Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord Old Discussion Thread

Users who are viewing this thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
Horrux said:
Things that I dislike about Warband that I think should be fixed for Bannerlord:

I don't necessarily think that all these things are flaws that need to be 'fixed', because some of them are design choices...

- Lack of deference of troops on the battlefield, meaning throwing me off the ladder, or blocking my way when fighting on horseback. Real soldiers would NOT do this to their king or queen. They would get out of the way.

Well, this would of course somehow make sense, although in the heat of battle that might have been hard to do, even for real men on the battlefield. I also think it would be hard to implement in the current engine but we'll see what they can do with a new/improved one.

- Seemingly random order of display of things, such as lords or fiefs.  There should be more information when listing things, and also the ability to rank them according to, for fiefs, wealth status, garrison status, faction, alphabetical, etc, and for lords, renown, relation, fiefs, alphabetical, original faction, etc.  This would be a tremendous help when distributing fiefs.  Right now I have to look at the fief status of all my lords, their renown, decide which ones get fiefs, and then give them in the right order according to renown...  All switching between screens through multiple mouse clicks and looking through lists that are in random order, trying to remember things when going from one to another...  It's a puzzle, especially when you have half a dozen or more fiefs to hand out.

- Scrolling menus.  We don't need things to be written in 36pt fonts, only to have to scroll through a list of 10 options on a menu.

I totally agree. The UI does lack in that aspect and is very hard to handle.

- When you lose a fight, you ALWAYS get captured, but when you win a fight, the enemy lords mostly get away.  Why?  How?  I think a sandbox should apply the same rules to everyone.  I mean, I understand about nameless soldiers dying and NPCs only getting injured, that's fine, but I mean the rest.

I agree that there should be a % chance of you getting away after a lost battle.

- Economic rules that aren't the same for NPCs as for the player. An NPC is able to maintain a 900-man army with no food problems, but all I can find to buy is bread or grain and morale breaks at 100 troops?  Some kind of magic? And an NPC is able to keep a seemingly infinite number of top-level troops in a fief without ever running out of money?  How?  And also, NPCs don't seem to suffer from tax inefficiency? Why? In short, I think the exact same rules in EVERYTHING should apply to the NPC characters as for the player, including levelling up, XP, renown, stats, E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G.  Maybe the difficulty slider would afford some adjusting the STRENGTH of the rules, but the NATURE of the rules would all be the exact same.

Now this is more a choice than a flaw. I personally prefer a balanced game to one that applies the exact same rules to the player and to the AI. The AI is already at a disadvantage because, well, it's just an AI. You have to help it somehow if the game is to provide a challenge.

- Giving troops should increase relation

Agreed OR you should be able to give troops to your vassals and bind them to do certain tasks with them.

- No battle preparation at all in siege defense, meaning you just spawn there and deal with it as best you can, you don't get to put archers here and there, infantry there, and so on...  AND you should be able to put half the archers here, and half the archers there, and so on­.

I personally think there will be SOME kind of battle preparation in the sequel. I'm interested in how it'll play out.

- Routed enemies slowly vanish, but new enemies just appear out of nowhere. When you find yourself in that area at that time, you are suddenly immobilized on your horse, and surrounded by a large enemy party, without any warning whatsoever. There should be either a rectangle on the ground showing where they will spawn, or perhaps they should spawn like the routed enemies leave, slowly fading. This would afford you time to get out of there before the enemies are spawned, just as you would see them coming, in real life.

My preference would be reinforcements that walk in from outside the playable field of battle like you see it in TW games. (Although that's pretty much all I would like them to implement from the TW series)
 
Horrux said:
Things that I dislike about Warband that I think should be fixed for Bannerlord:
- Lack of deference of troops on the battlefield, meaning throwing me off the ladder, or blocking my way when fighting on horseback. Real soldiers would NOT do this to their king or queen. They would get out of the way.

- Seemingly random order of display of things, such as lords or fiefs.  There should be more information when listing things, and also the ability to rank them according to, for fiefs, wealth status, garrison status, faction, alphabetical, etc, and for lords, renown, relation, fiefs, alphabetical, original faction, etc.  This would be a tremendous help when distributing fiefs.  Right now I have to look at the fief status of all my lords, their renown, decide which ones get fiefs, and then give them in the right order according to renown...  All switching between screens through multiple mouse clicks and looking through lists that are in random order, trying to remember things when going from one to another...  It's a puzzle, especially when you have half a dozen or more fiefs to hand out.

