[research] republican Rome

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Yeah, sources on their equipment are really sparse. I'd say both the Xiphos and the Kopis are fine as they (the Romans) were heavily influenced by the Hellenistic world. Although I was under the impression that the Gladius Hispaniensis was used as well.

Danik Golovanov said:
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Only the second and fourth images are reliable, the first is much later than the period we're concerned with (he looks like he's probably a Praetorian cavalryman) and the third is a Samnite horsemen. While the Roman's may have employed them as allies, the equites themselves consisted exclusively of upper class Roman citizens.

I need to order some more issues of Ancient Warfares... I used to be on subscription, but they're  @#!*%  pricey, especially when they have to ship them to Canada from the Netherlands. :neutral:
 
Yeah, I'm not certain either. He could be Campanian or something else...
Must agree however, that helmet is rather spiffing! :grin:
 
The Gladius Hispaniensis is based on the Xiphos. They even have similar blades.

ive researched a bit
couldnt find anything that proves this theory

the gladius hispaniensis is based on the celt latene sword, which has actually nothing to do with the kopis or xiphos
the thing about the falcata isnt proved yet, its origin is either in the etruscan region or in the greek
btw the falcata isnt the same as the kopis

could u send me a link where uve read it
=)

thx
 
Just examine the shape of a xiphos blade and a gladius hispaniensis. They both have leaf shaped blades for cutting and thrusting and the gladius comes later in use after the xiphos. The gladius h is probably an amalgam of greek and iberian swords. Yea, I know, the team discussed the differences so we won't make an army of falcata spamming macedonians.
 
Ermm, the g.h was made by the Romans who was so influenced by hellenic culture that they once were a hoplite culture. The greeks made the xiphos and kopis. Also, based on the timeframe, it looks like the g.h will be fairly new, so we will be making greek, iberian and italian patterned swords that the majority of players will use.
 
sry to interrupt u dude
but the g.h wasnt made by the romans, as i said b4--> taken from the celtiberians-->origin in celtic culture: latene sword
 
Yes it was made by Romans. Gladius Hispaniensis is even in Latin. That does not mean the Romans didn't base it on (Celt)Iberian weaponry, in fact, the name rather implies that. "Sword in the Spanish style" is what "Gladius Hispaniensis" roughly means. And yes, it is quite likely that the weapons the Romans based their sword on had been based, in turn, on swords similar to swords found at La Tene. It's a process, dude.

The sword found at La Tene was indeed probably made by Celts or even proto-Celts in that region in Switzerland. The design they used for that sword then formed the base for swords all over the Celtic world and eventually Romans adapted it as well, via Celtiberians, making their own, new, sword based on an intermarriage between the Celtiberic and Roman sword-making ideas. So YES, it was made by Romans, but NO, it wasn't a completely Roman-only idea.
 
seems that we have different points of view
=)

gh. means sword of the hispanics ( actually it should be gladius hispan(i)orum)
they simply modified it, thats all
=)
 
Pretty much, and Roman swordmaking is bound to be hellenistic in some respects. I think some research needs to be done for g.h hilts because there are a wide variety of hilt styles. My book had a drawing with a celtic styled hilt.
 
Just popping out of no where to dump some of my (might I say) rich Roman knowledge.

#1 - Just because something is named in the latin language, that doesn't mean it is latin or Roman in make or origin.

#2 - The Gladius Hispaniensis was certainly manufactored in and around Rome. What exactly lead the Romans to developing this weapon? It wasn't something that was suddenly created or invented one day. Like all things ancient, it was a slow development from past and present technologies. 1st of all, the Romans did have heavy Greek/ Greco-Etruscan influences since they developed into a city. So why wasn't this weapon developed by the Romans during this time, if it was based on Greek weapons? The Romans heavy Greek influence was rapidly being replaced by heavy Celtic influence into the 4th and 3rd C BCE. These Celts used swords between 60 and 80 cm's, which is awfully close to the size of the Gladius Hispaniensis, don't you think? They even shared an extremely similar blade shape and hilt structure, much closer to anything Greek (Xiphos was the closest, but that blade had a much narrower blade, not close to the Gladius Hispaniensis). The Celts where renowned smiths, and revolutionised many smithing techniques, so it would make sense that the Romans would copy from them, right? We also have the Iberians, which had a very minor influence or placement into the Roman military before the mid 3rd C BCE. There weapons where the closest to what the Gladius Hispaniensis developed into how we commonly see it, and Iberian warriors fought in tighter formations than the Celts, so they needed cut-and-thrust swords that where easier to handle in these formations. So when and why was this weapon developed? Scipio Africanus was said to have re-drilled and trained his army along new lines, incorporating stricter discipline and advanced maneuver tactics, which where based on that of his enemy and his own knowledge. To me, this sounds like a time that Rome would begin fighting in tighter formations, where the cut and thrust sword was a necessity. So the Romans would have began relying on these Iberian swords a great deal more, but perhaps the demand was too high, or blacksmiths back in Rome found this as a good opportunity to mass produce weapons for the army and make some money. Hence the creation of the Gladius Hispaniensis, a Roman sword said to have been strongly influenced from Iberia.

That's my view :smile:

I just want people to know that there is never a right answer when it comes to topics like this, but there is always a more plausible one :wink: Just because you read something in a book, that doesn't make it right. What you have read is obviously someone's opinion, and should be treated as such.

EDIT: By the way, I have done a great deal of research into the early Republican Roman Army (between the periods of the 2nd Samnite War and prior to the 2nd Punic War), and I must admit that I am a mega wizz on the subject, and am now one of those educated speculators :grin: Not sure if it's too late now, but I wish to offer help where ever I can.
 
Knock yourself out, it was an interesting reading. The team discussed whether or not the gladius hispaniensis had his place in the mod, the final decision was to keep it but having the earlier versions of it. If you have informations about any subject that fits the period we set, you have my attention.
 
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