OUTLAWS - who are you?

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NOVICIUS

Master Knight
I have a plan to remove training station for Outlaws in my map and go back to original concept which is not used recently. However I like to make sure first that I do understand who Outlaws are on what is their mission in the game.

I shell start from what I think I know:

Outlaws as a Warband - Group of people which get together to survive outside of medieval society. They would try to find some wilderness far away from any town or castle. They could choose mountain passages or forests next to main routs to attack and rob travelers. In time of war they would just be on the move from village to village robbing peasants. This group would be formed from any kind of people: wanted man,deserter,serf who run away from his village etc. This group can evolve to the mercenary company or take part in peasant revolt

Outlaws as Criminals - This would be also a group however it would be based in big town usually with harbour. They would use big population as cover. In port towns people coming and going. It is harder to know who is who. The members of this group would mainly steal but they would also try to dominate areas to eliminate competition. How strange this sound: they would have semiofficial Thief Guild. They would try to corrupt officials usually with success. They would control "legal" business like brothel or tavern (the same thing really) where they could sell what they stole. From this group pirates would recruit crew to their ships.

Outlaws as Sociopaths - this could be a guy who try to rob people in daytime, in the middle of the town or village. The mob would eat him alive or for fun give him to authorities to watch how he die publicly as a part of Local Fair...

I guess you know what I am about by now... :wink:

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Outlaw RP and "randoming"

If somebody would come to you and said "I do not like your face" and then attack you, you would call him randomer. Right?
If somebody would come to you and said "(does not matter what)" and then attack you, you would call him randomer.Right?
If "outlaw" come to me and say "give me 500 or die", and then attack me, I think about him: randomer

1.Robber would ask about anything not about 500. "Give me your purse" for example.
2.Robber would not add "..or I kill you" he would point his weapon at you
3.Robber WOULD NOT BE ALONE...He would trapped you WHILE YOU ALONE.

I believe it does no matter anyway. "Outlaw" as most of randomers want to take your money NOT RP WITH YOU. He is more than happy to kill you if you refuse as he probably will get more money of you. Because of that you really do not have time to RP this situation. Before you say something you die....

Conclusion: "Outlaw RP" have nothing to do with RP. It is other form of randomly targeting other player and very one sided way to have fun. [the best part:this randomers belive that castle wars destroying game] 

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Outlaws as a Faction

It is amazing that nobody tried to unite Outlaws, become Robin Hood or Ali Baba, create Fiefs Guild or organise outlaws in any other way. I see three main reasons:

1. Most of Outlaws do not RP and just random so it is hard to rely on them and take responsibility for their actions
2. Nobody is brave enough to take responsibility for Outlaws (there is no way you can be officially leader of it as well as there is no way to kick somebody out of it)
3. There is big risk that some faction would declare war on Outlaw faction

I believe that organising Outlaws as semi-faction=Guild would improve outlaw RP and give them some base to build on. [like laws of Outlaws]
-----------------------------------------

As things are at the moment the only way I see to have training station for Outlaw is to recognise them as faction/guild. In other way it would be just giving some randomers nice place to hide.

I have not played as outlaw. I probably do not know much about it. Give me your opinions, but try to be as much as possible honest and objective
 
I tried being an outlaw yesterday, I hung around a lonely stretch of road and said "stand and deliver your money or you life!" at some poor commoner he ran away so I thought "right kill him " started to chase him but then the fella stated in world chat that I was trying to random him so I stopped. Should I have killed him? I was rping but seeing what certain admins are like I didnt want to get banned.
But later on the server had 26 outlaws all organised riding around in a big group so I hid :grin:
 
NOVICIUS said:
I have a plan to remove training station for Outlaws in my map and go back to original concept which is not used recently. However I like to make sure first that I do understand who Outlaws are on what is their mission in the game.

