Grenadiers are already veterans. 
They are even better than regular veterans, because they are the elite of the infantry.
They are even better than regular veterans, because they are the elite of the infantry.
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RodriguesSting
Sergeant
Just suggested that to armies that dont have this yet, you know? Like the Bavarian Dragons (i think).
As long as Quintillius brings back the Saxon Hussars, I'm fine with everything.
But well, factions shouldn't get overpowered I think.
But well, factions shouldn't get overpowered I think.
RodriguesSting
Sergeant
Isn't exactly overpowered, i believe, but... you have your point. Just think that the factions that have little variety should have this benefit, but... i think i see your point. Well, in doubt, leave exactly as you found.
I will study the units of another factions latter to make, in the lack of appropriate words, a better suggestion later.
I will study the units of another factions latter to make, in the lack of appropriate words, a better suggestion later.
RodriguesSting
Sergeant
Okay, I had some time to think about it and I am ready to make a more elaborate suggestion.
The most significant and powerfull factions of the game have, at least, 2 branches of infantry, and all of them ends on some kind of elite unit. The British have the Rifleman branch, that ends on the Chosen Man, and also the Grenadier, that ends on Royal Mariner. Even if that units don't have "Veteran" on their names, the fact that they have a unique name already imply that they already are veterans. Even more than veterans, probably. I believe the same can be said about all grenadiers out there, Finish Marksman (not sure, however) and Norwegian Skier (kudos for them if every rifleman on that country can shoot while skying). Other armies, even don't having an named elite, have their infantry ending on Veteran stats. I could quote the Prussian army from v1, having their veteran Line Infantry, their veteran Shooters (don't remember their name in-game) and even a third, separated branch, the jägers and their veteran version.
However, some armies, if I remember well, have only one branch of infantry. I could quote the Bavarian army (the one i know mostly), having only one branch of infantry. I remember the Spanish army having only one, too. The same to the Italian and Papal armies. The Bavarian army, at the very least, have an intermediary unit (the Light Infantry) that could have the potential to be another branch ending on a Veteran Light Infantry. They even have their own uniform. But they just turn into Veteran Regulars, return to the same unifor of the Bavarian Recruits. I can't say yet if other factions with only one branch have intermediary units, sadly.
So, my suggestion would be that every army of the game, even of the smallest faction (maybe except for Serbia, if they don't have an organized army), would have at least 2 infantry branches ending on Veteran or maybe named elites. I don't believe that most armies of that time had infantry only on the line, and resorted all the other uses to mercenaries. If inspiration is needed or it's hard to search about this matter, we could always resort to classical games that retract the era of Napoleon, showing us the armies in their total potential of the time, ready for war.
About the cavalry, i can't say the same. At that time, there weren't a "basic cavalry". Dragons, Hussars, Cuirassiers, Uhlans are elites by they own on most armies. So, i will stay away from this topic.
It's better explained now, guys?
The most significant and powerfull factions of the game have, at least, 2 branches of infantry, and all of them ends on some kind of elite unit. The British have the Rifleman branch, that ends on the Chosen Man, and also the Grenadier, that ends on Royal Mariner. Even if that units don't have "Veteran" on their names, the fact that they have a unique name already imply that they already are veterans. Even more than veterans, probably. I believe the same can be said about all grenadiers out there, Finish Marksman (not sure, however) and Norwegian Skier (kudos for them if every rifleman on that country can shoot while skying). Other armies, even don't having an named elite, have their infantry ending on Veteran stats. I could quote the Prussian army from v1, having their veteran Line Infantry, their veteran Shooters (don't remember their name in-game) and even a third, separated branch, the jägers and their veteran version.
However, some armies, if I remember well, have only one branch of infantry. I could quote the Bavarian army (the one i know mostly), having only one branch of infantry. I remember the Spanish army having only one, too. The same to the Italian and Papal armies. The Bavarian army, at the very least, have an intermediary unit (the Light Infantry) that could have the potential to be another branch ending on a Veteran Light Infantry. They even have their own uniform. But they just turn into Veteran Regulars, return to the same unifor of the Bavarian Recruits. I can't say yet if other factions with only one branch have intermediary units, sadly.
So, my suggestion would be that every army of the game, even of the smallest faction (maybe except for Serbia, if they don't have an organized army), would have at least 2 infantry branches ending on Veteran or maybe named elites. I don't believe that most armies of that time had infantry only on the line, and resorted all the other uses to mercenaries. If inspiration is needed or it's hard to search about this matter, we could always resort to classical games that retract the era of Napoleon, showing us the armies in their total potential of the time, ready for war.
About the cavalry, i can't say the same. At that time, there weren't a "basic cavalry". Dragons, Hussars, Cuirassiers, Uhlans are elites by they own on most armies. So, i will stay away from this topic.
It's better explained now, guys?
