Polished Native Troops 1.0 - For Diplomacy 3.3.2 or Native 1.134

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The name says it all: This mod polishes the Native troops. It doesn't add any new troops nor does it change the way a faction plays. You are still playing with Native troops, but with some badly needed changes and fixes that make sense. No items are edited by this mod, just troop stats and inventories.

The goal of this mod is to fix troop-tier inconsistencies and lore inconsistencies, while taking great care for balance. No troops are made under- or overpowered.

Download here

That file contains both the mod for Native and for Diplomacy. It's compatible with the PPOD merge and any other mod that doesn't change the troop trees. To install, just copy the troops.txt found in the correct folder to your module folder and overwrite. It's always smart to make a backup of your original troops.txt. This mod is not savegame compatible. Inventory changes will take effect, but the stat changes will require a new game.


Features
First of all: Any suggestions are most welcome, but keep in mind the goal of this mod. No major changes that are just for personal preference. It's about polishing and fixing, not overhauling.

Version 1.0 only polishes/fixes archers. An overall change is that the highest two tiers of all dedicated foot archers now have two quivers of arrows rather than one. They won't run out of ammo as quickly anymore, which makes them more viable in field battles. It accentuates the difference between crossbowmen and archers; crossbowmen get shields, archers get more ammo. This change may not sound very special, but it greatly changes the way a smart commander employs archers in battle.

You'll find that if your favourite faction has archers, you won't go looking at other faction's archers anymore. All of them are useful yet different. They all fill a specific role that fits the faction's other troops.

More detailed changes per faction:


Vaegir
  • Highest ranged damage of all
  • Very accurate
  • Good rate of fire
  • Twohanded melee weapon (axes, voulges)
  • Quite low melee proficiencies
  • Bad armour

According to the lore the Vaegirs are the best archers in Calradia, but in Native none in his right mind goes to the Vaegirs for archers. That has changed now. The Vaegir Skirmishers and Vaegir Archers got major stat boosts, as they were utterly useless and underpowered compared to other faction's archers. Marksmen got slightly buffed with an extra point on Power Draw, making them hardest hitting archers in the game. They do bad in the other areas though, hence they are the most "dedicated", or "purest" of all archers. This is acceptable since the Vaegir employ both infantry and cavalry capable of protecting them from melee fights.


Sarranid
  • Fastest rate of fire
  • Very accurate
  • Moderate ranged damage
  • High melee proficiencies
  • Moderate armour
  • Onehanded melee weapons (swords)

Not much changed for the Sarannids. The highest two tiers don't screw around with jarids and javelins anymore, and have become dedicated archers instead. They are fastest in both ranged and melee, but also less damaging per arrow and their onehanded swords are less dangerous to hostile mid- and high-tier troops than the twohanded weapons of other faction's archers. The Sarannid Archer received some minor stat increases. In the vast open deserts their fast rate of fire is quite important, as the enemy has enough space to charge their army head on.


Nords
  • Best armoured archers
  • Very good ranged damage
  • Two handed melee weapons (axes)
  • Moderate accuracy
  • Moderate melee proficiencies
  • Moderate rate of fire

The combination of good armour and twohanded axes makes them the most capable in melee of all archers. The Nord Archer received a Longbow and an extra Power Draw point in exchange for less proficiency. This makes them damaging but a little slow and quite inaccurate. The Nord Veteran Archer is quite a bit more accurate though, and with it's mail armour and a new chance on a Nasal Helmet a hybrid infantry/archer. This is necessary since the Nords lack cavalry to rush to their aid should they find themselves in melee combat.


Khergits
I barely touched the Khergits for now. The Khergit Horse Archer received an extra Power Draw and Horse Archery point to make them less useless. I didn't gave Khergits the double bag of arrows, since their rate of fire is a lot slower due to them being mounted, and both their spears and one handed weapons are useful to them. Tips and comments from experienced Khergit players are more than welcome!
 
spear+shield=worst outfit for archers. If you want to keep the shields, just give maces to Khergits. This way they can actually do something despite the lack of melee skills.
 
Ludial said:
spear+shield=worst outfit for archers. If you want to keep the shields, just give maces to Khergits. This way they can actually do something despite the lack of melee skills.

Now you mention it, those pesky Khergit archers with their little spears indeed never seem to scratch me, they're too short for couching effectively as well. Noted that down, I'll remove their spears and give them maces only. Not sure about the shield, it's either that or a second quiver. What do you think?
 
Captain_Octavius said:
Ludial said:
spear+shield=worst outfit for archers. If you want to keep the shields, just give maces to Khergits. This way they can actually do something despite the lack of melee skills.

Now you mention it, those pesky Khergit archers with their little spears indeed never seem to scratch me, they're too short for couching effectively as well. Noted that down, I'll remove their spears and give them maces only. Not sure about the shield, it's either that or a second quiver. What do you think?
well, I already told you I'm giving them 2h sabers in my mod. But if you want to keep the shields and Khergits feel(those round shields are so Mongol they're pretty much as symbolic to the Khergits as their compound bows and their sabers), give them maces and sabers. Although one of the best known depictions of Mongol horse archers shows them with just sabers and no shields, it kinda doesn't fit to leave only the lancers with shields.

I think that the most balanced thing would be to give sabers, maces and shields to skirmishers and horsemen (not dedicated missile troops but militia) and maces to (vet) horse archers (plus extra ammo for them).

