EMERGENCY - Let's not let them make Nations Cup last only 3 matches

Users who are viewing this thread

Ok I copy/paste that wall of text I put in another thread, because I think this matter is important enough to deserve its own chapter.

Alex_C said:
Rule Modified 24/02:

  • Before the knockout stage, teams will be split into groups of four - with some groups possibly being sized five or three due to odd numbers - and each team will play each other team in its group. The top team from each group will continue to the knock-out stage. Draws are decided by play-off matches.
  • If the numbers do not match up to those required for a knockout tournament, the top-achieving second places from each group will be allowed through, depending on how many are needed for the numbers to match up.
I quote it here because I guess the rule thread has to be kept clear.

I just want to say that I dislike this way of doing selections, and it would be fine if the community reacts to this rule and give its opinion before it starts.

Indeed we have 18 teams (unless some new teams appeared in the last couple days), and making groups of 4 means this :
Group A : 5 teams - 4 eliminated / 1 qualified
Group B : 5 teams - 4 eliminated / 1 qualified
Group C : 4 teams - 3 eliminated / 1 qualified
Group D : 4 teams - 3 eliminated / 1 qualified

This means :
- only 3/4 matches for 78% of teams
- 22% of teams go to knockout stages, but knockout stage will only be semifinals.
- being in a group of 5 teams is unfair (more chances to have several scary teams in your group).

I think we should just copy/paste what was done last year cause it perfectly fits with the number of 18 teams we have.

We could do 3 groups of 6. In each group 4 would qualify, which leaves chance to any team, and everybody is sure to play 5 matches. So we have 12 teams that could be put in another group stage (4 groups of 3, best way to go from a mutiple of 3 (1:cool: to a mutiple of 2 required for knock-out).

Then we can go with 8 teams towards knock-out stages. Every time will have had its fun.

Maybe if you dislike what was done last year (some people might think it took too long), then just remove second group stages, but please make first phase chunky enough.

GUYS PLEASE HELP ME ON THAT COMPLAINT FOR THE SAKE OF THE GAME. TIME FOR OUR BEST WHINERS TO SHOW THEIR VIRTUE.
 
Sorry for double posting but I found that precious formal proof that wise Captain Lust is on the rebel side :

captain lust said:
Yeah I really don't like the "1 team qualifies" thing. I think a minimum of half the teams should proceed beyond the group stage or every team that loses their first match will just lose interest.
 
arsenic_vengeur said:
Alex_C said:
Rule Modified 24/02:

  • Before the knockout stage, teams will be split into groups of four - with some groups possibly being sized five or three due to odd numbers - and each team will play each other team in its group. The top team from each group will continue to the knock-out stage. Draws are decided by play-off matches.
  • If the numbers do not match up to those required for a knockout tournament, the top-achieving second places from each group will be allowed through, depending on how many are needed for the numbers to match up.
I quote it here because I guess the rule thread has to be kept clear.

I just want to say that I dislike this way of doing selections, and it would be fine if the community reacts to this rule and give its opinion before it starts.

Indeed we have 18 teams (unless some new teams appeared in the last couple days), and making groups of 4 means this :
Group A : 5 teams - 4 eliminated / 1 qualified
Group B : 5 teams - 4 eliminated / 1 qualified
Group C : 4 teams - 3 eliminated / 1 qualified
Group D : 4 teams - 3 eliminated / 1 qualified

This means :
- only 3/4 matches for 78% of teams
- 22% of teams go to knockout stages, but knockout stage will only be semifinals.
- being in a group of 5 teams is unfair (more chances to have several scary teams in your group).

I think we should just copy/paste what was done last year cause it perfectly fits with the number of 18 teams we have.

We could do 3 groups of 6. In each group 4 would qualify, which leaves chance to any team, and everybody is sure to play 5 matches. So we have 12 teams that could be put in another group stage (4 groups of 3, best way to go from a mutiple of 3 (1:cool: to a mutiple of 2 required for knock-out).

Then we can go with 8 teams towards knock-out stages. Every time will have had its fun.

Maybe if you dislike what was done last year (some people might think it took too long), then just remove second group stages, but please make first phase chunky enough.

GUYS PLEASE HELP ME ON THAT COMPLAINT FOR THE SAKE OF THE GAME. TIME FOR OUR BEST WHINERS TO SHOW THEIR VIRTUE.

For the knock-out stage, we need to have whittled the 18 teams we have at present down to 8 teams. The groups will be in a 4-4-4-3-3 pattern. If you look at the rule, second places can qualify if we need more to make up to those 8 teams, meaning that 5 first place teams will qualify from each group, then 3 second place teams will also qualify, with draws being decided by qualifiers. Three teams (16.66%) will only play 3 matches, two teams (11.11%) will only play 2 matches.

