NW Completed NW International Linebattle Championships "ILC" [Canceld]

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Furrnox

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International Linebattle Championships

The 3te is hosting International Linebattle Championships (ILC).

Any regiments are allowed to join (European and American).

The Championship will be played like The Champions League (Soccer/Football). Meaning we will have a Qualifying stage (canceld), a group stage and a knockout stage.
The tournament will be played like a regular 1v1 regiment linebattle.
The championship will be played during 5 weeks  (Group stage 4 weeks and Knockout stage will be played during 1 weekend).
The europeans and the americans will be playing in seperate group stages (If enough teams).
Americans and europeans will meet up in the knockout stage.

Matches Info!
Matches during the group stage will be played weekly.
The regiments will decide dates and times with the regiment there facing (Must be played with in the week) .
If the regiments can't come to an agrement a referee must step in and help out.
You and the regiment you face must also agree on how many people you may bring to battle.
All matches will be played best out of 10 rounds each round is 15min.
Matches will be played best out of 10 so there is a chance for a draw if both matches in the knockout stage are draws then a finale round will be played to determine who advances to the next round.
The gamemode will be battle of course.

Group Stage: 2 matches [1 home 1 away] versus everyone in the group.
a win = 2 points
draw = 1 point
loss = 0 points

Rules!
1. Basic linebattle rules.
- No shooting out of formation. Not even when charging.
- No officer aiming (Your allowed to shoot the officer if the other regiment is charging you).
- No ramboing.
- You must reform after every volley taken.
- No kneeling (if your not in a double line or square formation).
- No sappers.
- If there's only 3 or less people alive in a line you must charge in.
2. Only lineinfantry is allowed.
3. No buffs will be used (Might be implemented if enough requests).
4. A minimum of 10 people attending to all matches.
5. A regiment may not outnumber the regiment it faces during a match.
6. A referee must atend to all matches so no cheating can occur.
7. Map change every 3 rounds last map change being 4 rounds if the match lasts for 10 rounds.
7.5. The map must be approved by the referee.
8. Allowed formations in the tournament.
- Single line.
- Double line.
- Square formation.
- You may also use 2 lines if you have above 40players on your team.
9. Respect other participants.
10. You may only spectate your own teamembers (This has to be set by the server admin).
11. Everyone that attends must wear there regiments tags or they will get kicked from the server.

[Still incomplete]

If you brake any of these rules it might get you and your regiment disqualified.

The current referees: Furrnox, Mr_Eazysteel, Redbush and Malakith (More referees will be appointed later).

Follow this Form to join!
Regiment name:
Tag:
Contact person:
Server:
Region:

Form Explanation!
Regiment name - Simply put the name of the regiment.
Tag - Put your regiments tag that you use in game.
Contact person - Put who ever we can contact if needed (Steam name prefered).
Server - Simply put yes if your regiment have there own server if not put no.
Region - Put what region your regiment is based on Europe or America.

The signups will end at 30th of June.

Finally if you have any questions or suggestions about the tournament please contact me or Mr_Eazysteel on steam or get on our regiments teamspeak ip: eurots6.gameservers.com:9134

Sorry for my terrible english at occasions. But i hope it wont stop you guys fom signing up!

Hope to see you on the Battlefield!
/Furrnox

P.S If anyone wants to make us some fancy pictures that would be much appriciated.
P.S.S.: Most matches will be recorded/commentated.

Attending Regiments
3. Kurmarkische Landwehr-Regiment
Tag: 3te_KLR
Contact Person: Furrnox or Mr_Eazysteel
Server: Yes
Region: Mainly European

10th Prussian Infantry
Tag: UFC_10te
Contact person: Fireheart
Server: yes
Region: NA/EU

77y Pehotniy Polk
Tag: 77y
Contact person: Aztir Malakith
Server: Yus
Region: Eu

7thUnvanquished
Tag: UFC_7th_UV
Contact person:[CFBC]Kia936
Server:yes
Region:Mainly NA

3. Jydske Infanteriregiment
Tag: DDA_3JI
Contact person: Oberstløjtnant Skriver
Server: Yes
Region: EU (Denmark)

41st Siberian Regriment
Tag: 41stSBR
Contact person: vinr853 
Server: Yes
Region: Moscow, Russia.

