Ships in v2.5; What's the use of a 50k investment?

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hieronymos

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Paid my 50k, and went pirate-hunting; or raided traders at war with Nords, who hold my merc contract.
Captured prisoners...but no addtional loot above the usual.
Sure, speed of ships is faster than overland.

But the new changes to commodities qualities and prices...is still a bit strange. But the only thing I ever really depended on was iron from Curaw.

So, trading by sea doesn't seem that lucrative..

Is there then any practical reason to owning and using a ship?
................

Personally, I changed parties_templates to have sea raider boats chock full of close on 90 baddies + a hual of good quality Nord prisoners to free.. Otherwise, the boat seems of questionable value; unlike in Brytenwalda, where they're faster, and thus more useful for long-distance travel.

Perhaps increase their speed?
Create greater loot drops? Like high priced trade goods for national traders?

Also, having a Personal Lair, as in Brytenwalda would be a great complement to being an early-mid game pirate hunter, as you could stash your unneeded troops there and make the <90 crew cap.

Ship ownership is a great concept, and a solid addition to the mod, but it still needs some tweaking, imo.
 
Right now it's more of a gimmick without much purpose to it.
If I recall right, in a future version of Floris the worldmap will be changed to include islands, or something, to give this feature more of a reason to be used.
 
All the trade good balancing came from the warband developers in their 1.143 update - we didnt make any additional changes in 2.5.
 
You can make some routes faster then on land, e.g. Wercheg to Sargoth/Thir or Shariz to Yalen/Praven since you can take a more direct route then overland and bypass mountains that slow you down.

But no, not worth it for 50k atm.

I am really looking forward to an expansion of the seafaring system with proper incentives to use the ships.


However the modders should keep in mind that just adding island cities alone doesnt make it worthwhile, the island cities also need to have something unique about them e.g. provide tradegoods and/or items (or maybe also quests and special troops ?) that cant be purchased anywhere else (or at least not at that price :wink: ) .

Also if you make the island cities conquerable keep in mind that as long as the player only (and no lords) can use the ships any oversea town is basically invulnerable once in player hand which could potentially be really unbalanced.
A solution for that could be to make them not conquerable either hardcoded or by giving them garrisons that cant be worn down by a 130 man army that fits in the ship (provided you can take only 1 ship still ofc). Another but worse option would be to make a 2nd smaller continent with 3-4 cities and a full 7th faction that would try to take back the towns, but then you get the same problem again once they are all in player hand, really the only option is preventing them from being conquered in the first place or giving them zero money output to make holding them pointless, but that would be unrealistic too.

Apart from that adding coastal raid scenes to all costal cities would be a great idea, basically like village raiding just that you fight part of the city garrison in the streets and get 2-3x as much loot as in a village raid, relationship hits should also be included, although probalby not as severe as with a village since it would discourage using that feature too much, -3/-5 or so with the raided town should suffice.
 
Raygereio said:
Right now it's more of a gimmick without much purpose to it.
If I recall right, in a future version of Floris the worldmap will be changed to include islands, or something, to give this feature more of a reason to be used.

That's great news. Adding more land to Floris will be awesome.
 
Raiding the Royal Trader ships should be fairly profitable, particularly mid-to-late game (as should raiding caravans) as these now have persistent inventories/wealth for you to steal, based on their trade routes and the commerce they have done in the past.

Of course, the imbalanced nature of bandits at present might be throwing that off...
 
I raided a few Vaegir traders in early game (day30-ish); but they dropped no loot to speak of...

Didn't know if it's possible to demand a 'toll' from traders, like with caravans.
 
if two or three more factions, based on islands and another continent with lords and such who could sail as well would be great...and make ships cheaper, and change the name from cogs to galleys since they aren't represented as cogs in any way...
 
As long as Santa's in town, I'd like to add to the wish list:

1) more ship (naval) battlefields.
1a) Or at least the possibility of player spawning at the other side of the existing ship battlefield.
2) different types of ships: viking, cog, caravel. All with different costs + their own storage chest(s) & variable crew sizes (for example: 90, 120, 180). It'd be so much fun to bash sea raider heads from the high deck and forecastle of my very own caravel!
3) Sea Raiders as their own faction, with 1-2 Island cities, and 1-3 Island castles..or perhaps on an icebound landmass jutting down from the northern edge of the map. If ships only hold 90 troops though, this could make taking an island castle or city an interesting challenge! And Sea Raider nobility would absolutely have to have only the very hottest blond&blue-eyed nordic bachelorettes.

