Anti-Cheat System

actually halrik we all read what you had to say and understood what you had to say, what we are disagreeing with is the way in which you said it.

It was rude and aggressive and unnecessary...

so you do not like having the cheat system turned off because your game glitches out on you, ok fine, that's your opinion and I am sure computica is happy to hear your likes and dislikes of the game, because he seems the kind of guy who appreciates feedback from the community. However the way you phrased and shared your view was just stupid, and you need to learn to chill out. I have played SoD for ages and never once needed the cheat system.. and one of the goals that computica is aiming for with the atmosphere of his game is for the player to feel overwhelmed and out of their depth by the environment they find themselves in, so that life in panovosa is a constant struggle for survival and forging their kingdom is a huge task. So the ability to cheat and skip over difficult moments goes against that goal.

To add to that the only thing I've cheat blocked are tournaments and duels. That shouldn't be much of an issue. You should be able to cheat everywhere else. So Halrik, please calm down and just chat with us on the forum nicely.

I don't usually resort to cheats in game, so this anti-cheat system won't bother my game - except for one little detail. When I actually do resort to cheats, it is for testing purposes. Most of the time I can't spare enough hours to run around the map, gather money to buy items, etc, but I want to try out new items, troops and features, hencheforth I cheat to save time and cover what I want to see in a shorter period.

Testing duel features (and when/if we add them, voice effects) would be smoother without anti-cheat until we are sure they work okay because we may not always be able to win a duel fairly, especially if we'll raise Lord health and/or add story characters with helluva high HP later on, which will result in longer testings.

In some regard, I can understand Halrik's complaint (even though he was plain and somewhat rude in voicing it, not to mention offending others publically is a wrong thing to do); if people want to cheat because something is imbalanced, bugged, or they are not so experienced players, or turn out to be short on time for some reason (ie. someone else needs to use the comp and the guy doesn't want to give up cos' he/she plays "realistic" - no quit without saving), that's okay IMO. Again, I personally don't use cheats unless it's for testing. Dunno about the rest of the community.

Maybe we could make a poll about it or make the feature optional (on/off switch), but that's just my suggestion; the final choice is of course Computica's; if he doesn't think it will hinder testing or annoy the majority of players, that's fine with me. 

MorrisB said:

I don't usually resort to cheats in game, so this anti-cheat system won't bother my game - except for one little detail. When I actually do resort to cheats, it is for testing purposes. Most of the time I can't spare enough hours to run around the map, gather money to buy items, etc, but I want to try out new items, troops and features, hencheforth I cheat to save time and cover what I want to see in a shorter period.
Testing duel features (and when/if we add them, voice effects) would be smoother without anti-cheat until we are sure they work okay because we may not always be able to win a duel fairly, especially if we'll raise Lord health and/or add story characters with helluva high HP later on, which will result in longer testings.
In some regard, I can understand Halrik's complaint (even though he was plain and somewhat rude in voicing it, not to mention offending others publically is a wrong thing to do); if people want to cheat because something is imbalanced, bugged, or they are not so experienced players, or turn out to be short on time for some reason (ie. someone else needs to use the comp and the guy doesn't want to give up cos' he/she plays "realistic" - no quit without saving), that's okay IMO. Again, I personally don't use cheats unless it's for testing. Dunno about the rest of the community.
Maybe we could make a poll about it or make the feature optional (on/off switch), but that's just my suggestion; the final choice is of course Computica's; if he doesn't think it will hinder testing or annoy the majority of players, that's fine with me. 

Click to expand...

MorrisB,

You can still run slow, and that is all the cheating you need unless you are charging cannons with butter knives.  This does make tournaments more bothersome, and consequently reduces your stature as a player with the court ladies at feasts, but it isn't as much of a shot to the nuts for testers as I expected.

Besides, we've offered Halrik a perfectly reasonable workaround.  I get a yacht, he gets the anti-cheat system removed.  What could be more fair than that?

I am aware that the anti-cheat kicks in only in tournaments and duels; the former doesn't bother me much as 1. tournaments are unlikely to be radically changed, and 2. I rarely take part in any (I prefer grinding  ), and 3. scene errors (cavalry getting stuck in walls, as Halrik mentioned) will be eventually sorted out. While they are in-game, though, these errors indeed ruin tournaments (and thus fun factor), regardless whether the player plays fair or cheats. As long as they are in that state, sometimes you have to resort to cheat to keep playing whether you like it or not.

