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KuroiNekouPL said:
KuroiNekouPL said:
There's a simple way of preserving you from waiting... Don't die... :roll:
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Reply's like those don't solve problems, please reply with something constructive.
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It was constructive. Because if you'll be cautious, you wont die easily. It's not native, where you just run around and slash people. Here it's easier to die, and playing a hero is not a good idea, since single bullet to your chest can kill you, unlike arrows in native.
If you stay out of trouble, everything will be fine. It's the best way of preserving yourself from waiting.
[/quote]

There's a freakin' war out there how do you propose one should stay out of trouble  :roll:
It's obvious, when someone comments relating to dying everyone persumes the one commenting for a ***** and says the most worthless comment of all "don't die". Problem is not one person dying, it's everyone dying. Problem is to much time between spawn after death which results mostly in lost game after very few rounds.

Forgive me being rude not my intention
 
Will there be naval battles implemented later on? I haven't been looking through the posts so I dunno if this has been suggested a thousand times. 
 
Eiríkr Rauði said:
HarbingerOfDoom said:
Get a 250 slot European server and make the battle maps smaller, takes forever for people to respawn and it's just plain boring
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Already struggle to fill current servers.

Find some patience and don't die?
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So, everyone should just camp behind a tree trying not to die? Sounds like loads of fun.
 
matmannen said:
KuroiNekouPL said:
KuroiNekouPL said:
There's a simple way of preserving you from waiting... Don't die... :roll:
Click to expand...
Reply's like those don't solve problems, please reply with something constructive.
Click to expand...
It was constructive. Because if you'll be cautious, you wont die easily. It's not native, where you just run around and slash people. Here it's easier to die, and playing a hero is not a good idea, since single bullet to your chest can kill you, unlike arrows in native.
If you stay out of trouble, everything will be fine. It's the best way of preserving yourself from waiting.
Click to expand...
There's a freakin' war out there how do you propose one should stay out of trouble  :roll:
It's obvious, when someone comments relating to dying everyone persumes the one commenting for a ***** and says the most worthless comment of all "don't die". Problem is not one person dying, it's everyone dying. Problem is to much time between spawn after death which results mostly in lost game after very few rounds.

Forgive me being rude not my intention
[/quote]
Hadn't seen your comment on this, and it's exactly what I mean. It's a war game, meant to fight each other, not to camp around and "preserve life". The problem can easily be solved by less campy maps. Whilst the current maps do look good, they are way too grand scale for 40 man battles.
 
HarbingerOfDoom said:
matmannen said:
KuroiNekouPL said:
matmannen said:
KuroiNekouPL said:
There's a simple way of preserving you from waiting... Don't die... :roll:
Click to expand...
Reply's like those don't solve problems, please reply with something constructive.
Click to expand...
It was constructive. Because if you'll be cautious, you wont die easily. It's not native, where you just run around and slash people. Here it's easier to die, and playing a hero is not a good idea, since single bullet to your chest can kill you, unlike arrows in native.
If you stay out of trouble, everything will be fine. It's the best way of preserving yourself from waiting.
Click to expand...
There's a freakin' war out there how do you propose one should stay out of trouble  :roll:
It's obvious, when someone comments relating to dying everyone persumes the one commenting for a ***** and says the most worthless comment of all "don't die". Problem is not one person dying, it's everyone dying. Problem is to much time between spawn after death which results mostly in lost game after very few rounds.

Forgive me being rude not my intention
Click to expand...
Hadn't seen your comment on this, and it's exactly what I mean. It's a war game, meant to fight each other, not to camp around and "preserve life". The problem can easily be solved by less campy maps. Whilst the current maps do look good, they are way too grand scale for 40 man battles.
Click to expand...

First; fixed the quote bubble.

Second; Yes, this is a war game. However that does not automatically qualify a player to wilfully throw his life away. Given that the most popular form of playing the mod right now is in Invasion, I think it's fair to say that playing it safe and 'camping' (as you so call it) is the most productive method.  The problem is that you come from MM where players are accustomed to marching into battle straight away as a group and firing in a rough group at the enemy whom coincidently are doing the same, public or not. This isn't that period nor that mod. The Deluge here certainly does not regulate that form of behaviour - play as you can to gain the kills, whether it be invasion or battle.

Less campy maps is a bit of a misnomer and far off the mark. How would you describe a 'less campy map'? Maybe something like MM where there is one house in the middle of an flat field? Would you prefer an empty field? I'm pretty sure however that any group of players can find a way to even camp the most sparely decorated of maps.
 
