One guide to kill them all.

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sher

Baron
Updated guide (still "work in progress") is on second page now.
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,255110.msg7954757.html#msg7954757
 
There is already a really good guide out there on the internet now. I have it downloaded and on my dekstop.
 
Arcanum said:
There is already a really good guide out there on the internet now. I have it downloaded and on my dekstop.

Where? Maybe it will save me some time if it's good and covers what I want to write already.
 
The internet is a big place. I can't remember what I did on it 2 days ago let alone a few months ago. If you google prophesy of pendor guide I think it was one of the first few, one of those file sharing websites.

Or maybe I found a link on this site, I honestly can't remember. Sorry.
 
sher said:
Arcanum said:
There is already a really good guide out there on the internet now. I have it downloaded and on my dekstop.

Where? Maybe it will save me some time if it's good and covers what I want to write already.

It should be in word format in your module directory as it is included with the module download.

Otherwise, you can get it directly here: http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,190313.0.html

If it does not cover what you feel is adequate, then I encourage you to expand it.

Kindest regards,

Saxondragon

 
2 saxondragon, NicotiN

Yes, I know of these materials and it's not what will be covered though some facts will be mentioned one more time inevitably. I'll try to highlight key concepts which are somewhat difficult to understand when you deal with raw mass of facts and tips. It'll take some time for me to complete so later I'll just add another reply to lift up this thread when guide will be finished. It's just additional motivation to have thread to take care of step by step: feels like fun instead of some work to do in one large piece.
 
Hardly likely because those people who ask those questions that have been asked a ton of times before don't use the search function or try to look for any answers to their question. They just ask questions so they don't have to put any work in. :eek:
 
such guides won't be helpful for people who just don't have patience and spam the forum with little questions. since they don't need help anyway. they don't want to learn
however for people who use search function, and want to learn something it would be very helpful. for one i know i will read it.
i was very excited when i see the topic, hmm sadly it was under construction but i am waiting for a update :smile:

if i can help in anyway please ask me.

this is what i think was useful to me.
in my view its a good guide you may find something useful here but its old ->http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,182760.msg4380897.html#msg4380897
not bad it have some good information (ex: trade) ->http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,251721.msg6027504.html#msg6027504
 
I just downloaded the mod today, and I have to say I'm interested. I'm reading the included one too, but if you're covering some other content then this could be very useful.

-Drake
 
I made a pretty good guide that covers all aspects and i kept it as general as i could since this game is all about custom features and custom game play.If i would say more about it....would just make all players who read it play the same style and that's not my point.
For example, i don't do tournaments since i consider them cheating but for other players it's the easiest way to make money.I don't become a vassal any more, just a merc because i am an oportunist in the game and every game is different.
 
While reading this I had the same thought as the person above.  When you talk about the most efficient way to play, well there better be some math involved or else it'll be just another opinion because there are many ways to play and do well in PoP.  And for a definitive guide, there needs to be some experimentation and playtesting to determine a lot of debatable points of contention, such as companion equipment builds.

I equip myself with balanced light lance, shield, sapphire runed bow, large bag of Noldor arrows on a Noldor Spirit Horse.  Can there be a more efficient equipment build?  I don't think so, perhaps a substitution can be made to a regular lance which is range 190 instead of range 185 and only slightly slower, but otherwise, if you're going to convince me how I could be more efficient, you need to offer some proof or good argument. 

My companion builds are longsword (range 110 or so), shield, lance.  For those with archery like Ediz, longsword, shield, Noldor Composite Bow, Large Bag of Noldor arrows.  Can they be more efficient?  That's been the subject of debate for a long long time.  Based on personal observation, once companions with bows reach level 15 or so, they gain experience faster than those with just melee.  My companions with bows have jumped a level ahead of those without, starting at the same level.  Of course once they get to level 25+, they fall back to the same level since it takes a huge amount of experience to get to the next one.

Any guide that claims to be THE guide needs to factor in RANGE and SPEED with weapon choices on horseback, not just damage.  How the AI controls companions and the difficulty of switching weapons also has to be considered.  That's why giving companions ONLY longswords is something that may be the best build; I have to consider it, but playtesting is a must to resolve the issue.

The most efficient build has to be a female build to take advantage of having a husband lord and all that brings.  Just some thoughts.  If you're going to be ambitious, then don't do a half-assed job.  This is going to take a long time.
 
I equip myself with balanced light lance, shield, sapphire runed bow, large bag of Noldor arrows on a Noldor Spirit Horse.  Can there be a more efficient equipment build?

