NE Warband Hardcore challenge - get crushed oldschool style

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In celebration of NE Warband coming out, I'm going to start another of my extremely unpopular attempts at turning M&B into a roguelike, by making it frustratingly difficult (but also exponentially increasing the replay value of this awesome game). If anyone else has gotten bored with vanilla M&B or wants to try out something extremely challenging, please do some runs with me and see how you fare! In a nutshell: This is a play style adapted around Native Expansion/WB intended to make the game very difficult, very challenging and very rewarding.

Note: I am changing my copy of NE WB slightly by giving Scarred Bandits access to bows. I further will not allow myself to endlessly kite scores of enemies who have no ranged attack.

Here is the basic ruleset I'm using for my first attempt at NE Warband challenge. Anyone giving it a first try, I encourage you to try these rules:

Rule 1) Being taken prisoner ends your game. You have lost. Assume you were executed by your captors. (This includes sneaking into cities, breaking into prisons, etc.)
Rule 2) Once you have designated a capital city, losing your capital ends your game.
Rule 3) You may never recruit from territory you are not friendly with(+10 rep or better), nor may you purchase mercenaries.
Rule 4) You must choose between the Surgery skill or the Training skill; you may not have both, and you may not use companions with these skills (1-2 points doesn't matter. 3+ and you cant recruit them.)
Rule 5) Companions may not be given fiefs. Further, Lords are limited to 1 city or 2 castles each, plus any attached villages

To extend the fun and extend the pain even further, I'm adding an additional 5 rules onto myself to make it even more interesting:

Rule 6) I may never recruit from territories I do not own personally. I may recruit prisoners, rescued prisoners or from rescued garrisons. I call it my "peasant army".
Rule 7) I must hold a castle before the Dark Knight invasion. Further, on the day of the invasion, I must select one territory as my 'home'. If I ever lose this territory, I lose the game.
Rule :cool: My character must be a non-noble female (meaning I will not be given a fief if I swear vassalage)
Rule 9) I may never flee from any battle, even if given the choice. I stay until the last man falls. 'Leaving' an enemy that has not yet initiated a fight is fine. (offensive sieges are an exception; I may leave those)
Rule 10) I must limit my party composition to a maximum of 33% calvary and 5% companions (of maximum party size, not current party size).
ex: If my max party size is 100, I can have up to 33 mounted units. This means I must choose my calvary units carefully.

If you are a true masochist, here's an even further extended ruleset I intend to use in my next game. This is only for those who have absolutely nothing better to do and love getting their asses kicked:

Rule 11) The surgery skill is prohibited! You may, however, use the training skill.
Rule 12) You may have ONE non-noble, non-elite companion! This companion must not have Surgery. You may, however, recruit Lords to your side.
Rule 13) You may not ever swear vassalage, nor may you be a mercenary company. Further, once you are at war with a nation, you may never return to a state of peace.
Rule 14) You must own a castle or city by day 150 - and by day 250 you MUST own a city designated as your capital. If you lose this city, you lose the game.
Rule 15) You must have conquered another nation by day 365, and again the goal of world domination by day 500 stands.
Addendum: Due to the added savagery of rules 11-16, some perks are added:
* You may ONCE and ONLY once hire Mercenaries from a tavern. Choose wisely.
* You may have up to 50% of your maximum party size as Cavalry
* You may recruit one extra companion to serve as your minister, but you may not burn through companions just to gain right to rule.
* If you lose the castle or city you took by day 150, that is acceptable - you must merely own one on day 150. Day 250 is when it's 'now-or-never'.




The goal: World Domination by game day 500.


You might ask yourself what the point of these arbitrary restrictions is. Simple: To extend the sandbox gameplay elements even further, and stretch your playing skills to the limit. To stretch your creativity and see what sort of solutions you come up to the various problems you encounter as a result. Trust me, it can be a very rewarding way to play - and make you try skills/playstyles you never considered before. If you don't like it, no problem - it's a sandbox game, make of it what you will.
 