Sure. It's war, so let's charge against 50 bots with 10 men. Marvelous.  :???:

Teamplay of almost every type is connected with camping. And invasion is teamplay mode. If you want to keep scoring frags, go to DM or battle, because invasion consists of defending and holding the narrowest passes, which is equal to camping. Spawning every 2 or 3 rounds would make invasion too easy and boring. If you can't fight carefully enough to survive 3 minutes, don't play it.

By the way, because you will probably tell that no one can survive melee with bots - do you know Vaslije Mitu? YourStepDad on forum. I've seen him fighting with 2h (a lot shorter than a pike), slaughtering 7 bots every round, and dying... as a last man standing. If you don't believe me, ask him.
 
Gentlemen, let us keep this thread clean for suggestions.

During the movie event today it was extremely obvious that the pikes are too weak. 30 pikemen got slaughtered by 25 Polish hussars with only about 8 losses.
This is outrageous.
1. Make horses weaker. These horses take a whole bunch of beating, they can survive running straight into a braced pike. This is wrong. Make the horses weak. For example, in the battle of Kircholm the Polish horses were those who got the heaviest casualties. In this event only about 5 horses died and 7-8 riders died.
2. Pikes break/get dropped too quickly. This combined with 1) is what makes the enemy win. They charge straight at you, them and their horse survives and... Then you stab again, and kill them? Nope. Your pike is broken and you are dead while the cavalry can still fight at full efficiency with sabres and swords.
3. Pikes need to be a bit longer.

I do not see Polish winged hussars beating an organised and steady pike formation. Not with a frontal attack.
Just my 2 cents.
 
Haresus said:
Gentlemen, let us keep this thread clean for suggestions.

During the movie event today it was extremely obvious that the pikes are too weak. 30 pikemen got slaughtered by 25 Polish hussars with only about 8 losses.
This is outrageous.
1. Make horses weaker. These horses take a whole bunch of beating, they can survive running straight into a braced pike. This is wrong. Make the horses weak. For example, in the battle of Kircholm the Polish horses were those who got the heaviest casualties. In this event only about 5 horses died and 7-8 riders died.
2. Pikes break/get dropped too quickly. This combined with 1) is what makes the enemy win. They charge straight at you, them and their horse survives and... Then you stab again, and kill them? Nope. Your pike is broken and you are dead while the cavalry can still fight at full efficiency with sabres and swords.
3. Pikes need to be a bit longer.

I do not see Polish winged hussars beating an organised and steady pike formation. Not with a frontal attack.
Just my 2 cents.
Click to expand...

I do agree to a certain extent, pikes are nerfed too much for certain. Not sure about length, but maybe abit more power. Horses are also extremely strong like you say, I think I recall the weakest horse taking about 5 slashes of a saber to die if not more.
 
Just a historical note about Kircholm you mentioned, some statistics:

Forces

Swedish:
11 000, including many pikemen and musketeers, only a little cavalry

Polish:
5 000, including 1600 hussars, the rest were reiters and light cavalry.

And now the losses....

Swedish:
9 000 killed

Polish:
100 killed, 300 wounded.

Swedes gonna hate.  :smile:

If cavalry wasn't that strong, how would you explain that crushing defeat of Sweden?
 
Hofiko said:
Just a historical note about Kircholm you mentioned, some statistics:

Forces

Swedish:
11 000, including many pikemen and musketeers, only a little cavalry

Polish:
5 000, including 1600 hussars, the rest were reiters and light cavalry.

And now the losses....

Swedish:
9 000 killed

Polish:
100 killed, 300 wounded.

Swedes gonna hate.  :smile:

If cavalry wasn't that strong, how would you explain that crushing defeat of Sweden?
Click to expand...

Swedish army was untrained and weak, needed reform to counter polish heavy cav. In the begining of 1600 reforms started and sweden beat the "unbeatable polish hussers". The entire army was made lighter. Cav stopped using corronade tactict implimentet shock, those kind of things.
 
Sorry sir, but I think you have no idea what are you talking about. :smile: You said that the reforms were made in 1600, and then hussars were defeated easily? Cool. But the battle of Kircholm shown above took place in autumn A.D. 1605. :smile:
 
I used Kircholm as a source that horses were the vulnearable part of their cavalry. The riders were dressed in heavy armor and could take a lot of beating, but their horses could still be killed as easily as any horse.

If you like to think that I go around screaming in anger about how some possible unknown ancestors of mine went and died 400 years ago, go ahead, I will not stop you.
 
