The State of Melee - Proposed Changes

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Yeah, i get used to it though, just wish there was a melee NA regiment. RIght now it seems that the more aggressive player is the one that usually wins, attack attack is faster then block attack
 
Yeah, i get used to it though, just wish there was a melee NA regiment. RIght now it seems that the more aggressive player is the one that usually wins, attack attack is faster then block attack

I feel your pain fighting with 150+ ping in American linebattles and the regiment i am in focuses more on melee than shooting whilst in linebattles but it  depends who is leading us. :smile:
 
I suppose you get an additional stun if the opponent had his attack held in, 's why attack attack might be faster than block attack at times, though I've not noticed it.
I like the combat in NW more than MM, but the overhead is a bit wonky at times.
 
+1 to Hekko's post.

The melee in NW would be okay if we hadn't already had MM's, which was better.

In NW there is a complete lack of pace, it feels like you are watching two drunk guys flail at eachother.
 
Dear Harry,

"Fixing the animation to be a proper representation of its length would be the best way to go. As for doing more damage when walking backwards, well that just sounds silly and I don't think its correct.. you weren't aiming for the head whilst moving backwards were you?"

Yeah, I was aiming at the torso deliberately. Also it was done to scarecrows so I'm not even sure if they have a head hitbox. Furthermore if you run forward and do both attacks to the torso you will find that the damage of the overhead is in the mid-high 70s where as the down stab is in the low 100s which suggests that speedbonuses are calculated differently because stats wise the attacks are the same.


"I've noticed this still works for me if they are going from a overhead to downstab feint, if its vice versa they can quickly pull the overhead stab faster than I can"


Funny, for me it's the other way around, if I go to chamber an overhead stab and the enemy switches down my goose is cooked where as when the enemy goes down to up I usually get him.

"Chambering overhead is useless because it is blockable, someone who doesn't even know what chambering is can essentially defend himself against it, which is not something I like. Chamber blocking downstabs isn't so different but because the overhead is so superior I just don't bother with it. I don't think turning speed has effected chamber blocking ability, I think the weapon length is a bigger factor."

Yeah, I first found out about blockable overheads in the beta when we were testing it :smile:

Dear Blue Spy,

"I'd like to weigh in on this that I don't see why riflemen should get the speed of their "club" style attacked nerfed when from my experience regardless of the speed of their attack an adept bayonet user will usually get a stab in and win the fight I've just never personally seen these rifle-butts of death in combat and they only ever seem to work against people that don't even attempt to block attacks in the first place."

I am not asking for the speed to be nerfed, I am just saying that the slow speed gives birth to incredibly high speedbonuses if I have understood the system right.



Another thing that struck me regarding stabs failing to pierce and overheads: if the overhead stab infact still is an overhead swing, but with the animation and hitbox of a stab that would explain some of the oddities with the overhead. An overhead swing gets it's hitbox already on the back swing, and remains out of the sweetspot all the way up and over the shoulder while it is in the sweetspot all the way down on the opposite side, which could explain why there are alot of early pokes as well as why it appears to hang (in conjunction with the bad hitbox).

Anyway, I shall start typing potential solutions and changes that I think will make melee more enjoyable.
 
Might disagree with some things, but this is how a proposol for changes and balance discussion thread should look dammit.

 
Chamber blocking downstabs isn't so different but because the overhead is so superior I just don't bother with it

If i understood this correctly i would have to say that i still think the down attack chamber is a huge part of the melee today already i have had about 7 instances were going for the chamber on the down attack has caused me to win a fight i should have lost. :grin:
 
Increase the speed of the rifle and it will turn into a lightsaber.

Reshortening the length? Just avoid facehug and glances wont occur.

Smoothing feinting, as in, animation between attack parry attack? Not feasible, unless you refer to simply improving the animation (Like Papa Lazaru animations). I would agree with the latter, but considering the nature of the bayonet, is going to be hard.