I can't start this in earnest right now, but I will be in the next week or so.  I'll probably ignore rule 4, because retraining lost units and so forth grinds down my psyche like a gravel crusher.  Beyond that, this sounds like a great way to christen my first run at NE for Warband.
 
I'm starting my first run now. I'm going to add a little icing to the cake: I've given bows/arrows to scarred/ruthless/mountain bandits and won't be allowing myself to hire the elite NPCs (Kelemvor, Alyssa, etc).

My initial plan is going to be finding a few companions as fast as possible, probably 3, preferably Deshavi, Klethi and Tismanu (as they all start out at very low level).  From there I'll do random lord quests (mostly "kill the murderer", deliver a message, etc - nothing combat heavy) or guild master/village quests that don't require combat until I have a few thousand denars. from there I'll go hit up tournaments all over the land until I have enough renown to enter castles without being invited. from there I plan to butter up monarchs as much as possible  by doing non-combat requests. probably until about 50 rep or so.

For combat, I'll be jumping in on larger lord party fights vs mountain bandits or jumping in to save scouting parties/patrols. Through this, I'm bound to getting some rescued prisoners (I'm not sure how the weighting is done, but I know that with even a party size of 1 you will be offered at least some of the rescued prisoners from a large fight). This is how I'll get my first few troops together. I'll keep pathfinding and surgery high so that I can outrun bandits while picking & choosing my fights.

I'll do that until I have at least 2-3 'friends', preferably influential lords, and am 'friends' with the monarch of a kingdom.  During this time, I'll be outfitting my NPCs as I can, and looking out for any really weak bandit parties I can take on that also have prisoners to help replenish my stock. Once I reach a critical mass of rescued prisoners, usually around 25-35, I'll be able to regularly take on small bandit parties. From there I'll grind those until I get my first handful of heavy cav (probably merc horsemen, merc captains, lordless knights, sword sisters, etc).  Once I have say ~8 heavy cav and at least 6 surgery, I'll start attacking merc war bands.

At least that's my plan so far. We'll see how it goes.

edit: Starting character is female, taking thief/street urchin/goods peddler/wanderlust. That lets me start off with 9/15/9/9 stats to start, so I can wear most armors, start with 5 riding (for tourneys and combat) 5 looting (so I don't go broke), 3 leadership and 3 persuasion (CHA will get no attention until I have 30 INT). I'm starting in swadia, as if I score a village in there it'll be able to produce most of what I need (decent archers, great cav, decent infantry).  GETTING that first village is going to be tough.

 
soulmata said:
I'm starting in swadia, as if I score a village in there it'll be able to produce most of what I need (decent archers, great cav, decent infantry).  GETTING that first village is going to be tough.

Don't forget the different tiers of troop trees in Warband, a village won't get you any cavalry at all, those are nobles only for Swadia, so you'll only have access to peasant troops through a village. Unless you're going for a Town from the very start? If not, pick a different faction. Rhodoks have excellent peasant troops (Elite Swordfighter/Halberdiers, Arbelestiers and Spear Knights).

Goodluck with this challenge!
 
DarkTemplar said:
hmm whats the difficulty %? if max what about battlesize?

Battlesize is 630, damage is normal (not 1/4 or 1/2), AI is good

I'm at work right now, but I think the difficulty reads around 167%

I had a few failed starts last night, but today I'll be starting my run after I adjusted my strategy. Getting an army without being able to recruit at all is definitely not easy. I'll be posting some SS tonight for sure.

 
Captain_Octavius said:
soulmata said:
I'm starting in swadia, as if I score a village in there it'll be able to produce most of what I need (decent archers, great cav, decent infantry).  GETTING that first village is going to be tough.