Grenadiers instead of veteran line infantry, and Schuetzen instead of shooters. Elites indeed.RodriguesSting said:
Nassau definitely had. The Papal states too.RodriguesSting said:
Saxony was outdated, but they still had schuetzen like the Prussians I believe. But still a much smaller portion of the army compared to the Prussians AFAIK.
Hesse-Kassen... I don't know much about them, actually. They had light troops I believe, with an unique headwear and green uniforms (of which I only know the Revolutionary wars-pattern, not the 1805 ones). It should look a lot like the Prussians too, but they should have a lot less light troops there too.
Wuerttemberg could use some Jaegers as élite troops, I believe.
Bavaria... well, there seems not too much difference between their light and line infantry of the time, only their uniforms and the light infantry's more specialised training. Apparently.
I think, the armies of those smaller states are a bit too small to give them all elite specialised troops, like light infantry branches on their troop-trees. Troop-trees like Spain's, or Saxony's, are rather straightforward, ending on Grenadiers only (I believe). But their armies were rather outdated at the time, and straightforward too; they lacked the light troops of the other, more modern powers. That's why Russia has a simple troop-tree too; Their infantry was that simple and old-fashioned.
Other factios, like Nassau, were just too small to have a large portion of specialised/light troops in their army. Or they were just rebels, like the Montenegrins and Serbs.
Except, of course, the bigger German states, who had been modernising a lot these times. Wuerttemberg, as I said, could use some elite Jaegers; they had very good light troops already then. I suggest having 2 possible upgrades from Regular: Veteran Regular and Jaeger (just like the Swiss merc troop-tree).
Bavaria could have the same system (so Light Infantry instead of Jaeger here), but I'm not sure what the difference between line and light should be here. The equipment was actually the same, only their training and tactics used to be different. Maybe a bit higher profiency in "firearms", and the same profiency in "polearms" as regulars?
Hesse-Kassel is a case apart. The only thing I know about their light infatnry is this: http://www.grosser-generalstab.de/tafeln/knoe18/knoe18_16.html
These kick-ass uniforms, apart from the sexy and unique headwear, are very Prussian in style. And indeed, the Hessian army of 1805 had uniforms almost identical to the Prussians of then. So, they should look the same as the Prussian Jaegers. Or Schuetzen. Those Jaegers on the right at least seem totally Prussian-style uniformed IMO.
RodriguesSting
Sergeant
I must say that the fourth soldier, resting on that rock is on a... as i can say without sounding too offensive, since i don't want Quintillius rage upon me... he seems to be on a homoerotic alluring position. (I AM NOT HOMOPHOBIC! Was just a observation about the gentleman on the rock)
However, indeed, the uniforms are badass. Would like to see those guys in game as soon as possible.
About the Bavarian Light Infantry (elite), those guys would fight with musket and bayonet. Their, as I can say, magic, would be that they move faster on the battlefield to flanking enemy troops and gaining positions. Just like the french skirmishers.
Anyway, i see your point now. If this suggestion is to be applied, will need a lot of work and research.
I did read that, because of they having the same equipment (and, indeed, the same heavy and huge helmets), the Bavarian Light Infantry weren't much lighter (or: faster) than the line infantry. They just had more training, and, I believe, were better shooters.
So, they should be about the same in melee as the normal Regulars (so inferior to the veteran Regulars), and superior only in shooting (a bit like the French Voltigers I believe). They should just have the same gun as the line infantry also.
You know, Bavaria wasn't an above-average army regarding light troops (or specialised troops anyway). The Wuerttembergers were the real Light infantry (and cavalry) specialists in Germany there, and their Koenig Jaegers (both the mounted and foot regiments) kicked ass everywhere. Bavaria had good troops, but they didn't really excell like the Wuerttembergers in ligh infantry stuff, Russian Grenadiers in melee, that kind of specialised badassyness. They were a modern army with very good officers; their strongest point, I did read, was the leadership in their army.
And don't worry about research.
So, they should be about the same in melee as the normal Regulars (so inferior to the veteran Regulars), and superior only in shooting (a bit like the French Voltigers I believe). They should just have the same gun as the line infantry also.
You know, Bavaria wasn't an above-average army regarding light troops (or specialised troops anyway). The Wuerttembergers were the real Light infantry (and cavalry) specialists in Germany there, and their Koenig Jaegers (both the mounted and foot regiments) kicked ass everywhere. Bavaria had good troops, but they didn't really excell like the Wuerttembergers in ligh infantry stuff, Russian Grenadiers in melee, that kind of specialised badassyness. They were a modern army with very good officers; their strongest point, I did read, was the leadership in their army.
And don't worry about research.
lolwut?RodriguesSting said:
Cool story, but nobody is interested in your thoughts.
RodriguesSting
Sergeant
Ahn... indeed. Was just a joke, trying to be friendly. A lame joke, by the way. Will not happen again, and sorry for being offencive in any way.
Anyway, doing fine in Bavaria, even if it's hard to climb on social ladder. Just think that muskets manufactured on blacksmith should come with a "broken" (but Tempered) version for using on melee. That's all for now.
Anyway, doing fine in Bavaria, even if it's hard to climb on social ladder. Just think that muskets manufactured on blacksmith should come with a "broken" (but Tempered) version for using on melee. That's all for now.
RodriguesSting
Sergeant
Good night, gentlemen. Analysing Captured Joe's statement that (if i understood correctly), Nassau and the Papal States relied on mercenaries to increase the variety of their armies, i would like to suggest for them (and other small factions that relied heavily on mercenaries) be able to recruit those mercenaries in battalions trough Warrant Officer. Since I don't believe that, to form a Swiss Jäger regiment, a commander had to go on the tavern of every city of his faction, being able to recruit them from the Officer on numbers of 10 and 25 (if I remember right, but i probably don't, since my memory is only failing me lately) would be way more practical, even if their salaries would be higher (since they would not be working on contracts) or recruitment more expensive (for whatever logical reason you may find, as summoning them from the common population would have a higher cost than simply training regulars).
See, only the factions that relied heavily on mercenaries would have that benefit, and only with the mercenaries that they historically relied upon. For fictional example, let us say that the Papal States had regiments of Swiss Jagërs as their light infantry and Hessian Hussars for cavalry. A commander could recruit those from the Warrant Officer (at a higher price, of course, but way easier and faster), but wouldn't be able to recruit Swiss and Irish regulars, or Uhlans.
Since some armies, apparently, had only one branch of units, that seems to be a viable way to increasing variety and tactical value without too much work.
ADDENDUM: They could, however, recruit another mercenary units trough the conventional way (which is trough taverns).
See, only the factions that relied heavily on mercenaries would have that benefit, and only with the mercenaries that they historically relied upon. For fictional example, let us say that the Papal States had regiments of Swiss Jagërs as their light infantry and Hessian Hussars for cavalry. A commander could recruit those from the Warrant Officer (at a higher price, of course, but way easier and faster), but wouldn't be able to recruit Swiss and Irish regulars, or Uhlans.
Since some armies, apparently, had only one branch of units, that seems to be a viable way to increasing variety and tactical value without too much work.
ADDENDUM: They could, however, recruit another mercenary units trough the conventional way (which is trough taverns).
Wait, the Mercenaries of Nassau, the 'Foreign Dutch Grenadiers', are already in the Troop-tree.
But it would be a good idea, I think, to give the Revolutionary states access to mercenaries. Especially the Spanish (who should get Swiss), French (also Swiss), Irish (Irish mercs of course), and Warsaw (Polish Lancers) revolutionary states.
Russia and Venice are well off with normal Russian and Austrian troops, I think.
But it would be a good idea, I think, to give the Revolutionary states access to mercenaries. Especially the Spanish (who should get Swiss), French (also Swiss), Irish (Irish mercs of course), and Warsaw (Polish Lancers) revolutionary states.
Russia and Venice are well off with normal Russian and Austrian troops, I think.
RodriguesSting
Sergeant
Thought that the Foreign Dutch Grenadiers were some kind of evolution of their standard line infantry, only with a "fancy" name. Gotta check them out later. Thanks for the feedback. Now, a question... whose are the best Grenadiers of the game? Just asking for a opinnion, nothing more.
hadza
Banned
Hey, guys
This is my last replay
just ask what is best musket to buy, with high speed, accuracy,demage because rifles are at slow reloading..?
and is possible to buy 2 or 3 battalion from officer wacker on buleward because I can just buy 1 battalion, or is possible and how to I get regiment not just battalion?
SORRY IF THIS ISN'T THE PLACE TO I ASK THIS QUESTION(S)
Thanks for your help
This is my last replay
just ask what is best musket to buy, with high speed, accuracy,demage because rifles are at slow reloading..?
and is possible to buy 2 or 3 battalion from officer wacker on buleward because I can just buy 1 battalion, or is possible and how to I get regiment not just battalion?
SORRY IF THIS ISN'T THE PLACE TO I ASK THIS QUESTION(S)
Thanks for your help
The French Charleville is the best overall musket, IMO. Napoleonic people called it the 'best musket in the world'.hadza said:
The British Brown Bess is faster with reloading, but has shorter range and less accuracy.
The Austrian musket is my favorite, because it has the best accuracy of all muskets, and its range isn't much less than the Charleville. It's a liiitle bit slower, though.
You can also buy 3 battalions at once. But you need enough space for them + the special guys (standard bearers and drummers), and enough money.
But you can also hire one battalion, then another one, and then another one.
It's the Trenck Panduren-Marsch, of the Austro-Hungarian light cavalry.
From the WB: Napoleonic Wars screenshot thread:
Gooby said:Hey,
just throwing some pics from this years Battle of Austerlitz reenactment in Czech Republic. Enjoy.
Amman d Stazia
Master Knight
nice photos
What unit is represented by the mid-brown tunic and floppy hat (pinned up to one side)? Austrian Jaegers?
What unit is represented by the mid-brown tunic and floppy hat (pinned up to one side)? Austrian Jaegers?
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