Slowing the duration of fencing is just slowing the weapon. Which I would agree.

I really like improving the overheard. Right now it feels "clunky".
 
Leberecht Reinhold said:
Reshortening the length? Just avoid facehug and glances wont occur.

Facehugging is also a tactic and getting facehugged can happen whilst being outnumbered; putting more strain on the individual than is needed. It's something that doesn't deserve to be rewarded and hence all efforts should be made to remove its effects.
 
Evanovic said:
Leberecht Reinhold said:
Reshortening the length? Just avoid facehug and glances wont occur.

Facehugging is also a tactic and getting facehugged can happen whilst being outnumbered; putting more strain on the individual than is needed. It's something that doesn't deserve to be rewarded and hence all efforts should be made to remove its effects.

Why not? Its great if you get butterknife. It works even with swords.

Yeah, its not good for the bayonets, but hey, they should keep the distance.
 
Evanovic said:
Leberecht Reinhold said:
Reshortening the length? Just avoid facehug and glances wont occur.

Facehugging is also a tactic and getting facehugged can happen whilst being outnumbered; putting more strain on the individual than is needed. It's something that doesn't deserve to be rewarded and hence all efforts should be made to remove its effects.

Are you saying enemies shouldn't be rewarded for ganging up on you? It sounds like you think the individual should trump teamplay.
 
DanAngleland said:
Are you saying enemies shouldn't be rewarded for ganging up on you? It sounds like you think the individual should trump teamplay.

Facehugging has gotten worse since MM and therefore is rewarding groups of enemies more. This is totally anti-competitive, as an individual is already defacto disadvantaged by being outnumbered. To make it any worse is just going to make the game more and more about numbers (NOT teamplay) than player skill (the thing that determines good teamplay or a good player).
 
No, pretty sure that what you mean is the typical gangbang that happened in MM, happens in other mods and happens in Native.

5 guys? No problem, time to get into batman mode! Just hold down block, and they couldnt kill you for quite a while. A couple of spam here and there, and you are golden.

I dont know how numbers is not teamplay. You know, I always thought teamplay is when a number of people on the same team get together to rape a lone guy because he was too h4x00r for his teammates.
 
When I played public battle on MM: Run into enemy lines dodging bullets(because muskets were less accurate and slower reload) and holding down block and waiting for someone to make a mistake or try to overhead so I could one hit stab em.


When I play public battle on NW: Run into enemy lines, get shot. Respawn next round, make it past the bullets somehow, and get finished off quickly because of different stabs coming at same time.


This is what Vince wanted. Like he said, he logged onto MM once and all he saw was "pro uber l33t" players spin stabbing everyone and it put him off that new players couldn't even get a chance. Now new players have a chance, while better players will still win most of the time. I fail to see any need to change the melee other than iron out the buggy stuff.
 
Maboobs said:
When I played public battle on MM: Run into enemy lines dodging bullets(because muskets were less accurate and slower reload) and holding down block and waiting for someone to make a mistake or try to overhead so I could one hit stab em.


When I play public battle on NW: Run into enemy lines, get shot. Respawn next round, make it past the bullets somehow, and get finished off quickly because of different stabs coming at same time.


This is what Vince wanted. Like he said, he logged onto MM once and all he saw was "pro uber l33t" players spin stabbing everyone and it put him off that new players couldn't even get a chance. Now new players have a chance, while better players will still win most of the time. I fail to see any need to change the melee other than iron out the buggy stuff.

May I point out that outnumbering the enemy always was a bonus in MM, as one could observe on the groupfighting tournament and the groupfighting server. One guy holds his stab in (forcing the lone guy to block down), the other one does an overhead and the guy holding his stab releases the stab when the victim goes to block up/gets thumped on the head and no longer is capable of blocking. Of course it gets more complicated in practice when people don't sit happily and accept being double teamed but that's where skill comes in.
 
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