I shell start from what I think I know:

Outlaws as a Warband - Group of people which get together to survive outside of medieval society. They would try to find some wilderness far away from any town or castle. They could choose mountain passages or forests next to main routs to attack and rob travelers. In time of war they would just be on the move from village to village robbing peasants. This group would be formed from any kind of people: wanted man,deserter,serf who run away from his village etc. This group can evolve to the mercenary company or take part in peasant revolt

Outlaws as Criminals - This would be also a group however it would be based in big town usually with harbour. They would use big population as cover. In port towns people coming and going. It is harder to know who is who. The members of this group would mainly steal but they would also try to dominate areas to eliminate competition. How strange this sound: they would have semiofficial Thief Guild. They would try to corrupt officials usually with success. They would control "legal" business like brothel or tavern (the same thing really) where they could sell what they stole. From this group pirates would recruit crew to their ships.

Outlaws as Sociopaths - this could be a guy who try to rob people in daytime, in the middle of the town or village. The mob would eat him alive or for fun give him to authorities to watch how he die publicly as a part of Local Fair...

I guess you know what I am about by now... :wink:

------------------------------------------

Outlaw RP and "randoming"

If somebody would come to you and said "I do not like your face" and then attack you, you would call him randomer. Right?
If somebody would come to you and said "(does not matter what)" and then attack you, you would call him randomer.Right?
If "outlaw" come to me and say "give me 500 or die", and then attack me, I think about him: randomer

1.Robber would ask about anything not about 500. "Give me your purse" for example.
2.Robber would not add "..or I kill you" he would point his weapon at you
3.Robber WOULD NOT BE ALONE...He would trapped you WHILE YOU ALONE.

I believe it does no matter anyway. "Outlaw" as most of randomers want to take your money NOT RP WITH YOU. He is more than happy to kill you if you refuse as he probably will get more money of you. Because of that you really do not have time to RP this situation. Before you say something you die....

Conclusion: "Outlaw RP" have nothing to do with RP. It is other form of randomly targeting other player and very one sided way to have fun. [the best part:this randomers belive that castle wars destroying game] 

------------------------------------------------

Outlaws as a Faction

It is amazing that nobody tried to unite Outlaws, become Robin Hood or Ali Baba, create Fiefs Guild or organise outlaws in any other way. I see three main reasons:

1. Most of Outlaws do not RP and just random so it is hard to rely on them and take responsibility for their actions
2. Nobody is brave enough to take responsibility for Outlaws (there is no way you can be officially leader of it as well as there is no way to kick somebody out of it)
3. There is big risk that some faction would declare war on Outlaw faction

I believe that organising Outlaws as semi-faction=Guild would improve outlaw RP and give them some base to build on. [like laws of Outlaws]
-----------------------------------------

As things are at the moment the only way I see to have training station for Outlaw is to recognise them as faction/guild. In other way it would be just giving some randomers nice place to hide.

I have not played as outlaw. I probably do not know much about it. Give me your opinions, but try to be as much as possible honest and objective
Me and a few of the guys from the TB did a robin hood sort of thingand then went bad and decided to do the this is our bridge, and then went pirating all the while doing rp. So not all outlaws are randoming.
 
I'd recommend you to rob RP-ers only since they know how to act in such situations. You can also try to request money for your wife/kids/food or foundations.
 
NOVICIUS said:
brothel or tavern (the same thing really)


A tavern is the Medieval equivalent of a motel, complete with a full bar and eatery, a dining hall and beddings.
A brothel is, and always has been another word for a house of prostitution. Kind of different.
...And NOVICUS, for the last time I will remind you that RP and Continuity on PWMod are imperfect due to a strong rule base.
We cannot RP properly due to this open community getting its fair share of trolls.
 
Whalen207 said:
NOVICIUS said:
brothel or tavern (the same thing really)


A tavern is the Medieval equivalent of a motel, complete with a full bar and eatery, a dining hall and beddings.
A brothel is, and always has been another word for a house of prostitution. Kind of different.

so naive.. I let you live in world of fairy tales :roll:

...And NOVICUS, for the last time [and when I cross my limits what you will do then ?..so dramatic :lol:] I will remind you that RP and Continuity on PWMod are imperfect due to a strong rule base.
We cannot RP properly due to this open community getting its fair share of trolls.

This is negative approach. Positive one is  that YES we can do something to educate and improve "trolls" (with all respect).
 