What concerns me more test-wise are the battle duels because these will be expanded and are subjects to later modification, hencheforth it is possible that testing will be constantly required as we update the feature. Now, in case we put in story-related boss fights with Governors/Kings/Androids/etc. who have 500 or so HP, testing may not be as quick as we'd like it to be...

Of course I may be overreacting, but I nevertheless think it would be reasonable to hold a voting concerning this feature. We had polls for Calradian factions, gunpowder weapons and such, why not have one for this ?

MorrisB said:

I am aware that the anti-cheat kicks in only in tournaments and duels; the former doesn't bother me much as 1. tournaments are unlikely to be radically changed,

Click to expand...

I don't see why not, I actually want to change them or spice them up a bit. I'm sure I could do something to the tournaments to make them more interesting.

MorrisB said:

and 2. I rarely take part in any (I prefer grinding  ), and 3. scene errors (cavalry getting stuck in walls, as Halrik mentioned)

Click to expand...

Halrik was exaggerating about the horses getting stuck. They don't actually get stuck they would normal get pinned against the wall. I already have a solution to solve this though. The tournament scenes are the same as the Native scenes and can each be modified individually.

MorrisB said:

will be eventually sorted out. While they are in-game, though, these errors indeed ruin tournaments (and thus fun factor), regardless whether the player plays fair or cheats. As long as they are in that state, sometimes you have to resort to cheat to keep playing whether you like it or not.

Click to expand...

I disagree MB; if the player has to cheat in a situation it means that something has to be fixed, change, or improved. If they want to cheat, that's a different story. Halrik wants to cheat and I'm denying that option.

MorrisB said:

What concerns me more test-wise are the battle duels because these will be expanded and are subjects to later modification, hencheforth it is possible that testing will be constantly required as we update the feature. Now, in case we put in story-related boss fights with Governors/Kings/Androids/etc. who have 500 or so HP, testing may not be as quick as we'd like it to be...

Click to expand...

The battle dueling system isn't the type of feature that can get too buggy or need extensive testing. So far I hadn't had any complaints yet as far as that system goes. The only issues there can be are ones where the troops can't get out to the field quick enough because of the amount of troops on the field. That issue will be solved once formations are in.

MorrisB said:

Of course I may be overreacting, but I nevertheless think it would be reasonable to hold a voting concerning this feature. We had polls for Calradian factions, gunpowder weapons and such, why not have one for this ?

Click to expand...

Main reason I've done so was so I can receive better feedback from the community. The 2nd reason is because people kept saying tournaments were too easy, and this was said to me for just about every release how people would brag about how they used tournaments to amass insane amounts of money. The money itself will eventually be lowered also. The 3rd reason was to prevent some people from abusing the dueling system, on & off the battlefield. If a player duels enough it will bring out more than one benefit. The decision to add the anti-cheat system was mine alone after much thinking about the consequences for doing so. Just like how I came up with the companion bonus system if the player decides to deal with the companion personality clashes. I try to reward the player real benefits for not cheating, and not giving any special bonuses when he does.

I've took a great deal of time to make it, I'd appreciate it if more people would actually play the game and help me improve it from an outside looking in perspective. So when people go and get the best armor through a cheat list and speed kill many different troops I'd like to know the reason why they'd rather do so then actually take the time to play the game. There could easily be a huge oversight that some/few/many people may see that I don't; and since this mod is free and I have the ability to release a mod at any time, and update the game at will, why not find even more ways to make it better?

Edit:
Watch this video (related to the topic): Gameplay Video Part 2 by EVEMASTER99 (v3.92)

Fully support a cheat shutdown as they kill the spirit of challenge and getting creative with how to solve problems. Hell if anything I'm on the other side of the spectrum welcoming the possibility of Player death at any time -**** gets real memorable then.

MorrisB,

I'm seriously not in love with the idea of Androids in SoD, even if you call it SoD:Westworld, but I can forgive a lot as long as we all agree that SoD maintains zero tolerance for tentacles. You just attract the wrong crowd if you allow even a single tentacle in the game.