- Scrolling menus.  We don't need things to be written in 36pt fonts, only to have to scroll through a list of 10 options on a menu.

- When you lose a fight, you ALWAYS get captured, but when you win a fight, the enemy lords mostly get away.  Why?  How?  I think a sandbox should apply the same rules to everyone.  I mean, I understand about nameless soldiers dying and NPCs only getting injured, that's fine, but I mean the rest.

- Economic rules that aren't the same for NPCs as for the player. An NPC is able to maintain a 900-man army with no food problems, but all I can find to buy is bread or grain and morale breaks at 100 troops?  Some kind of magic? And an NPC is able to keep a seemingly infinite number of top-level troops in a fief without ever running out of money?  How?  And also, NPCs don't seem to suffer from tax inefficiency? Why? In short, I think the exact same rules in EVERYTHING should apply to the NPC characters as for the player, including levelling up, XP, renown, stats, E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G.  Maybe the difficulty slider would afford some adjusting the STRENGTH of the rules, but the NATURE of the rules would all be the exact same.

- Giving troops should increase relation

- No battle preparation at all in siege defense, meaning you just spawn there and deal with it as best you can, you don't get to put archers here and there, infantry there, and so on...  AND you should be able to put half the archers here, and half the archers there, and so on­.

- Routed enemies slowly vanish, but new enemies just appear out of nowhere. When you find yourself in that area at that time, you are suddenly immobilized on your horse, and surrounded by a large enemy party, without any warning whatsoever. There should be either a rectangle on the ground showing where they will spawn, or perhaps they should spawn like the routed enemies leave, slowly fading. This would afford you time to get out of there before the enemies are spawned, just as you would see them coming, in real life.

That's all I can think of ATM.  Note, that this is only about things that ARE already in the game, but whose application is lacking in my experience.  Obviously I'm not talking about additional features I'd like to have. Just things that should be fixed, not added. If that makes sense.

Please, let's all add to the list, make it easy for TaleWorlds to make a game without such flaws! Help them give us an even better experience! :grin:
I agree on all your points, especially the one regarding the consistency of the rules affecting the player and NPCs: indeed both players and NPCs should be subject to the same constraints, since they inhabit the same world. Warband was quite ludicrous in that regards, perhaps as a design choice since the AI was too primitive to handle those constraints in an proper (and challenging) manner; so they resorted to terrible cheats to overcome that terrible weakness. Thus an improved AI is of the order if we are to see consistent rules for both the player and the NPCs.
 
I agree with the points above I don't know if its just me but I'm not a king yet but have 1900 renown and have many bordering castles all over the continent if you would call it that. Regarding this when successfully capturing a castle your men you place should possibly be given stats on leadership, bravery, strength etc. you could then appoint as castle leader who could become key men in your eventual push for the kingdom. As well as this the men that you put in the castle should be able to raid like other AI units therefore increasing there level perhaps and the strength of the castle/city.

Also I'm level 33 and can only have 167 men so I think it would be good if you could take men from your castles and amass them outside city's so you could be more successful with capturing. Taken into consideration could be the appointed castle leaders stats for a group of the men, for example high bravery may mean the number of men from that castle may come quicker then a leader with lower bravery, possibly a leader with higher economics could bring more food, you get the picture.
 
For_All said:
Horrux said:
Things that I dislike about Warband that I think should be fixed for Bannerlord:

I don't necessarily think that all these things are flaws that need to be 'fixed', because some of them are design choices...
- Lack of deference of troops on the battlefield, meaning throwing me off the ladder, or blocking my way when fighting on horseback. Real soldiers would NOT do this to their king or queen. They would get out of the way.

Well, this would of course somehow make sense, although in the heat of battle that might have been hard to do, even for real men on the battlefield. I also think it would be hard to implement in the current engine but we'll see what they can do with a new/improved one.

- Seemingly random order of display of things, such as lords or fiefs.  There should be more information when listing things, and also the ability to rank them according to, for fiefs, wealth status, garrison status, faction, alphabetical, etc, and for lords, renown, relation, fiefs, alphabetical, original faction, etc.  This would be a tremendous help when distributing fiefs.  Right now I have to look at the fief status of all my lords, their renown, decide which ones get fiefs, and then give them in the right order according to renown...  All switching between screens through multiple mouse clicks and looking through lists that are in random order, trying to remember things when going from one to another...  It's a puzzle, especially when you have half a dozen or more fiefs to hand out.

- Scrolling menus.  We don't need things to be written in 36pt fonts, only to have to scroll through a list of 10 options on a menu.

