Garden of Souls (v4) - map - idea/developmant

Cross and Crescent

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up5PW2iorpM&feature=autoplay&list=PL8C8A11CAA56A78DD&lf=results_main&playnext=2

GARDEN OF SOULS






- map, will be going back to beginning of 12century (for Splintert - around 1110). This means no advanced weapons like pikes or plate armors. This will be time of first Crusaders...

I will not try to copy one of the originall scenes just yet. I start from Mediterranean Island. It could be Cyprus, Sicilia or Majorca)... No matter. What matter is struggle beatwen Muslim(Sarranid),Christian(Swadia) and Byzantine(Veagirs) World with addition of Vikings(Nords)

I have few key ideas which make this map different:

1.Only soldiers will make faction
2.No soldiers professions for commoners
3.Castles will be very small and their role focus mainly on keeping treasury chest save
4.Castles will be placed on the hills as watch towers
5.All weapons will be made by commoners eng in nearby village and available in local markets ( I want it to make as much profitable to eng as possible)
6.Diffrent villages would produce different kind of weapons.

General idea: If faction(soldiers) will keep their territory save they have it populated by commoners and in this way they will have more income from taxes.
Faction will be able to ride enemy villages to scare/enslave/kill population - good example: kidnapping doctor

General Explanation: If somebody is offended by bringing struggle beatwen religions which had place almost 1000 years ago then I am sorry for him. I like history a lot and this is one of the reason I play this game. Period when 3 major religions were fighting for Mediterraneans is one of the most fascinating times in history. The fact that for some this struggle is still actual have nothing to do with this game. I shell just ignore them.

VERY basic terrain:



Colored areas:
Swadia
- plains,no ships (how they get on this island?)
Veagir
- hills, ballanced faction
Bandits
- very difficult area to get to plus paradise for archers
Nords
- practicly no horses and no need for it, closed area, the best way to get out is to use ships and ride the island(river will be sailable)
Sarranid
- save on peninsula,ballanced faction

I'm aware that it's early wip, but remember not to place castles in the middle of the open fields if there is some landmark nearby. Nobody would place castle in plains if there is coast/hill/river/estuary nearby, that could potentially create natural protection (and thus reduce amount of work that high walls require). I'm talking about Sarranids, Swadians and Vaegirs.

Also - I don't really like central island design - it makes ships nearly useless...

Thanks for suggestions. I will need a lot of them...

Castles: there will be placed on higher ground than surroundings as their main goal (apart of keeping faction money safe) is watchtower function. Castles also will be very simple (like single keep in some cases) so,as you said, there is strong necessity for natural defence. Swadia will be on top of unnatural (made by swadians) hill. Veagirs will use natural location. I am not sure about Sarranid. Eastern port/town is temptation but I waste so much time and energy on it last time around that I want to do something simple. Maybe something like Syracuse-Ortygia will do the job. I have to work on that. In that time Muslim architecture stand high above western one so maybe it should be done like town with proper walls and castle on the seperate small island (DOMA_ done it allready )

I design island thinking about sailing a lot. You can sail around and get to every faction center from the coast as well as you can sail on river and get to every faction from inland. I do not see other solution at the moment to have island not bay or fjords. I try to create natural barriers beatwen faction which as well explain why they coexist as make difficult to unite island. Swadia should be only one faction which only defence is open space and superior cavalry.

General idea is balance which is based on limitation of every faction. Nords are protected by mountains. Veagirs by hills and anticavalry weapons.Swadia by open plains and cavalry.Sarranids by easy to deffend narrow access to their lands.

In fact only one really effective strategy of conquering island should be using fleet.

I like to know your opinion about OP as well.

it might just be me - but the scene looks pretty small. Did you expand it or is it the default size?

I think the castles should be closer to the water for natural defence (close to corners) and have a dock / port entrance

Maybe if that river went all the way to the bottom it would be better, dividing the map into 2 islands instead of 1, it would make ships more effective

Thank you for your suggestion. I may sound deffensive at the times but you really make me think again about what you saying. It does help a lot to read others people opinion.

xombie5 said:

it might just be me - but the scene looks pretty small. Did you expand it or is it the default size?

Click to expand...

The map is max size. I took screen from really high attitiude to see how much sea I really have. I wanted sea to be fully sailable instead of being just decoration and couse ships crashes to the edge of the map.

Colored areas should really cover not only castle/keep but surrounding commoners villages as well. I have not answer question yet, should they be surrounded by wall or not.