Edit:
oh, and give some horses to their tribesmen. I don't know what the devs were thinking when leaving a dismounted unit in the Khergit troop tree.
 
Awesome, it changes pretty much all the flaws of troops into something you'll love. This really is a must have for dedicated single player people
 
Weird thing is, I've been testing my mod tonight (so far the only complete troop trees besides bandits and neutrals are Swadians and Vaegirs), and the balance between factions doesn't seem to have changed at all, even if the way the fighting proceeds has. Vaegir infantry still sucks compared to the Swads. And Vaegir cav still trumps the Swadian one. well, I guess that's for the better

Ultimately it seems to me that the only things that really count besides numbers and mobility are range and power. Which is why troops with shorter weapons normally lose to troops with longer weapons given that all other conditions are equal. And why missile troops are so important.

So yeah, if you're going to give hand weapons to horse archers, give them shields as well. helps in close combat (I've seen Ymira at lvl 1 take out a tier 4 footman with just a flanged mace and a shield). and if you give them extra ammo, make sure their weapons are longer.
 
No, your mod adds new troops and changes a lot more. I know there are many people out there that want to play as Native as possible. This mod changes only what is really necessary and doesn't implement new troops nor changes names. This mod only fixes inconsistencies, it's still quite Native.

So yeah, it's quite different in what it does not (what you call "unfinished"). It fills a need that I myself had and couldn't find a solution for. I don't want new troops, or a shift in balance, or even a slight change in a faction's character in my game, I just want Native without the stuff that is wrong.
 
Yes I enjoy staying native, but floris mod, diplomacy and stuff like that are always welcomed into my arsenal too
 
Yeah I was mainly talking about troops here.

I always use Diplomacy, but Floris changes too much for my tastes in terms of gameplay. Diplomacy really only adds things that should be in Native in the first place. This mod only fixes things that should have been done in Native in the first place. PPOD also adds features that should be in Native. Other than that I only use graphical mods like Polished landscapes.

In short, I try to aim to make my game what Native would have been if Taleworlds had continued to develop it a few months longer.
 
Captain_Octavius said:
Yeah I was mainly talking about troops here.

I always use Diplomacy, but Floris changes too much for my tastes in terms of gameplay. Diplomacy really only adds things that should be in Native in the first place. This mod only fixes things that should have been done in Native in the first place. PPOD also adds features that should be in Native. Other than that I only use graphical mods like Polished landscapes.

In short, I try to aim to make my game what Native would have been if Taleworlds had continued to develop it a few months longer.

I totally agree with you :smile: I like the floris changes too, just like a new style, but i still prefer the good old dip-ppod and urs mods :grin:
 
Egyptian said:
So true but you know how impatient taleworlds has to be, I wouldnt have minded waiting longer for WFaS
as far as I'm aware, it wasn't TW that developed WFAS. the studio that works on it is I think Sich.
 
This is a step in the right direction.  When can we expect all the other classes to be balanced? 
 
Ludial said:
well, I already told you I'm giving them 2h sabers in my mod. But if you want to keep the shields and Khergits feel(those round shields are so Mongol they're pretty much as symbolic to the Khergits as their compound bows and their sabers), give them maces and sabers. Although one of the best known depictions of Mongol horse archers shows them with just sabers and no shields, it kinda doesn't fit to leave only the lancers with shields.

I think that the most balanced thing would be to give sabers, maces and shields to skirmishers and horsemen (not dedicated missile troops but militia) and maces to (vet) horse archers (plus extra ammo for them).

I'm curious, why maces rather than sabers for the horse archers?
 
it's good to see someone making a mod that specializes troops and doesnt unbalance the game
i've often cursed the vaegirs, they should be so good, while actually they kinda blow..

The horse archer shield thing,
Shields make them more usefull during castle sieges, while more arrows make them more usefull on the field.
Take the shield from the archers, and give them more arrows is what i'd say. charging a castle with horse archers doesnt make much sense to me anyway (Mercenaries &huscarls ftw!!!)

Mongol weapons,
The strong used a heavy 2h mace.
The rich used a heavy 2h sabre
The weak used a 1h sabre/shield

It was an honour to use a mace and 2h sabre, so they did. mostly the choice between 2h sabre and mace was money, so i'd say give horse archer a mace and vet horse archer a sabre to represent this.

The horsemen i'd give a shield and 1h sabre, they aint that good and they aint that rich, so they should not have the elite's weapons. a spear is useless, either give em a lance or no polearm at all.
Polearms (except for lance) are more an infantry weapon anyway.

A good edit on the lore of the game is to make rhodocs use their spears. i've hardly ever seen them use spears at all.
 
Octavius, I have a suggestion.

Infantry in the game for all factions excepting the infantry factions are found to be useless in native.
I have a solution.
All throughout history, infantry were generally used as meatbags, walls of defensive manpower, and/or cheap & easy to maintain troops.


They do not fill this role in Mount & Blade, where quantity seems to fail against quality.
I suggest this: Lower the levels of all infantry units to a point where their shortcomings are balanced with the ability to train them to a satisfactory level in a short amount of time compared to cavalry or archers, and with cost-effectiveness.
Examples are Swadian, Sarranid, and Vaegir elite infantry. It is simply better to get the cavalry, full-stop, as it is now.
Make infantry the fast-to-build army that you can get and maintain in a pinch, with that moderate effectiveness that is enough to see you through tough times so you can build or rebuild a cavalry/archer army.
 
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