I totally agree. The UI does lack in that aspect and is very hard to handle.

- When you lose a fight, you ALWAYS get captured, but when you win a fight, the enemy lords mostly get away.  Why?  How?  I think a sandbox should apply the same rules to everyone.  I mean, I understand about nameless soldiers dying and NPCs only getting injured, that's fine, but I mean the rest.

I agree that there should be a % chance of you getting away after a lost battle.

- Economic rules that aren't the same for NPCs as for the player. An NPC is able to maintain a 900-man army with no food problems, but all I can find to buy is bread or grain and morale breaks at 100 troops?  Some kind of magic? And an NPC is able to keep a seemingly infinite number of top-level troops in a fief without ever running out of money?  How?  And also, NPCs don't seem to suffer from tax inefficiency? Why? In short, I think the exact same rules in EVERYTHING should apply to the NPC characters as for the player, including levelling up, XP, renown, stats, E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G.  Maybe the difficulty slider would afford some adjusting the STRENGTH of the rules, but the NATURE of the rules would all be the exact same.

Now this is more a choice than a flaw. I personally prefer a balanced game to one that applies the exact same rules to the player and to the AI. The AI is already at a disadvantage because, well, it's just an AI. You have to help it somehow if the game is to provide a challenge.

- Giving troops should increase relation

Agreed OR you should be able to give troops to your vassals and bind them to do certain tasks with them.

- No battle preparation at all in siege defense, meaning you just spawn there and deal with it as best you can, you don't get to put archers here and there, infantry there, and so on...  AND you should be able to put half the archers here, and half the archers there, and so on­.

I personally think there will be SOME kind of battle preparation in the sequel. I'm interested in how it'll play out.

- Routed enemies slowly vanish, but new enemies just appear out of nowhere. When you find yourself in that area at that time, you are suddenly immobilized on your horse, and surrounded by a large enemy party, without any warning whatsoever. There should be either a rectangle on the ground showing where they will spawn, or perhaps they should spawn like the routed enemies leave, slowly fading. This would afford you time to get out of there before the enemies are spawned, just as you would see them coming, in real life.

My preference would be reinforcements that walk in from outside the playable field of battle like you see it in TW games. (Although that's pretty much all I would like them to implement from the TW series)

Well, if the AI is too stupid to work OK on an actual even footing, then the difficulty slider should account for that.  For example, if your maximum tax inefficiency is (70? I think?), perhaps the AI would have a range of max tax inefficiency of 90% on the easiest level, all the way to 0% on the hardest level.  That way, money management inadequacies due to coding limitations could be compensated for, while keeping the SAME rule, just a different strength to it.  Same thing with party size: player gets 5 per point in leadership, and 1 per point in charisma, this could be adjusted by the difficulty slider from 5&1 all the way to 25&5 for example. Again, same rule, just different parameters. Same with troop cost, leadership reduces by 5% for the player, make this 20% (up to 90% max?) all the way to 1% per point, depending on where you put the slider. And so on.

So while I agree that these are design choices, they are relatively lazy design choices. I'm not criticizing TW for doing it this way, as this was their first big game, but Bannerlord is being made with a LOT more resources, so any shortcuts taken in coding Warband need to be addressed.

Marmz said:
Horrux said:
Things that I dislike about Warband that I think should be fixed for Bannerlord:
- Lack of deference of troops on the battlefield, meaning throwing me off the ladder, or blocking my way when fighting on horseback. Real soldiers would NOT do this to their king or queen. They would get out of the way.

- Seemingly random order of display of things, such as lords or fiefs.  There should be more information when listing things, and also the ability to rank them according to, for fiefs, wealth status, garrison status, faction, alphabetical, etc, and for lords, renown, relation, fiefs, alphabetical, original faction, etc.  This would be a tremendous help when distributing fiefs.  Right now I have to look at the fief status of all my lords, their renown, decide which ones get fiefs, and then give them in the right order according to renown...  All switching between screens through multiple mouse clicks and looking through lists that are in random order, trying to remember things when going from one to another...  It's a puzzle, especially when you have half a dozen or more fiefs to hand out.

- Scrolling menus.  We don't need things to be written in 36pt fonts, only to have to scroll through a list of 10 options on a menu.

- When you lose a fight, you ALWAYS get captured, but when you win a fight, the enemy lords mostly get away.  Why?  How?  I think a sandbox should apply the same rules to everyone.  I mean, I understand about nameless soldiers dying and NPCs only getting injured, that's fine, but I mean the rest.