18tes Königlich Preussisches Regiment
Tag: [DL]18tes-
Contact person: Steam: terrabyte5 ( [DL]18tes-Oberst-Bluecher)
Server: Yes
Region: EU (Germany)

His Majesty's Royal Scots Regiment
Tag: Royal_Scots
Contact person: nickname: BlitzKrieg-BoB steam: kjeld1990
Server: Yes
Region: Eu (some NA members though)

88te Royal Vidya Guardsmen on Foot
Tag:88te
Contact person: Steam -  Crimsonwave
Server: yes
Region: Europe (some NA)

48e regiment de ligne
Tag: IIIe_48e_*rank*_*Name*
Contact person: here
Server: IIIe_Offical_server
Region: Europe/ North American

50th Queens Own Regiment of Foot
Tag: 50th_Line/Arty_rank_name
Contact person:Hi_Im_Stefan
Server:not yet
Region: Mainly EU

2e Régiment de Grenadiers de la Garde
Tag - IVe_2e
Contact person - IVe_2e_SLt_Stéphane (steam : stefdu93150)
Server - yes (at least 3 servers)
Region - EU

23rd Army Corps
Tag: 23rdAC
Contact person: streetsurfer. (steam) tjthepro  after you search that add streetsurfer
Server: yes
Region: NA

Brackets!
Group A
Royal_Scots
DDA_3JI
7th_UV
23rdAC
Group B
18tes
10te
2e
Group C
3te_KLR
41stSBR
88te
Group D
50th
48e
77y

Matches!
Matches start this sunday (08/07)
You must have battled your opponent by Next sunday (15/07)


Matches for the week of 08/07 - 15/07
Group A
Royal Scots vs DDA_3JI
7th_UV vs 23rdAC
Group B
18tes vs 10te
Group C
3te_KLR vs 41stSBR
Group D
50th vs 48e
 
Quite a lot of regiments, probably mostly European ones, play rules that allow firing 1 shot during the  charge, so as to not favour camping lines too much. Any thoughts about having that rule?

Another thing is the problem of Officers getting shot. Is a regiment going to be penalised no matter what the circumstances of an Officer being shot are? Imagine if it's a random shot from an extremely long distance that happens to hit an Officer (bound to happen at least once in this tournament), does that constitute as a rule-break? Also, couldn't regiments exploit this rule, e.g. running their column directly towards an enemy line thereby making it impossible to avoid shooting the officer?
 
Evanovic said:
Quite a lot of regiments, probably mostly European ones, play rules that allow firing 1 shot during the charge, so as to not favour camping lines too much. Any thoughts about having that rule?
And shooting out of formation promotes chargebattles.
 
HarbingerOfDoom said:
Evanovic said:
Quite a lot of regiments, probably mostly European ones, play rules that allow firing 1 shot during the charge, so as to not favour camping lines too much. Any thoughts about having that rule?
And no shooting out of formation promotes chargebattles.

Charging already often allows your opponents to get more shots off at your line before you engage in melee, therefore meaning you engage with less numbers. I would say that allowing firing in the charge merely makes decent melee possible in linebattles, as it reduces the relative losses for the charging team slightly than it would be without.
 
Evanovic said:
HarbingerOfDoom said:
Evanovic said:
Quite a lot of regiments, probably mostly European ones, play rules that allow firing 1 shot during the charge, so as to not favour camping lines too much. Any thoughts about having that rule?
And no shooting out of formation promotes chargebattles.

Charging already often allows your opponents to get more shots off at your line before you engage in melee. I would say that allowing firing in the charge merely makes decent melee possible in linebattles.
Well, if you charge and your enemy can get some shots off at you, then you have made a tactical error.
 
HarbingerOfDoom said:
Well, if you charge and your enemy can get some shots off at you, then you have made a tactical error.

Firing in the charge actually makes terrain take less of a stranglehold on the result of the linebattle than it should. There is skill in using terrain, but the randomly generated map is hardly ever balanced.
 
Evanovic said:
HarbingerOfDoom said:
Well, if you charge and your enemy can get some shots off at you, then you have made a tactical error.

It actually makes terrain take less of a stranglehold on the result of the linebattle than it should. There is skill in using terrain, but the randomly generated map is hardly ever balanced.
Then play five rounds on each side = balance.
 
HarbingerOfDoom said:
Then play five rounds on each side = balance.

Fair enough, but if the map is constructed in such a way that the team on the 'better' part of the map is going to have a considerable firing advantage then you're almost taking melee out of the equation altogether. I hope there are some special efforts made in order to make terrain used balanced.

In my own preference though having the rule 'no reloading out of line' instead is going to give a more fun mix of firing tactics and melee.
 
Evanovic said:
HarbingerOfDoom said:
Then play five rounds on each side = balance.