Sapphire runed bow with 3 large bags of noldor arrows, 104 arrows, jatu horse, 43 speed, 38 maneuver

1.5k vs 1.1k 110 kills in first battlefield, 2-300 kills overall. Battle size 500, full difficulties.
200 vs 53, 50 kills, 0 losses
30 vs 100, 70-90 kills, 5-10 losses
typically 300 vs 300, 20-40 kills, 5-15 losses

This is my experience as a late game HA, 500 days, countless battles, almost 5k renown, maxed stats. Because you can not only rack up kills, but direct enemy forces, my loses are normally under 5 for small parties and under 15 for vs 300 lord parties (13 surgery). Note this is on a battle size of 500, on 150, it would be alot easier to take out all their charging cav/two handers and reduce chance of a unlucky kill alot more.

I think comparing efficiency between HA and melee or lancers is like comparing apples to oranges. HAs are very much overpowered with the top tier bows. It comes down to DPS on the field. I take for granted that I can sit behind my decoy line and take out up to 5 charging lancer/horse and then 10-15 more in the first charge, then when their infantry gets to me, I lead them in a circle and take out all their non shielded elites and finish off by drawing their archery fire to me to let my troops take care of the rest.

From a max kill point of view, i think full archer is the most efficient. Everything else is just too slow.
 
well then lets start the armor part easy and useful.
suggestion -> lordly full plate armor (11/64/22) + lordly eventide helm (62/10?) in my view its the best mixture of head armor and body armor rating.
 
mordrax said:
I equip myself with balanced light lance, shield, sapphire runed bow, large bag of Noldor arrows on a Noldor Spirit Horse.  Can there be a more efficient equipment build?

Sapphire runed bow with 3 large bags of noldor arrows, 104 arrows, jatu horse, 43 speed, 38 maneuver

1.5k vs 1.1k 110 kills in first battlefield, 2-300 kills overall. Battle size 500, full difficulties.
200 vs 53, 50 kills, 0 losses
30 vs 100, 70-90 kills, 5-10 losses
typically 300 vs 300, 20-40 kills, 5-15 losses

This is my experience as a late game HA, 500 days, countless battles, almost 5k renown, maxed stats. Because you can not only rack up kills, but direct enemy forces, my loses are normally under 5 for small parties and under 15 for vs 300 lord parties (13 surgery). Note this is on a battle size of 500, on 150, it would be alot easier to take out all their charging cav/two handers and reduce chance of a unlucky kill alot more.

I think comparing efficiency between HA and melee or lancers is like comparing apples to oranges. HAs are very much overpowered with the top tier bows. It comes down to DPS on the field. I take for granted that I can sit behind my decoy line and take out up to 5 charging lancer/horse and then 10-15 more in the first charge, then when their infantry gets to me, I lead them in a circle and take out all their non shielded elites and finish off by drawing their archery fire to me to let my troops take care of the rest.

From a max kill point of view, i think full archer is the most efficient. Everything else is just too slow.


Hence the difficulty of determining best build.  With 300 vs 300 I also get around 20-40 kills, the biggest difficulty is running out of time when the battle ends.  I will use my bow to thin out the lines and target unshielded but dangerous infantry like gladiators and cavalry.  Then I'll use lance to target and stab cavalry and stab whatever infantry/archers are in the way when I go from place to place. 

Making enemy forces chase you does help a lot as it gives time for your archers and yourself to thin out the ranks before they can engage.  Your method is effective and I agree that for DPS, you can't beat a HA build, but what happens when you run out of arrows?  And when cavalry chases you, can't just turn around and stab them in the face.  I suppose I'd rather have the versatility of both bow and lance but it's difficult to say what an ultimate build should be.  Perhaps it depends upon what style the player is most comfortable with.


well then lets start the armor part easy and useful.
suggestion -> lordly full plate armor (11/64/22) + lordly eventide helm (62/10?) in my view its the best mixture of head armor and body armor rating.

Are you sure the lordly full plate armor has better stats than the Noldor items found in the special store?  And how does weight effect speed, even with high athletics (I pump very little into athletics)?  Will weight effect swing speed?  If so, then that has to be taken into consideration as well.  Not easy making a definitive guide.
 
but what happens when you run out of arrows?

I've actually only recently ran out of arrows since up to this point, i've not fought in more than 300 vs 300 ish battles and they are over so quickly. Now I've taken to stashing 3 large bags of bodkin arrows and do a quick dash back to the chest, otherwise, i get off my horse, pick up a sword/board and kill a couple more, but it's a far shot from sniping on the horse.