Five Hundred hit point boss challenges stinks too much of video games for my preference.  There is a solution in this game for most of the bad video game garbage, it's called pike formations backed with longbowmen.  Five minutes after the Evil Overlord (TM) Tentaculon (R) brings his bad self onto the battlefield, steady troops turn him into a cascading fountain of arterial bleeding because nobody serious agrees to a one-on-one fight with a monster.  Or you just lay siege to the Fortress of Infinite Dungeon Levels (C), and starve the boss monster out. Remember the essentials, always: http://eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html
#75. I will instruct my Legions of Terror to attack the hero en masse, instead of standing around waiting while members break off and attack one or two at a time.

Computica,
I do love what they did in SoD 5.0 with the mercenary guild challenges.  A simple change that would make most tourney's more interesting would be the addition of fences.  A bit of fencing changes the dynamic of the fight considerably.

Computica said:

Main reason I've done so was so I can receive better feedback from the community. The 2nd reason is because people kept saying tournaments were too easy, and this was said to me for just about every release how people would brag about how they used tournaments to amass insane amounts of money. The money itself will eventually be lowered also. The 3rd reason was to prevent some people from abusing the dueling system, on & off the battlefield. If a player duels enough it will bring out more than one benefit.

Click to expand...

TBH the tournament thing always annoyed me, because it seemed like I could play it about 10x easier if I could do that. Not like I could with the chars I run (INT-> CHA) anyway. Oh yeah and cause the peasants that like to staff-fight naked can do me in too. Funny how that annoys me, but I don't worry about getting relation up that way.

As for the battle duel, hmm i need to play more before I comment on that (my computer is dead now) but I do enjoy stabbing with a way-too-long lance.

Then I guess it's a bug that I can still use CTRL+H in a tournament if it's being held by a faction that I'm a vassal of?

Avakael said:

Then I guess it's a bug that I can still use CTRL+H in a tournament if it's being held by a faction that I'm a vassal of?

Click to expand...

Actually, after the fiftieth time you do that your character's head explodes.  Computica spent a lot of time getting the graphics just right on that. </bullmanure>

Seriously, it's probably a limitation of the logic and won't be fixed.  Another thing that won't be fixed is the way the odds get seriously better after you've lost a tourney, so you are much better off taking one for the team before winning.

It's a clever idea, but I'm a bit unsure whether or not it really makes that much difference...

The only effect this option has had on my gameplay is that I no longer win 100% of tournaments; sometimes you just get unlucky and now I have to live with that.

BTW, I was more or less astonished at how much money one can win at the tournaments.  I was going to comment that I thought it was a bit excessive.  Until I managed to spend the 300k Denars I saved up from tournament winnings on just a couple suits of armor for my companions and myself...

:p i had the same tought ironlion. The armor compensates the winnings you have in the tourneys

A lot of the time when I'm in the tournaments, it takes me 15 minutes or more because All my team-mates die and I have to kill like 3 to 6 guys by my self and I win, just fells like 20 to 30 minutes, I would usually use cheats at that point, I mean They have shields and I have a lance, couldn't you at least allow cheats if it takes forever to finish them?

Or at the very least give a sword if your stuck with a lance, i got a gripe with daggers too as bowman

But then again investing your money trough chancellor is a bit better for $$$ imo

How about for the tourney splash screen:

"The Proctor's crossbowmen look down on the tourney field with eager anticipation, searching for the slightest hint of dishonorable conduct.  A month's pay is offered for the first to strike down offenders in this drastically fair contest."

It's not a nerfing of the cheats in tourneys, it's a story element!

...and then I started running, lest the "It's a feature, not a bug" hammer should be directed at my person.

182 days old...
ah well... im bored and know of a "way" to spite computica (huzzah... not that anyone cares but w/e)
uh... there doesn't seem to be anything against going "god mode" and beating tourneys that way...
also I don't understand the whole "oh cheating is bad" mentality... I cheat because I find games to be a lot more fun by doing so... but w/e
(also I apologize for "topic necromancy"...)

Zretdrathcus said:

182 days old...
ah well... im bored and know of a "way" to spite computica (huzzah... not that anyone cares but w/e)
uh... there doesn't seem to be anything against going "god mode" and beating tourneys that way...
also I don't understand the whole "oh cheating is bad" mentality... I cheat because I find games to be a lot more fun by doing so... but w/e
(also I apologize for "topic necromancy"...)

Click to expand...

You need to learn to read. You just grave dug a thread from 2 years ago.

When I'm stuck with a lance or bow in a tournament, I just Shift + F4 and win. lol

Only little girls cheat.
So i guess its ok to be a gravedigging little girl, but can´t you do it on the hello kitty online forum?