Since preying on Sea Raider ships is such a zero sum game (currently), I just added some decent Nord & Vaegir prisoners to Sea Raider ship parties. Not too sweet; but makes it worth the time, money, and casualties.
 
This uses the Brytenwalda ship system, so this ise nice and familiar. Personally, I haven't found them a good investment. Mainly I need to be on shore to defend my kingdom, as most vassals are rubbish, and despite my giving them lots of troops seem to end up being knocked about by bandits.

Please have lairs. A castle might seem the thing, but a low right to rule kingdom, can have a short life.
 
I think we should be able to build hideouts like on Brytenwalda, but have the option to upgrade it into a castle, then a Town, while it builds up some villages around it (with the max bein 3), I see no reason for not to add this feature (only Player Faction city in the whole game)

As for the ships, I think it lacks tons of flavour, but I would agree with having other lands to conquer with other lords, that "balance whine" the guy has bein putting out up there, isn't accountable, whenever I would dominate a whole kingdom, no one would be able to conquer me back, and, it started turning into an annoyance, whenever they tried, I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to conquer an island permanently, since annoyances are what come after a really well played game! Why do you think we play multiple games? hahaha With that lords coming back feature, I'm pretty sure that once in a time we would auto-lose a town at the island, so, just shoosh hahaha =P
 
xdj1nn said:
I think we should be able to build hideouts like on Brytenwalda, but have the option to upgrade it into a castle, then a Town, while it builds up some villages around it (with the max bein 3), I see no reason for not to add this feature (only Player Faction city in the whole game)

As for the ships, I think it lacks tons of flavour, but I would agree with having other lands to conquer with other lords, that "balance whine" the guy has bein putting out up there, isn't accountable, whenever I would dominate a whole kingdom, no one would be able to conquer me back, and, it started turning into an annoyance, whenever they tried, I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to conquer an island permanently, since annoyances are what come after a really well played game! Why do you think we play multiple games? hahaha With that lords coming back feature, I'm pretty sure that once in a time we would auto-lose a town at the island, so, just shoosh hahaha =P

I don't think the game's engine will support something like that. Although a player-made settlement WOULD be cool, I don't think it'd actually work. Maybe in M&B2
 
Nothing engine-side problematic with it. The challenges are all script-side, so surmountable...the question becomes whether it is worth the time and the effect it will have on gameplay/balance.

For instance, we've got the "Outposts" kit mostly ready--you can build and upgrade a fortified camp to outpost tower to fort. But even adding that, without any of the economy effects of being a village or town, there are a number of script places it needs to be addressed so the AI knows what to do with a new siege-able center just showing up.
 
^^^^

Caba you just made me drool here about this outpost thing :grin:.... Please say it's coming with 2.6. the way i been playing with entrenchment i can just imagine the sheer domination factor i will have with actually building a fort :twisted:
 
the flavor text in game about the nord kingdom mentions that theyre related distantly to the sea raiders, perhaps have them, and another type of non nord sea raider faction, on islands and such, or perhaps simply small sea raider hideouts out to sea?
 
I found out, that if there is a caravan master among the crew, the ship can be sent to another harbor for trade. Though, it will not return back, so  you need to get to the other harbor and send the ship elsewhere. Best would be to have a fleet of traders and one personal shipto manage them and travel. But as the ship costs ****ing 50k, you must be really rich to do such thing. Im no sure what is the profit from one journy, but if the system is well set up, it should be around 2,5k weekly. I think, for the maximum profit, you are about to constantly send ships to harbors and handle things around while traveling from harbor to harbor, as the ship is really quick. If it is as i think, this would be way to get a lot of money and the 50k investment wouldn't be for nothing....:smile:
 
Sorry to necro this thread but. . .

I think what's missing from ships is the profit motive. One makes 50k investment in ships only to find that they are getting the same loot as before.

Privateering should be high risk and high gain. You run the risk of being over run by pirates or maybe even Royal Traders but you also have the chance of capturing ships and bringing the prisoners and ships back to port to sell. There's no reason we shouldn't be able to capture prizes and the huge resale penalty means they won't unbalance the game economically.

That said, it might be nice to create patrols which we can order to blockade a city.

And on a slightly broader note, it would be nice if any kind of patrol that captured prisoners brought those prisoners back to your population center rather than disbanding them. This would help offset the cost of patrols and make them more viable/useful.
 
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