Mishkin said:

I think the castles should be closer to the water for natural defence (close to corners) and have a dock / port entrance

Maybe if that river went all the way to the bottom it would be better, dividing the map into 2 islands instead of 1, it would make ships more effective

Click to expand...

This was my idea in the beginning but then I realise that is not always the best choice. It depend on the terrein and specific skills of your soldiers. If you army has good archers then you prefer enemy to land on the beach where you can weaken them with "rain of arrows" before malee contact. You would choose as high ground as possible to have better view and make their assult harder. You may think that the best place would be a rock near see with limited acces to it. Problem is that invaders can cut you off the land and easily siege you while pillaging your village. Only really big towns/fortresses (like Constantinopol or Syracuse) were placed right next to the sea. However the oldest part of this towns were placed in some distanse of it. There are Vikings on this Island. Every Faction should be aware of it. They were masters in suprising attack from the sea. It was Vikings who forced Europe to build their settlemants in land. I want to force Viking faction to use mainly ships and play role of pirates. No lancers, man at arms professions for them. No good horses.

Speaking of which,,,,

How many ships you can place on map? Is there is exact number or it is matter of balance and testing?

PS.RIver..if it would be possible to rise water level and make it work smothly I would drag the river as far as Veagirs but it is not. I have to finish somewere to make it look natural or divided island like DOMA_ did.

As many ships as you want. I'm planing to put 7 on my map, test scene has 4 or 5, Port royale uses ****load, and still don't crash.

Great news. 

Without ships this map really will not work.

I plan 4 or 5 drakkars for Nords and 2 each for Sarranid and Veagirs.

I have not seen any stats or comperation of them.
..and as swadian/horsman I do not use them a lot..just as relaxation and great AFK place on hostile servers.

Which ships are acctually the best?

9 total ships - should works, but I doubt that nords need so many of them.
Ships statistics are:
longship hp 4000 speed 7
dhow hp 7000 speed 6
cog hp 10000 speed 5
writen from memory, might be wrong.
Other characteristics are visual/hitbox/cover/easiness of lone sailing - so it's subjective which is the best.

Thanks for info
from your stats seams that Sarranids and Veagirs should have 2 dhows plus MAYBE! 1 cog for Swadia

I do not know as well if Nords will need so many ships. I never played as Nord (and I hate them ..from Native...no offence..I try to be objective) but on my map ships will be the fastest way for them to move around the map.

Any Nord around? I need your opinion about ships, wepones and general habits in PW...

PS...my family going away..I should provide you with more screens soon...at the moment I can finally work in quite and peace... (if you see me again in forum, just tell me: Nov! Back to work! ..and STOP CREATING NEW THREADS!!!  )
mapmaking soundtrack..sample:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqGN23fn6j0

Looks pretty cool.

Go Silicia! My faction (cilician pirates) Will get to visit home again!

With Sicilia I would have to move back to around 1000 to have all Bysantium/Normans/and Arrabic faction....

I will slowly carry on with my map making but I come out with new idea.

I like to see what you think about it.

The bandit area(brown on map) will be acctually the central Kings Town. It will be without training station for faction but it would be capturable.Idea is to make it commoners town with a lot of taxes to collect from the chest but hard to control and deffend.

I also think about limiting training possibilities for factions:
For example Swadia: only man at arms and lancers; Nords: only footman,archers and sailors.
This idea is to force faction to create real alliances.

More soon.

[size=14pt][size=12pt]Palace of Kings:[/size][/size]

Noo noo keep pikes.
I love pikes. Also they're from the early middle ages.
Also they're not OP. 

This map looks amazing, and a great place for RP to thrive

Good work Red

The Sniper said:

This map looks amazing, and a great place for RP to thrive

Good work Red

Click to expand...

The map does not look just yet. I was really busy in the past. I opened thread to see what people think about general idea of the map.
Thank you for good word it always helps a lot.

Whalen207 said:

Noo noo keep pikes.
I love pikes. Also they're from the early middle ages.
Also they're not OP. 

Click to expand...

Spear should be good enough (and it is  ) to stop horseman. Pikes are as late as 14 century (both in Switzrerland and Scotland). Normans as well as Byzatium used wooden sticks to protect archers not pikesman.

Personally I loved Laszlos simplicity about sort of weapones used in game. It make gameplay very special and focus on player skill rather than special weapons. This is how I see early medieval time. Breavery on the edge of madness and combat face to face.

I still think about xbows. Option 1: no Xbows, Option 2: Xbows only in eastern castle (Muslim soldiers in Spain used Xbows as early as 12 century)

Looking forward to seeing this Map mate.