- Economic rules that aren't the same for NPCs as for the player. An NPC is able to maintain a 900-man army with no food problems, but all I can find to buy is bread or grain and morale breaks at 100 troops?  Some kind of magic? And an NPC is able to keep a seemingly infinite number of top-level troops in a fief without ever running out of money?  How?  And also, NPCs don't seem to suffer from tax inefficiency? Why? In short, I think the exact same rules in EVERYTHING should apply to the NPC characters as for the player, including levelling up, XP, renown, stats, E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G.  Maybe the difficulty slider would afford some adjusting the STRENGTH of the rules, but the NATURE of the rules would all be the exact same.

- Giving troops should increase relation

- No battle preparation at all in siege defense, meaning you just spawn there and deal with it as best you can, you don't get to put archers here and there, infantry there, and so on...  AND you should be able to put half the archers here, and half the archers there, and so on­.

- Routed enemies slowly vanish, but new enemies just appear out of nowhere. When you find yourself in that area at that time, you are suddenly immobilized on your horse, and surrounded by a large enemy party, without any warning whatsoever. There should be either a rectangle on the ground showing where they will spawn, or perhaps they should spawn like the routed enemies leave, slowly fading. This would afford you time to get out of there before the enemies are spawned, just as you would see them coming, in real life.

That's all I can think of ATM.  Note, that this is only about things that ARE already in the game, but whose application is lacking in my experience.  Obviously I'm not talking about additional features I'd like to have. Just things that should be fixed, not added. If that makes sense.

Please, let's all add to the list, make it easy for TaleWorlds to make a game without such flaws! Help them give us an even better experience! :grin:
I agree on all your points, especially the one regarding the consistency of the rules affecting the player and NPCs: indeed both players and NPCs should be subject to the same constraints, since they inhabit the same world. Warband was quite ludicrous in that regards, perhaps as a design choice since the AI was too primitive to handle those constraints in an proper (and challenging) manner; so they resorted to terrible cheats to overcome that terrible weakness. Thus an improved AI is of the order if we are to see consistent rules for both the player and the NPCs.
Thanks!  I'm glad to have you on my side! +10 relation  :razz:

Mr stuff said:
I agree with the points above I don't know if its just me but I'm not a king yet but have 1900 renown and have many bordering castles all over the continent if you would call it that. Regarding this when successfully capturing a castle your men you place should possibly be given stats on leadership, bravery, strength etc. you could then appoint as castle leader who could become key men in your eventual push for the kingdom. As well as this the men that you put in the castle should be able to raid like other AI units therefore increasing there level perhaps and the strength of the castle/city.

Also I'm level 33 and can only have 167 men so I think it would be good if you could take men from your castles and amass them outside city's so you could be more successful with capturing. Taken into consideration could be the appointed castle leaders stats for a group of the men, for example high bravery may mean the number of men from that castle may come quicker then a leader with lower bravery, possibly a leader with higher economics could bring more food, you get the picture.
This is of the domain of new features, rather than something which is already in the game, but with a lacking implementation. But yeah, I agree.
 
I agree with Horrux's suggestion/fixes.  They are minor problems in warband that could be easily be reworked slightly for a better experience for the player.  The only thing in question is the whole "Equal with NPC" argument, the AI should be much more intelligent if you want that or else this game would be a breeze.
 
RockerJesse said:
I agree with Horrux's suggestion/fixes.  They are minor problems in warband that could be easily be reworked slightly for a better experience for the player.  The only thing in question is the whole "Equal with NPC" argument, the AI should be much more intelligent if you want that or else this game would be a breeze.

Then they could add a difficulty setting that gives more advanteges to NPC
 
Kazzan said:
Yabloko said:
Then they could add a difficulty setting that gives more advanteges to NPC

More equality, less artificial difficulty.

Exactly, such as, without making the AI smarter than the player (good luck!), easier recruitment or leveling of troops, etc.  It could all be adjusted via the difficulty slider.
 
:twisted:
bat_2_by_yiit-d5urwza.png

Stupid unofficial doodle which you guys dont want. :???:
 
Amontadillo said:
Nope. There's a similar style of sword in LotR, but it's not quite the same.

Also, if Y117 posts any more, I'll make a game of finding his signature on each one.

+1
 
YII7 said:
:twisted:
bat_2_by_yiit-d5urwza.png

Stupid unofficial doodle which you guys dont want. :???:
Very nice art, but if there will be swords like this, I can assume we won't have realistic armour system since plate armour is virtually invincible to that kind of sword, unless it's used as a club. Or that there won't be any plate armour at all.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom