Dragoons are getting ridiculous.

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Thokan said:
Talii said:
Thokan said:
matmannen said:
Untill I see the devs saying that this DLC is all about infantry and we will sacrifice the balance and fun from other classes in favor of infantry all talk of infantry being main focus is pure BS to me. FACT.  :razz: :razz:
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The game is designed for mass infantry-play, and most people play infantry. What else do you need to know?
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If the game were indeed designed for mass infantry, why did the developers go trough to much trouble to get the cavalry in it?

Your reasoning is faulty, and as Matmannen Said, Unless Vince state elsehow, for me this game will be around the napoleonic wars, not Infantry in the napoleonic Wars.

And, once again, Can you please present sources to these claims?  :wink:
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Infantry does not have a player limitation?
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Which Might be because of the fact that Infantry, Historicly, where Cheaper and faster to train and equip, which lead to them beeing used in higher ammounts then Cavalry?

Also, the limitation is Server-Side, not hard coded.
 
Talii said:
Thokan said:
Talii said:
Thokan said:
matmannen said:
Untill I see the devs saying that this DLC is all about infantry and we will sacrifice the balance and fun from other classes in favor of infantry all talk of infantry being main focus is pure BS to me. FACT.  :razz: :razz:
Click to expand...

The game is designed for mass infantry-play, and most people play infantry. What else do you need to know?
Click to expand...

If the game were indeed designed for mass infantry, why did the developers go trough to much trouble to get the cavalry in it?

Your reasoning is faulty, and as Matmannen Said, Unless Vince state elsehow, for me this game will be around the napoleonic wars, not Infantry in the napoleonic Wars.

And, once again, Can you please present sources to these claims?  :wink:
Click to expand...

Infantry does not have a player limitation?
Click to expand...

Which Might be because of the fact that Infantry, Historicly, where Cheaper and faster to train and equip, which lead to them beeing used in higher ammounts then Cavalry?

Also, the limitation is Server-Side, not hard coded.
Click to expand...

And that is not a design for mass infantry play?
 
Dragoons are fun to go against. Sure I get a bit frustrated if they shoot my horse or even kill me. That's what makes the game challenging though, and a challenging game is a fun game. People whining about anything in game is just pure noobish, and people wanting things to get nerfed to better favor them is just pure ignorance.


 
Thokan said:
And that is not a design for mass infantry play?
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I hardly think so. As I Said, Limitations are on the behalf on the server admins, and Vince & CO has not been limiting Cavalry Code-Wise.
 
(I'm just going to ignore the previous conversation and post what I meant to post yesterday.)

After a few days playing almost exclusively as heavy cavalry, I can say with complete confidence that they are the only ones who can really complain about dragoons, as they currently have no way at all to counter them.

Also, I dare say that a good solution to the dragoon 'problem' is something that will piss most people off;
Give all cavalry some form of firearm, bring dragoons up to par with heavy cavalry, then drop off the accuracy of all cavalry classes.

This would do a few things;
First, it would allow all cavalry to hold their own against dragoons, who currently have a monopoly on mounted firearms.
Second, it would eliminate the distinction between 'normal' cavalry and dragoons, thus getting rid of what is currently a class composed entirely of compromises.
Third, it would allow for infantry to have a more distinct advantage over cavalry in terms of firearm usage, due to all cavalry being less accurate than dragoons are now.
Also, the reducing of accuracy would make firearms more of a weapon to be used in the charge, against massed infantry, rather than something to be used at range against single targets.
 
TheBoberton said:
(I'm just going to ignore the previous conversation and post what I meant to post yesterday.)

After a few days playing almost exclusively as heavy cavalry, I can say with complete confidence that they are the only ones who can really complain about dragoons, as they currently have no way at all to counter them.

Also, I dare say that a good solution to the dragoon 'problem' is something that will piss most people off;
Give all cavalry some form of firearm, bring dragoons up to par with heavy cavalry, then drop off the accuracy of all cavalry classes.