Don't forget the different tiers of troop trees in Warband, a village won't get you any cavalry at all, those are nobles only for Swadia, so you'll only have access to peasant troops through a village. Unless you're going for a Town from the very start? If not, pick a different faction. Rhodoks have excellent peasant troops (Elite Swordfighter/Halberdiers, Arbelestiers and Spear Knights).

Goodluck with this challenge!

Yeah, I forgot the swad peasant line doesn't produce cav.  Good thing to consider, thanks for that note.

In the early stages I'll be relying exclusively on rescuing peasant women, farmers and manhunters. peasant women get me to lady knights and merc scouts, farmers get me to lordless knights and manhunters get me to slave crushers. The latter I'm very interested in - it's a pity the manhunter line is so fragile at first, because having an army armed with primarily blunt weapons is very useful to sustaining a large income and keeping your supply of troops fresh.

I think I will be going for Rhodok or Vaegris. I've always been a fan of Arbelestiers <3
 
First 18 days are finished, and I'm off to an alright start. I  had great success at first, then hit a huge lull for about 12 game days. But things turned around. Chronicled thusly (and don't give me crap about my character name, I like to roleplay my guys):

Imenketa starts:
ik-start.jpg
Day 1: I get some tasks from swadian royalty and pick up Tismanu in Suno. I end up making it to Dhirim and have 2 quests to fulfill back at Suno.

Days 2-5: Back at Suno I get lucky, finding Basheteur (useful for now as a meat shield) and hire him. Only then do I realize there's a feast, but I've no money to bet on myself (plus I am level 2, and have no combat skills - literally 0 in powerstrike, ironflesh, etc). Still, I enter every tournament I can. I end up winning 4 of them and managed to place meager bets, ending with 88 renown and 4300 denars. Enough to get me started at least. I fight in the Arena long enough to ding to level 5, which lets me get to 4 pathfinding/spotting and 3 leadership. I buy horses for Tismanu and Basheteur then head to Rhodok territory hoping to hop in on some bandit fights.

Here's a video of me winning one of the tourneys at a mighty level 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gTr3UEBKSs
I make a few mistakes, but overall I felt good. Suno tournaments are generally pleasant, and only occasionally do you get ridiculous unfair fights.

Day 6-9 : I get the portrait quest from a chick in Yalen and head back to praven to cash in. I then go scrounging around for fights to jump in on. Disappointed I end up finding Deshavi at Veluca and I dump basheteur for her (I'm limited to 3 companions with my current max party size, my other companion is Erevan). I had no luck finding bandit parties to jump on, but I ended up winning the tourney at Curaw and netting 6500 denars from that. Because of that success I now had around 10k and decided it was time to jump on Tourneys. The arena master directed me to Wercheg or Tulga - Nord tournies are terrible so I headed for the steppes. That turned out to be a disaster and I lost 1500 denars. Pissed, I roamed the steppes wondering how I'm going to make my schedule - already a week in and not a single fight.

Day 9-16. Nothing. Frustrated, I wander for a week and a half unable to find bandit parties weak enough to attack and no fights to jump in on. Quests were also dry.

Day 17: I see several failed fights - where steppe bandits piled on top of caravans and never got support. But luck finally struck and I saw a goldmine. It was still a risk (kherg soldiers really are NOT effective vs steppe bandits). I hop in anyway, knowing I have to do something. I ride just as hard and proud as the khergs, and and up getting 4 kills during the fight - I definitely earned my keep, as the khergs got wasted. They were down to 20 soldiers by the end of the match, but we emerged victorious - and I found my starting army. Armed with some basic building blocks I went back to Swadia to start my conquering. Though sore about losing money at the tourney I stopped at Dhirim to equip my companions as best I could afford.

Finally finding the chance I need:
ik-luck1.jpg

Battered and bloody but I had to help, the fight was very close:
ik-luck2.jpg

I have my starting army! I can finally kick it in to high gear. I split for Dhirim to rest, equip my companions and head back to central Swadia.
ik-luck3.jpg
 
Captain_Octavius said:
soulmata said:
I'm starting in swadia, as if I score a village in there it'll be able to produce most of what I need (decent archers, great cav, decent infantry).  GETTING that first village is going to be tough.