Hofiko said:
Sorry sir, but I think you have no idea what are you talking about. :smile: You said that the reforms were made in 1600, and then hussars were defeated easily? Cool. But the battle of Kircholm shown above took place in autumn A.D. 1605. :smile:
Click to expand...

Actually i know what i was speaking about, reforms started shortly after the coronation of Gustav Adolf in 1611. In 1617 after Pernau was captured army marched on Riga 1621. By 1629 the two nations reached a peace agreement and Sweden had successfully gained Livonia (about the whole of Estonia, and half latvia) from the common wealth.

P.S I never said the hussars were easily fought. By using polish cavalry tactics Sweden could be successfull.
Also one of the reasons the polish army could beat the bigger swedish army was through their incredible tactics, the heavy cavalry was able to immobilize the swedes in a blob, easily run down. So polish heavy cavalry ruled I'll give you that.
But Swedish army got lighter after that fiasco so they couldn't be beaten with the same tactics, hussars got obsolete, but they still ruled for a long time when fighting other under equiped armies.   
 
Hofiko said:
If cavalry wasn't that strong, how would you explain that crushing defeat of Sweden?
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To be fair, most of the Swedish losses came from tactical stupidity on their end and perhaps genius on the other, rather than the raw strength of the hussar. If Wikipedia is to believed, most of the Swedish losses were had after the battle, during their retreat through rather inhospitable ground such as dense forests and marches. That's not to say that the cavalry was by any means weak, but it was by no means an all-powerful force that could no-brains steamroll everything. An organised front of infantry, which seems to be what we are discussing here, would most likely have been a large obstacle to be avoided or flanked rather than a breeze which it apparently was in this situation.

The Polish-Lithuanian losses numbered only about 100 dead and 200 wounded, although the Hussars, in particular, lost a large part of their trained battle horses.
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During the hussar's charges it was the horses that took the greatest damage, the riders being largely protected by the body and heads of their horses.
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(Wikipedia, again)

Further quotes on the idea of weakening horses from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kircholm
 
Exactly, Odenar got it written better than I did. An organised pikewall will stop enemy cavalry if attacked head on. End of story.
That does not happen.
 
Remove the Bot blocking crap. Played the first time today and teams just camp behind an overtuned table, where the enemy is too stupid to walk around and basically headshots them one by one while the AI stand there like...well idiots round after round. That makes the game entirely boring.
 
To make it clear: I do not defend the myth about immortal cyborg hussars, charging the enemy on their unicorns... and crap like that. :razz: I'm saying that in certain circumstances it should be impossible to stop the charge, because there is no way to do that, simply. However, I think horses are too manouverable - hussars are extremely heavy cavalry, it is rather weird to see them circling the enemy like tatars and stabbing him in the back with cutlass. My suggestion is to make manouverability lower, not changing other stats.

Odenar said:
The Polish-Lithuanian losses numbered only about 100 dead and 200 wounded, although the Hussars, in particular, lost a large part of their trained battle horses.
Click to expand...
During the hussar's charges it was the horses that took the greatest damage, the riders being largely protected by the body and heads of their horses.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Yes, I know that many horses died. But Wikipedia does not tell when. Polish horses were very strong, and even after being hit three (!) times by a musket bullet, they often kept charging on adrenaline boost, dying after the battle, not in it. And mod shows the very middle of the battle, doesn't it? :smile:
 
Perhaps not reducing their health but instead somehow increasing the damage of the braced pikes against horses would be the best thing to do. Or perhaps making the pikes stop the horses, even if they are not killed. (If they don't do that already, I've never been able to get anyone with a braced pike yet.) Despite individual bullets and slashes perhaps not putting it to the ground immediately, I think a grounded pike through the throat would be an issue for even the most berserker rage horses.

Further reducing manoeuvrability and/or speed of the armoured horses and riders seems like a good idea.
 
Odenar said:
Perhaps not reducing their health but instead somehow increasing the damage of the braced pikes against horses would be the best thing to do. Or perhaps making the pikes stop the horses, even if they are not killed. (If they don't do that already, I've never been able to get anyone with a braced pike yet.) Despite individual bullets and slashes perhaps not putting it to the ground immediately, I think a grounded pike through the throat would be an issue for even the most berserker rage horses.

Further reducing manoeuvrability and/or speed of the armoured horses and riders seems like a good idea.
Click to expand...

About your idea on the braced pike stopping a horse - if the horse was to hit the pike head on, then fair enough this would be the case. But if this was too be implemented, then even if someone clips a horse on the backside while it is riding then that also might stop the horse - which is not right. At least I think that would happen anyway.
 
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