Sir Gwain said:
I tried being an outlaw yesterday, I hung around a lonely stretch of road and said "stand and deliver your money or you life!" at some poor commoner he ran away so I thought "right kill him " started to chase him but then the fella stated in world chat that I was trying to random him so I stopped. Should I have killed him? I was rping but seeing what certain admins are like I didnt want to get banned.
But later on the server had 26 outlaws all organised riding around in a big group so I hid :grin:

WRONG
RIGHT

In my opinion. You asked ridicules question end he was right to run away from you. You could kill him..and for what? Punishment of some sort? You attempt to rob somebody failed. This is it. Admin would be right to kick you if you would fallow this path. THIS IS ONLY MY OPINION (btw)

I have done better I believe: I was asked to drop 500( I had only 360 and I told them I am poor serf but they insisted) or die in the middle of town (today). I start to shout ROBBERY!!!!! HELP!!!
Some faction member get involved. I just run away from situation ..
 
NOVICIUS said:
Sir Gwain said:
I tried being an outlaw yesterday, I hung around a lonely stretch of road and said "stand and deliver your money or you life!" at some poor commoner he ran away so I thought "right kill him " started to chase him but then the fella stated in world chat that I was trying to random him so I stopped. Should I have killed him? I was rping but seeing what certain admins are like I didnt want to get banned.
But later on the server had 26 outlaws all organised riding around in a big group so I hid :grin:

WRONG
RIGHT

In my opinion. You asked ridicules question end he was right to run away from you. You could kill him..and for what? Punishment of some sort? You attempt to rob somebody failed. This is it. Admin would be right to kick you if you would fallow this path. THIS IS ONLY MY OPINION (btw)

I have done better I believe: I was asked to drop 500( I had only 360 and I told them I am poor serf but they insisted) or die in the middle of town (today). I start to shout ROBBERY!!!!! HELP!!!
Some faction member get involved. I just run away from situation ..

I respect your opinion most of the time but in this aspect it is ridiculous.  If someone who is bigger stronger and more dangerous than you demands something simply survival instincts demand that you listen to what they say.  If there is a place where a bandit can rob someone and nobody is stopping it, than it makes perfect sense that it would happen.  Why would you want rules to prevent that?  Instead of making rules to prevent all these encounters, maybe people need to start running around in groups of people for safety.

You can't really expect to run around by yourself on secluded streets or in the middle of a lonely road without any sort of way to protect yourself or get away and be safe.  That notion is just ridiculously absurd to me.  If you choose to run around on foot as a serf and by yourself be prepared to talk your way out of robberies or run away or fight.  People are lucky that it's not a real life situation, I guarantee the robber would be more likely to kill you in the middle ages if you're on a secluded road.  Otherwise when you get to town you're going to report bandits on the roads robbing people...whereas if they kill you, you just don't show up to your destination and it can be assumed any number of things happened to you (or you may not be missed at all).
 
For me it is quite simple:

Only serfs who run around by them selves are players who just start the game (spawn). Asking this guys for money is ridicules as they do not have any just yet. All other serfs working for faction in castles. What you really doing is spawnkilling under cover of poor,negative and one sided RP(?). Player who is new to the mod would probably rage quit with bad opinion about players in general.

Outlaws had perfect sense in previous mod where you could find Traders and Town Watch and, most importantly, trade routs.

Originally being Outlaw in v4 is form of punishment for team killing, however server owners and mapmakers twisted and change it to what we have now. What I am trying to understand is the corrent purpose of having Outlaws in game. Only one I see at the moment is to annoy other players who try to achieve something constructive and positive.

It is not all players fault. It is down to mapmakers and server holders to figure it out how to make some sense of Outlaws. Some servers fallow KoS which is not the best solution, Other complicated things with attempt to have some RPing Outlaws. The main thing missing is trade and proper big Town in which Outlaw RP would have more sense.
 
i RPed an peasent hunter whit warbow. as i roleplayed my self i shot an ground *cut animal troath*
after that i selled it for 10 denari!!! good roleplay. even when i was on my own i still types *take rabbit from ground* *puts rabbit away*
its major fun.
 
Rojen said:
With the outlaw bands, i've seen optimal a few times with 4 or 5 other outlaws, robbing everyone (including knights)

Well 4 or 5 people heavily armed in a group seems like they would be outnumbering 1 knight.  Not hard to imagine the knight being susceptible to being robbed.
 
