sergeant at Arms
I love managing them, having a uniform set makes my guard look amazing in the field (I have disabled all messages and signs from the battle so I can't identify units, banner shield is at the top of my purchase list all the time).
You can get better men at much faster rate from regular units, the advantage is that companions can't die but they are really poor fighters (I've modded them to lvl1 with inferior skills compared to original companions) for a long time which is why I rely on heavy mercs in the early game.
Talking about immersion, play with companions only and you get personal with every man/woman in your army.
You can get better men at much faster rate from regular units, the advantage is that companions can't die but they are really poor fighters (I've modded them to lvl1 with inferior skills compared to original companions) for a long time which is why I rely on heavy mercs in the early game.
Talking about immersion, play with companions only and you get personal with every man/woman in your army.
Sanguinary
Recruit
Seems to me like there's a bug when your female character is referred to as a male. Does this mod fix it?
Dan11311
Sergeant
So, I just downloaded the latest Brytenwalda version from ModDB. It's from September and it has all the graphical enhancements included. My problem is when I merge TML with this version of Brytenwalda the bridges don't appear correctly. There is just a land bridge with the actual bridge next to it. Sometimes, I'll even end up with a boat where the bridge is next to the land bridge. Is there any fix for this?Foffy123 said:
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