This would do a few things;
First, it would allow all cavalry to hold their own against dragoons, who currently have a monopoly on mounted firearms.
Second, it would eliminate the distinction between 'normal' cavalry and dragoons, thus getting rid of what is currently a class composed entirely of compromises.
Third, it would allow for infantry to have a more distinct advantage over cavalry in terms of firearm usage, due to all cavalry being less accurate than dragoons are now.
Also, the reducing of accuracy would make firearms more of a weapon to be used in the charge, against massed infantry, rather than something to be used at range against single targets.
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And then we would have dragoons, worse then any other cavalry class in melee, but equal in ranged. Who'd like to play dragoon in this case?

Your proposal would, Sadly, completely ruin the class.
 
Talii said:
And then we would have dragoons, worse then any other cavalry class in melee, but equal in ranged. Who'd like to play dragoon in this case?

Your proposal would, Sadly, completely ruin the class.
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TheBoberton said:
bring dragoons up to par with heavy cavalry
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I can only assume you didn't read that part of it.

Essentially, I am saying that dragoons could become what they actually were; Heavy Cavalry, with a lower pay and less glory.
 
TheBoberton said:
Talii said:
And then we would have dragoons, worse then any other cavalry class in melee, but equal in ranged. Who'd like to play dragoon in this case?

Your proposal would, Sadly, completely ruin the class.
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TheBoberton said:
bring dragoons up to par with heavy cavalry
Click to expand...

I can only assume you didn't read that part of it.

Essentially, I am saying that dragoons could become what they actually were; Heavy Cavalry, with a lower pay and less glory.
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I would still prefer one specialist ranged class over all of them beeing crappy at Shooting. And Turning all Dragoons in this game into Heavy Dragoons will never happen, Vince is reluctant to replace even the 23 Light with Hussars.
 
matmannen said:
Untill I see the devs saying that this DLC is all about infantry and we will sacrifice the balance and fun from other classes in favor of infantry all talk of infantry being main focus is pure BS to me. FACT.  :razz: :razz:
Click to expand...
If you played NW 1.0-1.5 you know that infantry was horribly overpowered and essentially easy-mode. Average infantry guy could slaughter 15 cavalry, after wiping out 20 officers in melee for warm-up. So yeah, this DLC was centered around infantry.
However, since the latest patch, cavalry got it's spot under the sun and line infantry isn't be-all-end-all class, but it is really obvious that melee was untested and classes unbalanced to the point of pure bull**** at NW release (also, taking stuff from WFaS is bound to have bad results if you hope for playable game). Now infantry fights actually have skill ceiling higher than I can spit, and although things could be better it's quite playable now.

Talii said:
If the game were indeed designed for mass infantry, why did the developers go trough to much trouble to get the cavalry in it?
Click to expand...
What trouble?

Talii said:
Thokan said:
And that is not a design for mass infantry play?
Click to expand...

I hardly think so. As I Said, Limitations are on the behalf on the server admins, and Vince & CO has not been limiting Cavalry Code-Wise.
Click to expand...
Usually official servers are on settings on which the game is balanced and meant to be played.

TheBoberton said:
Talii said:
And then we would have dragoons, worse then any other cavalry class in melee, but equal in ranged. Who'd like to play dragoon in this case?

Your proposal would, Sadly, completely ruin the class.
Click to expand...

TheBoberton said:
bring dragoons up to par with heavy cavalry
Click to expand...

I can only assume you didn't read that part of it.

Essentially, I am saying that dragoons could become what they actually were; Heavy Cavalry, with a lower pay and less glory.
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Since there is no way to simulate lower pay or glory in Warband, you would turn dragoons into heavy cavalry with uglier uniforms? If dragoons were heavy cavalry there's no point in dragoons being separate class.
 
Oposum said:
Since there is no way to simulate lower pay or glory in Warband, you would turn dragoons into heavy cavalry with uglier uniforms? If dragoons were heavy cavalry there's no point in dragoons being separate class.
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Aye, this is true; just as there's no point in each faction having more than one line infantry class, other than to provide uniform variations.
 
TheBoberton said:
Oposum said:
Since there is no way to simulate lower pay or glory in Warband, you would turn dragoons into heavy cavalry with uglier uniforms? If dragoons were heavy cavalry there's no point in dragoons being separate class.
Click to expand...