Fair enough, but if the map is constructed in such a way that the team on the 'better' part of the map is going to have a considerable firing advantage then you're almost taking melee out of the equation altogether. I hope there are some special efforts made in order to make terrain used balanced.

In my own preference though having the rule 'no reloading out of line' instead is going to give a more fun mix of firing tactics and melee.
Well, usually the organisers cycle until they found a map that isn't too hilly as to not make it too campy. Most our linebattles have been with the no firing in the charge rule, and nearly all rounds (if not all) in all the linebattles ended with melee. So it's certainly not taken out of the equation. It adds a layer of tactical play, instead of just "spread out, strafe as much as possible and pointblank them in the face".
 
HarbingerOfDoom said:
Most our linebattles have been with the no firing in the charge rule, and nearly all rounds (if not all) in all the linebattles ended with melee. So it's certainly not taken out of the equation. It adds a layer of tactical play, instead of just "spread out, strafe as much as possible and pointblank them in the face".

I would say that melee tactics should be just as hard-earned and rewardable as firing tactics, but I don't believe that limiting firing to lines is conducive to competitive melee in linebattles most of the time. You said that most of your linebattles ended in melee, but how often was the melee a relatively equally-fought affair? Especially with big lines is it hard to engage in melee before the defending team has got a considerable amount of shots fired at you. Allowing the attacking team to fire off at least 1 round of bullets somewhat compensates for that.

At the end of the day the best regiments are still going to be the ones who excell in both firing and melee proficiency, it's just my opinion that melee becomes a bit more of an initiative-based move than simply always a default conclusion to matches.
 
Evanovic said:
HarbingerOfDoom said:
Most our linebattles have been with the no firing in the charge rule, and nearly all rounds (if not all) in all the linebattles ended with melee. So it's certainly not taken out of the equation. It adds a layer of tactical play, instead of just "spread out, strafe as much as possible and pointblank them in the face".

I would say that melee tactics should be just as hard-earned and rewardable as firing tactics, but I don't believe that limiting firing to lines is conducive to competitive melee in linebattles most of the time. You said that most of your linebattles ended in melee, but how often was the melee a relatively equally-fought affair? Especially with big lines is it hard to engage in melee before the defending team has got a considerable amount of shots fired at you. Allowing the attacking team to fire off at least 1 round of bullets somewhat compensates for that.

At the end of the day the best regiments are still going to be the ones who excell in both firing and melee proficiency, it's just my opinion that melee becomes a bit more of an initiative-based move than simply always a default conclusion to matches.
Well, it's the point of shooting to kill as many enemies as possible before engaging into melee. Melee in a linebattle usually isn't and shouldn't have to be equal, that's what shooting is for. By allowing you to shoot in the charge, you're pretty much just throwing away the advantage that a good tactical shooting regiment has. 

You can be a melee and charge oriented clan, you just have to be smart about getting close to your enemy, fire of a volley and going in for the melee. It's perfectly possible. Just be tactical. Don't charge from 100 meters away, of course your regiment is going to take a lot of casualties.

And it's actually a lot easier to execute said melee/charge tactics if you and your enemy has a big line, since it takes a long time for them to form up and shoot, thus you can very easily flank around without them being able to fire.
 
I have to Agree with Harbringer, Allowing firing in a charge promotes a melee match, dis allowing it should help promote more of a linebattle atmosphere, cause lets be honest there are gonna be clans that wont even lineup and exchange volleys most rounds, they will just charge in because its what their good at, instead of having a good LB and mixing it up a little bit.
I know Regiments are gonna say "Melee is what were good at" etc, its a linebattle it shouldn't result in a charge at the start of every round, we played a regiment a while ago, their shooting was amazing and we were superior at melee, but we weren't absolute dickheads and charged everyround, instead we only charged when we needed to after exchanging volleys close to each another, ive a feeling the Championship wont run like this so i wont be applying my regiment, all the same best of luck with it.
 
Allowing firing in a charge promotes a melee match

Some regiments prefers melee, some does not. Furthermore I agree with Harbinger on having 5 rounds with no shooting on the charge, and 5 rounds with shooting on the charge would be for the fair cause.
 
T.Irish said:
I have to Agree with Harbringer, Allowing firing in a charge promotes a melee match, dis allowing it should help promote more of a linebattle atmosphere, cause lets be honest there are gonna be clans that wont even lineup and exchange volleys most rounds, they will just charge in because its what their good at, instead of having a good LB and mixing it up a little bit.
I know Regiments are gonna say "Melee is what were good at" etc, its a linebattle it shouldn't result in a charge at the start of every round, we played a regiment a while ago, their shooting was amazing and we were superior at melee, but we weren't absolute dickheads and charged everyround, instead we only charged when we needed to after exchanging volleys close to each another, ive a feeling the Championship wont run like this so i wont be applying my regiment, all the same best of luck with it.