Don't forget the different tiers of troop trees in Warband, a village won't get you any cavalry at all, those are nobles only for Swadia, so you'll only have access to peasant troops through a village. Unless you're going for a Town from the very start? If not, pick a different faction. Rhodoks have excellent peasant troops (Elite Swordfighter/Halberdiers, Arbelestiers and Spear Knights).

Goodluck with this challenge!


Don't elite swordfighters/halberdiers upgrade from swordfighters/halberdiers, which upgrade from captains? And arn't captains one of the elite troops for Rhodoks?

Also soulmata, I'm loving what you're doing here, makes it a really big challenge, I might try it out myself, except I'll be using my 'ultimate' character. A level 2 with all book stats at 10 using exporting and importing. That and 63 intel and 53 extra skill points from the intel gained...
 
Deathslayer said:
Don't elite swordfighters/halberdiers upgrade from swordfighters/halberdiers, which upgrade from captains? And arn't captains one of the elite troops for Rhodoks?

Quite, but they can also be trained from peasant troops (choose the spearmen line, after Master Spearmen you can upgrade to Captains). It's the speciality of the Rhodoks, being a "rebel/commoners" faction and all that. Elite Arbelestiers are special building only though, you can't upgrade Arbelestiers to Elite.
 
Oh? I never realised that, I was always one of those "death to the rhodoks!" sorta guy. And also "screw these 300 arablests. rage quit!" sorta guy.....

Soulmata, just watched the youtube video of the tourny, in description saying it was close? Hell, I don't think you even got hit lol....but if I may say, you need a little work on the sword with horse...or was that just a bad time?
 
Deathslayer said:
Oh? I never realised that, I was always one of those "death to the rhodoks!" sorta guy. And also "screw these 300 arablests. rage quit!" sorta guy.....

Soulmata, just watched the youtube video of the tourny, in description saying it was close? Hell, I don't think you even got hit lol....but if I may say, you need a little work on the sword with horse...or was that just a bad time?
He did a good job on the lance though, He's probably more lance based (like me) and takes sword fights to the ground :wink:
 
Yeah I could see he was more of a lancer guy, I prefer swords, and using the "let everybody chase you, while you're walking backwards and swinging your sword at insanely high speed and killing a guy with every single strike and not getting hit at all" strategy. It seems to work for me =D

Until 50 horsemen charge and knock you down that is...
But hey, what are troops for right? Distractions and meatshields obviously...
In one epic battle, there were a few enemeis left, and a few of my guys left. My horse is gone, and I'm about to get owned by a swadian blademaster. Then a roaming horse comes along, knocks him down, allowing me to keep him down for good, and I ended up winning the battle, with no soldiers left.

Also, on an unrelated side note, I once jumped with my horse and landed on top of a tree. Yay me.
 
Deathslayer said:
Soulmata, just watched the youtube video of the tourny, in description saying it was close?


Maybe you are used to playing with a character that has a million in every stat, but generally speaking for me, getting hit a single time in a tourney has about a 75% chance of instant death (44hp). So even when I get swung at I'm like "OH MY GOD NO".

And yeah Carnivorious, I don't generally like using swords or bows. I'm much more comfortable with a polearm or a throwing weapon. I've got great aim and I'm great at mounted combat. On foot I am alright IF I have a nice missile weapon. I'm not so good in HTH combat.
 
soulmata said:
And yeah Carnivorious, I don't generally like using swords or bows. I'm much more comfortable with a polearm or a throwing weapon. I've got great aim and I'm great at mounted combat. On foot I am alright IF I have a nice missile weapon. I'm not so good in HTH combat.

Well not completely like me... I use Polearm when mounted and Shield+Sword when on foot.
 
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