The new Subversion.

@ Oarsman: What mod is your avatar from???

Also, what is the last subversion that does still have native style recruitment? Edit: People who do not want to play lance can always revert to whatever subversion that is.

It's from c-rpg

Oarsman said:

Spitfire84 said:

Well then this might not be the mod for you. Maybe you should try something that isn't historically based and doesn't have a realistic fighting style.
The mod is what it is and Othr isn't going to change it just cuz you and others don't like the way it plays.

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The thing I like the most about the mod is that it is historically based and I just wanted to throw in my personnal opinion.
I do understand that Othr is not changing the entire system because of two guys complaining about it  but it would be really awsome( if it was not too much work) to give the players option to choose between both systems

And PS

Spoiler

Spitfire and and Leonidas though this is the internet  being nice and not instantly aggressive towards somone who just stats his personal opinion would be nice
tl;dr
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnQ-5uFuDtc

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That is the problem, everyone thinks that their opinion counts and that it actually holds some validity to it when the only opinion that counts is Othrs (Kuauik & DrThomas too, even though they stopped), so stop giving your 2 cents and just play the game and adapt to its new features. "If it's not to much work?", that is why Othr removed the Native Recruitment in the first place is because it was to much work for him to keep up when the Developers wanted people to play with Lance from the Very beginning of this mod in the first place. The combat, do you really expect him to change it or create a separate option for players like you, since he just worked so hard to implicate the injury feature and combat aspects into this mod? And as far as you liking the historical aspect of it, do you really think that your character then by himself in whatever armor you use can stop 25 angry people even if they have knifes and what not by yourself. Historically you would get your ass handed to you even if you killed lets say 5 of them; that is what this mod's fighting is trying to portray, strength in numbers.

Fritz: I can agree with the guys who are "against" the damage system. I can't hit a low level- poorly geared guy more than 40-50-60 with my two handed axe,or with my lance BUT I receive a 150-200 damage from a POORLY geared horseman. (I have the most expensive and best armour(80 body for example),weapons ) So it is quite a frustrating contrast. Of course I am a big fan of this mod,this is why I am on this forum and writing. And for example the javelin damage is quite ridiculous too. I throw a 51 dmg Javelin into a peasant head and it said he received 10-20-30 damage and still fighting around. So Javelins are very very low damage weapons in this rev. I discovered that fighting with a lance is a fool thing to do because of the durability of this type of weapon. No matter how expensive is your lance you can just kill 1-2 men with it and after it will break like glass.


By the way the injury system is one of the cause that I'm playing this mod. It makes the game far more realistic. And it's better now that you can't kill 50 men singlehadedly,without help, in a shiny armor. So it's far better. It's quite realistic. Just need a little balance in some weapons damage.

I think that some of you didnt't understand the aim of this mod, you as player are like other characters, you are not a special one in the game, killing 3 enemies is a super achievment, it must be hard to kill 3 enemies, this isnt native where you can kill a full army using just a horse and a lance, a lance has a durability, that means that if you hit it against someone with a speed of 50km/h it will break for sure. THE AIM OF THIS MOD IS THE REALISM IN ALL ASPECTS AND FACTORS OF MEDIEVAL LIFE SIMULATION! If you want an arcade game mode then play native or other mods.

Yeah on second thought the lance thing is quite logical. But the best (51 dmg ) javelin to a peasant head thing ? That's even arcadier than native if you brought up arcade games. So it's quite strange. I hope it will be balanced 'cause I saw that they modified it in one of the latest revs.

Spitfire84 said:

As far as the combat, do you really expect him to change it or create a separate option for players like you, since he just worked so hard to implicate the injury feature and combat aspects into this mod? And as far as you liking the historical aspect of it, do you really think that your character in whatever armor you use can stop 25 angry people even if they have knifes and what not by yourself. Historically you would get your ass handed to you even if you killed lets say 5 of them; strength in numbers.

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I have no problem beeing killed by a group of 25 peasants that was my on fault/stupidity to get surrounded by them. But being killed by some robber who is isolated from the enemies main group with a javlin not only once but several times and on the other hand dealing myself only low damage is a bit frustrating.
And I have no problem with the injury feature or that lances break and so on, but dealing some more damage myself and getting a bit less from some low level enemy is the only thing i want 

Spitfire84 said:

so stop giving your 2 cents

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You do really have a problem with an opinion that differs from yours 

Condar said:

Yeah on second thought the lance thing is quite logical. But the best (51 dmg ) javelin to a peasant head thing ? That's even arcadier than native if you brought up arcade games. So it's quite strange. I hope it will be balanced 'cause I saw that they modified it in one of the latest revs.

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If you dont have a minimum proper amount of power throw you wont kill a single peasant even with 5 javelins in his head, you need at least 1 power throw to be able to hit the enemy properly.

Man do you realise that the BEST  (51 damage ) Javelin requires at least Power Throw Level 2-3 (?)  ? So I obviously have more than one... But that's not the case.


The problem is that both of you think that we are trolls and we don't respect the work of the developers,modders. The thing is that the respect is why we are here. Because we take care of the mod by writing these things. Or at least we think we are. So please change your attitude. Thank's.

Oarsman said:

Spitfire84 said:

As far as the combat, do you really expect him to change it or create a separate option for players like you, since he just worked so hard to implicate the injury feature and combat aspects into this mod? And as far as you liking the historical aspect of it, do you really think that your character in whatever armor you use can stop 25 angry people even if they have knifes and what not by yourself. Historically you would get your ass handed to you even if you killed lets say 5 of them; strength in numbers.