Charging early and having competitive melee should be a valid outcome for the battle, as not only was it historical (Russians went by 'The Bullet is foolish, the Bayonet wise' and charged often for example, or the French Old Guard renowned in all forms of combat), but also it works well with the warband-engine (melee skill has always been a big part of the game).

If a melee regiment sees a particularly large inadequacy in melee that the other team has, then they should by all means be able to punish them for it. Charging regardless of 'shooting on the charge' puts you at a disadvantage because the enemy can get more shots off at you and more accurate ones (because they have time to aim instead of strafing around), so the charging regiment still has to be very sure that they can pull an early charge off without too many casualties.
 
Evanovic said:
T.Irish said:
I have to Agree with Harbringer, Allowing firing in a charge promotes a melee match, dis allowing it should help promote more of a linebattle atmosphere, cause lets be honest there are gonna be clans that wont even lineup and exchange volleys most rounds, they will just charge in because its what their good at, instead of having a good LB and mixing it up a little bit.
I know Regiments are gonna say "Melee is what were good at" etc, its a linebattle it shouldn't result in a charge at the start of every round, we played a regiment a while ago, their shooting was amazing and we were superior at melee, but we weren't absolute dickheads and charged everyround, instead we only charged when we needed to after exchanging volleys close to each another, ive a feeling the Championship wont run like this so i wont be applying my regiment, all the same best of luck with it.

Charging early and having competitive melee should be a valid outcome for the battle, as not only was it historical (Russians went by 'The Bullet is foolish, the Bayonet wise' and charged often for example, or the French Old Guard renowned in all forms of combat), but also it works well with the warband-engine (melee skill has always been a big part of the game).

If a melee regiment sees a particularly large inadequacy in melee that the other team has, then they should by all means be able to punish them for it. Charging regardless of 'shooting on the charge' puts you at a disadvantage because the enemy can get more shots off at you and more accurate ones (because they have time to aim instead of strafing around), so the charging regiment still has to be very sure that they can pull an early charge off without too many casualties.
That's not really true. If you charge with bullets and the enemy is standing in a line, you can be sure the line will take the heavier beating since they're standing still while the charging force can strafe and dodge all they want.

And as I said before, it's still viable to want to use charge tactics, you just need to be tactical about closing in.
 
Now we accideantly created 2 threads but since i can see there is much more views and comments here i guess we will use this one as the official post...
Uhm thank you all for your suggestions i will speak to eazy about it and we will consider them all .. :smile:
 
HarbingerOfDoom said:
That's not really true. If you charge with bullets and the enemy is standing in a line, you can be sure the line will take the heavier beating since they're standing still while the charging force can strafe and dodge all they want.

Unless the defending line has decided to do volleys only, they will be advantaged even with firing in the charge. This is because the charging guys need to stop to aim and then fire - in this window of time they're a sitting target, it's enough time for one of the guys in the camping line to release the mouse button, especially if they've had 5 seconds to pick their target and wait for it to stand still. Combine this with the fact that generally the camping teams can get more shots off of the attacking team, I think it's pretty certain that the defending team enters melee at a numbers advantage.
 
For some reason all my arguments and standpoints seem to become economy/finance based, but here goes:

Shooting while charging is essential to maintain a balance between regiments prefering shooting and regiments prefering melee:

First a few basic ceteris paribus asumptions:
1) Both sides have an equal number of players
2) Both sides are equally good at shooting, melee and pointblanking, formations, manouvering etc.
3) The map is entierly flat (removes the option of reverse slope camping the enemy into moving)

These basic asumptions mean that any difference in shooting casulties between the sides are caused by the overall desicion of either going straight into melee or starting shooting immediatley.

We also assume that it's a 1v1 linebattle. Thus we have two agents A and B, they have the following option 1 (Shoot directly) 2 (Get into melee directly). This gives us the following matrix of possible outcomes:

linebattlematrix1.png

A1B2 and A2B1 are the same for all intents and purposes, since A=B when it comes to performance.

Now lets just start adding values to different scenarios, these numbers are by no means exact, but they are correct relatively speaking so while the magnitude is off they certainly are right when it comes to ranking which scenario is best.