If two teams qualify from each group, we'd have 10 teams in the knockout stage, so would have to lose 2 teams anyway. 44.44% of teams will be going to knockout stage.
 
Say the situation arises whereby the 2nd teams in grous A and B both have 2 wins (so will certainly qualify) but the "joint 2nd" placed teams in Group C all have 1 win and the 2nd placed teams in both Groups D and E have 1 win. How will the top of those 5 teams be fairly picked with qualifiers?

Erminas said:
Why not make three groups of six NC teams,then best 2 from each group,and two best third teams go to the knockout stage?
How would you decide the best third teams when it's likely none of them will have any wins?
 
captain lust said:
Say the situation arises whereby the 2nd teams in grous A and B both have 2 wins (so will certainly qualify) but the "joint 2nd" placed teams in Group C all have 1 win and the 2nd placed teams in both Groups D and E have 1 win. How will the top of those 5 teams be fairly picked with qualifiers?

Erminas said:
Why not make three groups of six NC teams,then best 2 from each group,and two best third teams go to the knockout stage?
How would you decide the best third teams when it's likely none of them will have any wins?
They will have wins because each team plays five matches this way(so,lets say if the best third team lost to the first and second,they wouldn't be third if they didn't win some of the remaining matches).But,yes i understand a question,and i have just seen that round difference will not be used.Playoffs for the best third teams maybe(if it's needed)?
 
Erminas said:
captain lust said:
How would you decide the best third teams when it's likely none of them will have any wins?
They will have wins because each team plays five matches this way(so,lets say if the best third team lost to the first and second,they wouldn't be third if they didn't win some of the remaining matches).But,yes i understand a question,and i have just seen that round difference will not be used.Playoffs for the best third teams maybe(if it's needed)?
Sorry my bad. I misread your post.

Anyway, I think the format will probably work but fundamentally I'd always prefer to have a minimum of 50% of teams progressing at each stage.
 
Yes,I agree with that lust.Champions League(Football,or soccer for some)system would do nice here in my opinion,but it can't be applied when we have 18 teams.
 
I think I can understand Alex's reasoning, the ENL next cycle starts soon right? we had problems with a few clans at the end of last cycle cause of NC and ENL, and that was when the NC hadn't even started. If both go on at the same time I think it's fairly possible that one or both competitions may suffer.

Having said that I would also prefer to see a longer/bigger knockout stage :razz:
 
Erminas said:
Why not make three groups of six NC teams,then best 2 from each group,and two best third teams go to the knockout stage?

Does anyone have any objections to this?
 
Well there are even fewer teams qualifying at the group stage under that system. What I really think needs to be avoided is a situation where teams feel like they've had it after two matches and just stop trying. It causes imbalance and means there are often too many boring matches being played.

Personally I'd prefer to see 4 "qualifying" groups (4-4-5-5) which basically seed the teams for a 16 team knockout competition (whilst knocking 2 teams out - tough luck for the two last placed teams in the 5 team groups). That might seem long winded but actually it would only mean 8 match weeks instead of the current 6 and every team would get at least 4 matches. It would also make for a really well balanced and interesting knockout bracket.

Alternatively, you could do 6 groups of 3, 4 groups of 3 then an 8 team knockout. That's 9 match weeks but it gets rid of the less organised teams a lot faster.
 
Will seed a 16-team knockout from the positions in the group stage as suggested by lustig. Brackets and stuff will be up soon. =^}
 
arsenic_vengeur said:
I think we should just copy/paste what was done last year cause it perfectly fits with the number of 18 teams we have.

We could do 3 groups of 6. In each group 4 would qualify, which leaves chance to any team, and everybody is sure to play 5 matches. So we have 12 teams that could be put in another group stage (4 groups of 3, best way to go from a mutiple of 3 (1:cool: to a mutiple of 2 required for knock-out).

Then we can go with 8 teams towards knock-out stages. Every time will have had its fun.

This.
 
The big disadvantage to that is how long it takes. 11 match weeks is ages and that could take anything up to 13 weeks with qualifiers and inevitable scheduling difficulties.

Also, what happened last time was that some teams just couldn't hold it together for very long and it became a pain for everyone involved trying to schedule matches, which were often quite tedious. I think the "qualifying group" system should do quite well, since it guarantees 4 matches for every team and no team is ever forced to play a match at a point where they simply cannot proceed regardless of the result.
 
It's been changed:

Alex_C said:
Rule Modified 24/02:

  • Before the knockout stage, teams will be split into two groups of four and two groups of five and each team will play each other team in its group. Each team except the bottom two teams in the two groups of five will qualify for the knock-out round, with their positions in the knock-out stage being seeded by their performance in the group stage. Draws are decided by play-off matches.
 
Back
Top Bottom