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I have no problem beeing killed by a group of 25 peasants that was my on fault/stupidity to get surrounded by them. But being killed by some robber who is isolated from the enemies main group with a javlin not only once but several times and on the other hand dealing myself only low damage is a bit frustrating.
And I have no problem with the injury feature or that lances break and so on, but dealing some more damage myself and getting a bit less from some low level enemy is the only thing i want 

Spitfire84 said:

so stop giving your 2 cents

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You do really have a problem with an opinion that differs from yours 

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I think that you are exaggerating, if you fight properly you wont be killed that easy by peasants, most of the times the only dangerous rebels are the pirates but not the peasants, just buy a shield and stay with your army and be strategic and you wont die easiley. Im already 200 ingame days in the mod and I dont remember the last time that I died, the maximum that I died I think are 3 or 4 times in all these 200 ingame days, and all of them by archers and xbowmens.

Leonidas300 said:

I think that you are exaggerating

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I wish I would  and I use a shield
But as I stated before tweaking a bit the damage output/damage you suffer, so you can be a bit more active yourself on the battlefield would be nice for "rambo warriors" like me (as you might see me )
But I think we should wait for Othr's,Kuauik's or DrTomas' opinion, because we are just running in circles.
And if they say my opinion is totally wrong and I am just to stupid to play this mod properly, I will

Spitfire84 said:

stop giving [my] 2 cents and just play the game and adapt to its new features.

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Spend 250k on your armor and you'll survive longer, quite considerably longer (unless 2-handers swarm you).

Oarsman said:

Spitfire84 said:

so stop giving your 2 cents

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You do really have a problem with an opinion that differs from yours 

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No I don't have a problem with opinions that differs from mine, but opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one and they are usually full of ****.

Spitfire84 said:

but opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one and they are usually full of ****.

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What a "nice" view on other's opinions 

@ Oarsman, even if this may not be your style, if you manage to gather enough miles/armiger eques/ritterbruder/homo armatus all together (I had some luck, I admit it, rescuing them as prisoners) the native tactics 3, f1, f3 works perfectly: just keep an eye on terrain and on the enemy numbers. To soften the enemy forces, try out archers - especially genoese crossbowmen and cymry longbowmen, easily recruitable in Genoa or Britain for 1000 dinars. I repeat that, because I remember I couldn't find some use for them when I commanded a squad of swadian knights back in my glorious days in native

If you wish, you may kill or wound an enemy soldier (and run like hell after) to force the enemy to advance towards your positions. The losses into the ranks of advancing infantry will be high (forcing the enemy formations to stop and regroup). Then you have to make your infantry shieldwall advance and charge your cav from the flanks. Depending on the enemy, a simple 3, f1, f3 may be enough, tough.

Also, keep on gallopping around the chasing enemy (killing the idiots that leave the shieldwall) is dangerous but still effective if you are alone. Short circles around the enemy will force missile troops to grab their melee weapons, which are far less intimidating than arrows, bolts and javs. Hit the crossbows first while they reloading.

Otherwise you may keep an hit and run tactic on the enemy formations, if you don't have enough cav support but you have infantry and archers.

Kill the little fishes and engage armoured enemies only when you are leveled enough (or when they are fighting against your own man, from the back). It is a slow operation to kill them, but if you have gathered enough speed and gave enough strenght to your blow (THIS is a daring operation that exposes you to enemy missile) you should be able to kill a miles in three or four sword attacks. Never charge a spear, stop shortly before the enemy and let him deliver his blow while you slowly flank and hit him.

Talking about damage: standard sword won't make much damage, I suggest you to get a bastard sword (two handed/one handed), it works well to me - and an axe if you happen to fight on foot. My character is completely chained with a 50-60 helm and I rarely die immediately. 

So, I used to play this mod, and I was able to chose and option in the beginning, the option being the regular recruitment option, as I do not favor the lance one. It wont let me anymore, is there any way to get it back? Has it been removed? help would be greatly appreciated.

Kittler said:

So, I used to play this mod, and I was able to chose and option in the beginning, the option being the regular recruitment option, as I do not favor the lance one. It wont let me anymore, is there any way to get it back? Has it been removed? help would be greatly appreciated.

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yes it has been removed for a couple of reasons 1. it's a waste of time to maintain and 2. The lance system is better.

There are two ways to get it back, you either will have to update to a revision that has it (don't ask, I don't know which one) or you will have to play either another mod or play M&B:Warband Native again. Don't ask, it's not coming back and no Othr will not put the option back. This is the way the developers meant for the game to be played.

@F.F.C._fritz
Really thx for the help though I already use most of those tactis, I'll try out those archers you recommended

the damage system need more change.
ex:
1. master work heavy cross bow hit 20-25 damage to framer
2. the reload speed when arm injured:
- javelin, spear: = x
- bow: = y

i see x = y about reload speed (compare with not injured. this mean if you arm injured or not, then no thing happen. same speed reload.)

- crossbow: ... it is problem. a huge time for reload when injured arm. i always drop crossbow when injured arm. but it is very fun weapon with me.

=> the bow, javelin, have partial than crossbow about time reload after arm injured

About the crossbows imagine that your arm is injured truly, how could you load it? It would be a hard time realoading it, you would truly drop it after injured, so it is okay as it is because it shows the realism very well.