And when cavalry chases you, can't just turn around and stab them in the face.
It takes either 1-2 shots either to a non-shielded knight or to their horses' head to effectively render them useless as they'd be so far away from the main fight and singled out. Of course i can't do that to heavily armored knights. But turning and stabbing is so slooow too esp with knights in your arse and archers firing at my full gallop.

And how does weight effect speed
Always wanted to know this. Lordly full plate? never seen it in 600 days of playing so it'd be useless to me to say that's the best armor, what about the rest?
Also, I'm tossing up between 60 body 32 weight armor that i nicked off siggy vs 57 body full plate but at 27 weight. I'd be very interested to know the relationship between athletics, weight (are weapon weight counted too? because that would reduce the importance of just looking at armor weight), str (is it just me that notice you get into run animation faster with a higher str?) and what is the actual effect of having 57 instead of 60 body armor? Would most weapons still bounce off at 0 damage?

These would be my questions on armor. Not just which one gives the best balanced or highest points.
 
Encumbrance does not affect your weapon swing speed. It affects your running speed. Makes sense, eh? Running fullily clad in steel plate, chain and gambeson with a full visored helmet may be a tad less exhausting than running the same distance with a leather jerking and kettle helmet instead. The best armour is most likely the one giving you the best defence/weight ratio. This means you end up with either some Demonic Skin or Noldor garb.

The best build is the one which favours your style of gameplay most and suits the role you envision for yourself best. I could never play a horsearcher or foot archer just like others can´t play a melee fighter or lancer because it feels wrong for them.

It does not come down to useless things like DPS etc. It comes down to personal fun. It´s a sandbox game, not some crappy MMRPG where you need certain equipment or builds to even be considered joining a party or surviving an area.
Even at level 45 you got lots of decent competition - fair competetion, not overpowered. A peasant with a sickle may try to cut through your fine platemail and hence do little damage, whereas the javelin thrown through your visor will instantly kill you. Just like the huge halberd cracking your skull.

And yes, horsearchery and archery in general is hugely overpowered in MnB and WB - blame Taleworlds. I suspect they overlooked it in native back then because how else could you explain all the bows have pinpoint accuracy with such a huge PD bonus whereas crossbows got that little love. Drat the English and the HYW for that prejudice.

I reckon that has been balanced a bit better in PoP. Of course, the people freshly arriving in Pendor are greatly upset because they can´t hit **** and miss a barn door, but becoming an excellent archer needs and needed dedication.


@mordrax:
Turning and stabbing isn´t too slow at all because what you do as lancer or cav unit is getting that bogey off your six and the remaining ratpack on your tail split up. One usually rides large 8 for that purpose, possibly around some kind of distraction. Brings you up for a straight on engagement and with a decent poke to the head using something shifty, like a decent lance of good length, you kill the opposition faster than they kill you.
It needs some practice to get the feeling for when to strafe off to avoid blows but one gets the hang of it pretty easily. Just keep in mind to jump over obstacles to avoid getting clotted up. But that´s basic mounted warfare.

The same goes for horsearchers. Ideally, you´ve got an equally fast or faster horse than them and as has already been mentioned, a HA without horse is dead meat. You try to get on his blind right back and close the distance. He´ll try to get you on his left side so he can shoot on you - something you can abuse to closen the distance even further. Once you´re in range he´ll usually try to turn away and slow down his horse. Though by that time you should have already killed either him or his horse.

How damage works has been explained pretty well in the past, so if you want more than a crude summary, look it up with our old friend the search function, in the wiki or possibly, even in the .doc guide. If all else fails, visit the Forge.

The base damage of your weapon is multiplied with various modifiers for e.g relative speed, power strike and ends up with a number, lets say 100. Now, according to they type of damage a percentage of it is soaked up by your precious armour. Lets assume it was blunt damage, and 35% is soaked up by your armour. You recieve 65 damage. You were hit on the head. You wear a kettle helmet with 33 AC. 32 damage recieved.

Doesn´t look impressive at all, but a 30-35hp hit is usually half the players health and do not forget the sneaky speed modifer works awesomely for and against you.

Since STR affects encumbrance just as athletics you the run animation starts earlier because you´re less affected by it.
 
I've reached letters limit for first message so I'll create some post reservations to split it. It was long time but suddenly I lost inspiration :smile: Now, I'm back to M&B and have started fresh new game so I'll continue with this guide. Sorry if you were disappointed with "progression" of this work.
 
Since I'm bumping into stuff like "I have 100 men party, cool looking helmet with horns, now guys tell me how to start my kingdom with this (crap)" far more often than before here, I've decided to write a guide how to play this game efficiently. It will be based on my experience throughout numerous playthroughs, not some fiction ideas. Then I'll be able just to point to some section of it instead of typing many letters over and over.