Swadian Man at Arms said:
There are too many Outlaw restrictions. On NA for example, they aren't allowed to raid. But if organised well it may result in a nice RP.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. Outlaws need a way to make money, otherwise there really is no point to being a outlaw (either you're keeping it or making yourself Robin Hood with it). Currently, the only real way to do so (at least on the NA server) is to find creative ways to say "500 or die" to various poor commoners. The ban on raiding makes some sense, seeing as many outlaws can't really RP (though this is in part caused by the aforementioned "500 or die" problem), but outlaws really need some other way to make money.
 
Or you simply collect sticks

It gives you even more money than robbing people

And it doesn't even make you an *beep*, like the alternative
 
Swadian Man at Arms said:
There are too many Outlaw restrictions. On NA for example, they aren't allowed to raid. But if organised well it may result in a nice RP.

These restrictions come due to all the bawwing, drama and accusations of randoming Outlaws create.
I usually spend half my time on the server dealing with Outlaw x Commoner arguments.
 
Originally being Outlaw in v4 is form of punishment for team killing, however server owners and mapmakers twisted and change it to what we have now. What I am trying to understand is the corrent purpose of having Outlaws in game. Only one I see at the moment is to annoy other players who try to achieve something constructive and positive.

+100

Actually i don't think we need them but still they got spawncamp, sell point and base camp on everymap so ...

These restrictions come due to all the bawwing, drama and accusations of randoming Outlaws create.
I usually spend half my time on the server dealing with Outlaw x Commoner arguments.

I had admin during 6 hours yestarday in IV_EU_RP.
half of the time there was probleme with ... guess what... Outlaw RDMing.

Actually i got a way to calm them down.

Let pretend outlaw are like ... invaders, if you know game of throne, we can put them and their spawn in the north steeps protected by a faction castle, and so as long the castle hold, outlaw are outside the good folk area.

Good idea ? We need a mapper to do this.


But yes, most of time Outlaw are people who want to be "rebelle" and do bad things while protected by the anti-RDM rules.

Still being a outlaw is like having a "IAMEVIL" banner on you. While i play as  corrupted TW, or bad mercenary, i play soldier in commoner, i don't need to RDM to have my money.

I would be for either a real faction with a leader and stuff as outlaw ( with vote and kick process ) or remove them completly.
 
That_one_guy said:
Swadian Man at Arms said:
There are too many Outlaw restrictions. On NA for example, they aren't allowed to raid. But if organised well it may result in a nice RP.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. Outlaws need a way to make money, otherwise there really is no point to being a outlaw (either you're keeping it or making yourself Robin Hood with it). Currently, the only real way to do so (at least on the NA server) is to find creative ways to say "500 or die" to various poor commoners. The ban on raiding makes some sense, seeing as many outlaws can't really RP (though this is in part caused by the aforementioned "500 or die" problem), but outlaws really need some other way to make money.

This is interesting part. Why Outlaws have to make money? If you play as soldier you do not make any money. You just play as soldier. Outlaws are soldier class and because of that they do not make money.

If we see them as soldiers then the best way to use them is mercenary. We can see faction lord to employ them for some particular task:
- assassination of enemy lord
- ride on enemy castle (as single attack with exact purpose and run away not like occupying and constant killing habitans) to:
  - kill all horses
  - rob the chest
  - steal the ship
- massangers
- ... use you imagination.

Outlaws Mercenary can not take part in battle because it would cause confusion who is who
Outlaw Mercenary can fight with others Outlaws Mercenaries.

For this purpose we need Outlaw Tavern where all this assignment can be made (and only there)

Aldric said:
something constructive and positive.

Let pretend outlaw are like ... invaders, if you know game of throne, we can put them and their spawn in the north steeps protected by a faction castle, and so as long the castle hold, outlaw are outside the good folk area.

Good idea ? We need a mapper to do this.

I always have been thinking about No-go-outlaw-land-with no-rules-in-in-it but is hard to do. However I will try to make bandit territory restricted by faction castles. After all I try to find some perpose for castles locations and this is good one...
 
I'd say most effective is slaving people, then either selling them or asking them to buy their freedom and there is limit on slaving so ask as much as you want (being reasonable of course, as the rules state "A lord might ransom for 50,000 but a serf will not.")
 
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