First we have the option of both sides shooting it out from begining to end at long range: in this situation all casulties are shooting and and as such it will gain the number of 7 just in order to give it a number, this scenario is a bit uninteresting at this point since the equal shooting skill means that the outcome of this scenario is purely down to luck though.

The second scenario regarding shooting is when you are pointblanking the enemy during a charge where they are not allowed to fire back, this I will give the number of 3 since in my experience if the stationary line is firing at will sees the charging line reduced into some sort of borderline permanent state of strafing which means very high casulties from shooting.

The third scenario is pointblanking where both sides are spread out charging eachother, in this scenario melee at large commences alot quicker and as such the shooting kills will be lower than when shooting at chargers that cannot fire back, thus this gets the number 2

The fourth scenario is when the stationary line is shooting at the column advancing towards melee before the charge, this generally results in quite few shooting kills, but they do exist, also these shooting kills means less muskets on one side in the third scenario and thus I allocate these shooting kills the relative value of 1

Then we have the final scenario where you go for melee directly and you are not allowed to shoot back at the enemy when they are pointblanking you during the charge, this gets the value of 0, since you will not be getting any shooting kills.

Lets now make the matrix for the different scenarios using no firing on the charge, remember the important part is not the absolute number of shooting kills but the largest absolute difference in shooting kills. First ruleset, no shooting on the charge:

linebattlematrix2.png

As you can see, in this case the clearly largest difference is between someone charging at someone standing still. The main question is though, is there a strategy that maximizes the difference regardless of what the opponent picks? The answer is yes, standing still and shooting is better, because if the enemy charges you will get the longrange shooting kills as well as the substantial pointblanking kills and if the enemy halts you are atleast not worse of you're at equal numbers of shooting kills which is as good as the best possible outcome of the other option. Thus you want to stand still and shoot under this ruleset if you're playing in a fashion to maximize your chanses at victory.


Second ruleset, with firing on the charge (remember the absolute difference is still the important thing):

linebattlematrix3.png

As you can see, the scenario with the largest difference is still the one where one side tries to close to melee while the other starts shooting immediately, howver, the difference in absolute terms is alot smaller instead of 4 and 0 it's now 3 and 2. Nevertheless, the same reasoning as above applies, which means that if you are playing to maximize your chanses of victory you will still utilize shooting.


So we have now proven that all other things equal shooting will be the dominant tactic regardless of the ruleset, and since the the matrix is symetrical it means that if both sides are going to be shooting, which means that melee does not have any place as a competiteve strategy. This isn't true, as can be observed in competitve linebattles.

The explanation why melee is used at all in linebattles (other than as clean-up) is quite simple, the skill ceiling is higher with melee than with shooting, which means that the possibility and probability to have a sufficiently large gap in skill in melee to bridge the gap of the extra benefit static shooting gives as well as winning comfortably, is alot higher than the chanses of being good enough shots to win shooting comfortably every time.


So the problem where linebattles become melee fests does not lie with charging being overpowered, on the contrary, it's underpowered (even with shooting), but with the fact that the regiment being charged not being good enough in melee. This also illustrates why it's beneficial to be good at shooting, since it forces the enemy forward giving you an advantage, which is determinal between two almost equal opponents.

I base these findings to a large degree on our linebattles against the 8Lr as well as our linebattle against the 51st which is where I fully realised the devestating power no shooting on the charge exercises over getting into melee. Since our melee has been sufficiently equal to that of the 8Lr and 51st meaning that shooting and pointblanking played a very visual role in the outcome of many of the rounds.

Accordingly my bottomline is that playing it with a no shooting while charging rule breaks down almost all usage of melee and kills of a variety of playtyles pidgeonholing it into shooting first until the round is already decided, after which one may or may not charge to speed things up slightly.

Thanks to Evan for the graphics (as per usual)!
 
This is the first time we try and organize such an event, obviously we want it to be fun for the community. A poll was added so you, the community, can decide if shooting while charges should be allowed or not and that poll will decide what the rule on that will be so be sure to vote. Also if you have any questions/suggestions be sure to post them on the thread or you can contact me or Furrnox on steam (steam names are Furrnox and Mr_Eazysteel). Also be sure to SIGN UP on the thread, it would be a pretty lame championship if there's nobody in it. :p

Also about the officer aiming it's just a courtesy, obviously you can accidentally shoot an officer, but I suppose we'll have to rely on the good hearts of the community :p You wont be disqualified if it was an accident, but sometimes it can be very obvious if you officer aim. But hopefully there wont be any incidents of such kind.

Sincerely
Mr_Eazysteel
 
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