Aye, this is true; just as there's no point in each faction having more than one line infantry class, other than to provide uniform variations.
Click to expand...
Line infantry IS class, individual line infantry regiments are derived from the definition of line infantry class. Dragoons != heavy cavalry, they're two distinctive classes, although you can have several heavy cavalry regiments they're all made from heavy cavs template, while any dragoon regiment follows dragoon template. Making dragoons == heavy cavalry would remove one class from the game, while factions would get one more heavy cavalry regiment.
Having dragoons fill the niche role between hussars and heavy cavalry as medium cav (with no guns, but they would need to get their stats buffed) would actually make them useful.
Turning them into mounted infantry would be even better, but as it's not historically accurate maybe medium cav role would be better.
 
At a similar skill level, cav and infantry will fare similarly. The main difference is the combat. A fight between two foot soldiers is dynamic and rather interesting and so is combat between two mounted soldiers. But combat between cavalry and infantry is mainly based on surprise and is usually without fights. Infantry on the other hand has muskets which helps balance the surprise advantage cavalry has. It's only up to each soldier to use his shots wisely.

Dragoons aim badly at a distance and aren't much more a nuisance to infantry as other cavalry types are up close.
 
dion1195 said:
Chosen1 said:
I've had it with the d*mned cavalry, dragoons especially. If you are playing infantry against a dragoon, there is no almost no counter. Their muskets do almost the same amount of damage and have nearly as much as accuracy when sitting still. All a dragoon has to do to get kills is to

1. Run up to infantry
2. Shoot
3. If miss, trot away safely, reload, and go back to 1
4. If hit, repeat over and over until your KDR is outstandingly high

And the patch that nerfed the bayonet and buffed the cav weps doesn't help either.

/rant

"LOLOLELELEL UMAD"

Lol, screw off.
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i think u suck since cav is already weak since with a sword it is hard to kill someone with bionet....
and don't complain about it since bionets are op.
back of rifle is op.
art sword (short one) op

learnto life with it
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I've been in melee with Neville a few times to know he doesn't suck...this topic was prob born out of rage in that he killed four or five only to have a goon pb with a musket.

It happens but it's all part of the game, and could of happened irl if the situation presented itself. 
 
damonkey said:
[me=damonkey]was going to input a suggestion, but realises that removing firing from horseback seems "extreme" to the "community"[/me]
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Meh. People just like to cling to their nubby horseback-firing instead of having a interesting and versitile game.
 
Thokan said:
damonkey said:
[me=damonkey]was going to input a suggestion, but realises that removing firing from horseback seems "extreme" to the "community"[/me]
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Meh. People just like to cling to their nubby horseback-firing instead of having a interesting and versitile game.
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If anything, Firing from horseback adds to the versatility by giving dragoons a chance to take on infantry.
 
I'm in a dragoon regiment and i never saw our dragoons running to the inf , shoot and run away to reload .we always charge after we shot first .Dragoons are mounted Infantry and they only use horses to attack the enemy faster or eliminate the rest of a line
 
[5tesKDR]Romanov[69thNY] said:
I'm in a dragoon regiment and i never saw our dragoons running to the inf , shoot and run away to reload .we always charge after we shot first .Dragoons are mounted Infantry and they only use horses to attack the enemy faster or eliminate the rest of a line
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There is a huge difference in the playstyle from Dragoons in linebattles and Dragoons in EU1. Or other public servers for that matter.
 
Dragoons are fine as they are the only thing I could possibly fix about them is their ability to reload a cavalry musket on horseback (carbines are fine) just simply because its nearly impossible to load a large musket on a horse w/o botching the reload.

People who keep complaining about cavalry being op really don't get that certain aspects of the game are supposed to be op.  Lancers for instance irl had 25 foot lances & if they missed w/ their pretty lance their horse would trample you and break your bones :3, however to be fair to everyone they shortened and nerfed lances for game plays sake.  Dragoons can barely shoot while moving and must come to a complete stop to get the reticle steady enough to shoot. This is both realistic and adds to the balance of gameplay.

Even if you were to force dragoons to dismount while firing you would still have them being able to remount in five seconds and run away.

TLDR; I dont like complaints and think dragoons are fine :3
 
Don't really think Dragoons are an issue but don't really understand why the bayonet length was changed either.  So many glitch kind of things that protect cavalry players anyway(due to the engine not Napoleonic Wars itself), such as riders going into objects when they fall, horses running straight through bayonet stabs, absurd load times, that I don't see why that was done.
 
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