This guide will not be wiki-like (PoP wiki is here http://pop3.wikia.com/wiki/Prophesy_of_Pendor_3_Wiki) - it will be the description of methods how to kick ass to fulfill the Prophecy, not the complete list of facts or tips for total newbies. So, no "roleplay" and such kind of things, only efficiency. I use this forum for language practice, so if you'll see some errors in text, grammar or any other, please, do not be shy to tell me - it will be of great help to me, since my native language is not English. Thanks in advance.

For a start there will be a skeleton of full guide structure that I will fill with information in time. Step by step. It's better than reading another "AI CHEATING! WHAT'S GOING ON HERE?!!!" topic, I think. Chunks of information will be in spoilers for more comfort. Just a life from the beginning of adventure to becoming king and uniting the land.


0. Game version and settings.
Just to be sure what we are talking about.

Version: PoP version 3.611 for Warband 1.153.
Settings: full damage, fastest and best AI possible, auto-block and couching, battle size 150.

I do not use manual block since battles are intense enough with manual strikes already and couching is enough nerfed as it is in Warband. Also I do not use external tools to increase battle size - only what is in the game. Other options have default values, only lords do not bring their fiefs to my faction.


1. General information.
Important tips and considerations for the game as a whole. Strongly recommended for reading since these principles will affect further material heavily.

First of all - this mod is indeed for experienced players from experienced players. It provides challenge, it was designed for it hence reckless behavior and stupid inappropriate "heroic" acts will be punished. In some situations it is sadistic even just to remind player that life is not a honey barrel and **** happens.

Troops in this mod are elite with very high skills and pros (weapon proficiencies) => you'll not be able to slaughter dozens with repeated swings on regular basis. Only with premium and expensive equipment you'll be able to outclass them (some of them) with "numbers" of your player character.

Also you'll not be able to spam "the best stuff" because it will be ruinous to your money reserve and ineffective. There are money issues in this mod, yes.

This mod encourages using of brain - the real advantage of player. The proper usage of this thing will make the player the most dangerous and important person on a battlefield able to bring victory even to "hopeless" situation. But actually the proper usage will lead to avoiding such situations in the first place. Player is not another soldier - he is the commander and strategist in this mod, not some badass combatant (not in the first place). Your AI controlled soldiers cannot do what is appropriate without your commands, you cannot command all what you wish to (as human) - you'll need to interfere in events in order to change them in such way that your brainless tools with limited command options will do the job. For this to happen you need to stay alive and mobile. In native or some other mods with lesser challenge it is not that much important but in this mod with its combat system and features it's crucial.

This leads to the first main principle of effective playing in this mod:
1.1. Never, NEVER duel on the battlefield if you have choice.
All (majority) of your kills must be "surprise" kills of unprepared opponents. It's not only about your survival (though they indeed can kill you in 1-3 hits) but also it's about your kill rate: these frigging magicians can parry full speed rider's lance strike with cheap sabre if they combat you - you'll just lose time. You can score 3-10 times more surprise kills or you can play some stupid hero. You'll have plenty of opportunities to demonstrate your combat skills and reflexes and field battle when you're mounted and do not have to "change events" (later in section 2.1. about combat system) is NOT such opportunity to demonstrate what a berserker you are. Your troops are your shield since they distract enemies, soak their fire and damage. And your troops are your sword to deal with danger which is not wise for your character to neutralize personally.

The second main principle of this mod:
1.2. Quality is better than numbers if numbers are not overwhelming.
Troops in this mod are like "fodder-decent combatants-elite". Their pros are from very low to very high. If you have low weapon proficiency you'll not be able to even touch your opponent if his proficiency is much greater than yours. One elite soldier can slaughter dozen or few dozens "fodder" soldiers if they are "dueling". The size of your party will affect its speed, renown and loot you'll get after combat  - it directly affects the speed of your development and accomplishments. Elite party will suffer fewer casualties - you'll be able to heal your soldiers faster and to combat without pauses. It's almost always better to use best possible soldiers with reasonable upkeep.

The third not principle but very important thing to know:
1.3. Most profitable thing in this mod is selling prisoners.
Prisoner price depends on his level and there is plenty of high level troops hence selling prisoners is the most lucrative thing and the main source of income in most phases of the game. After a large lords battle you'll easily end up with 60 prisoners with average price of 400 denars per head. 20-30K as a bonus to loot and you do not have to worry about merchants money reserves and inventory space.
 
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