The reason Warband can't handle "officer buffs" is because their implementation requires too many resources. If your algorithm has a complexity of n^2, that means it takes the number of players squared resources to complete. It doesn't matter how fast of a processor you have, you're only gaining miniscule advantages in terms of runtime for an algorithm of high complexity. Not to mention that Module system scripts are going to run far slower than an engine feature. Vornne states all the time that checking distance from agents is an extremely intensive task, which is why he's refused to implement some features requiring that processing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_O_notation
Warband can't use more than 4GB of RAM because it is 32-bit, right. But that's completely irrelevant because it never uses more than 4GB of RAM under normal circumstances - that is, with the design player count limits, with nothing but Native scripts running, on extremely small maps with short rounds.
Warband can't handle large maps because the engine is not designed to do so. They most certainly could increase the limit just by changing some numbers around, but the game is not designed have even remotely close to PW sized maps, with so many scripts, and so many players.
If there's a technological jump, that is, we abandon the Turing machine design, or go to quantum computing (which has been demonstrated not to provide much of an advantage in runtimes for high complexity algorithms) Warband won't run!
The advantage you get by throwing a faster processor at a high complexity algorithm is negligible. Throwing more memory at the game doesn't help either, you'll still be limited by the computer's ability to change values in the memory. Throwing more network bandwidth doesn't help either, because eventually you'll start cutting out people who don't have several hundred KB/s stable connections. As I said before as well, the network bandwidth required grows exponentially with the number of players. It's simply not practical to wait for technology to catch up.
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The only thing I'm refuting is your claim that the only reason Warband's limit is 200 players is because it's 32-bit. This isn't true at all. The vast majority of games that look way better than Warband and are possibly more complex are still 32-bit applications. 64 bit still hasn't really caught on.
Well, I know that the engine needs to be reworked, that's probably the main feature of Bannerlord -- completely reworked engine.
You are wrong that Native does not need a lot of resouces. It would need them for epic battles, like the one I had once in Singlplayer.
After like 1 in-game year I have like a thousand of elite soldiers: Rhodok Sharpshooters, Nord Huscarls, Sarranid Mamlukes. Sarranid Sultanate is completely conquered. Now it comes to the great battle against Swadians. With my extra-big reknown and leadership I have an army of 200 men with me. I see Swadian Army approaching my city, Veluca. As I am the marshall of Kingdom of Rhodoks, I start a campaign. Almost all the lords join me. I don't remember the exact numbers -- but it was like 3500 soldiers on each side. So, what can I do?
1) Have normal battle with normal battlesize. Would look like a bull****, as it would not be an epic battle.
2) Increase battle size with an editor to allow all armies spawn at the same time. Did it. And you know, game could not handle it -- just because it could not consume so a lot of memory. I found that it does not crash on a point of like 1000-1500 soldiers at a time, and even though I had like 1 frame per 3 seconds and couldn't actually participate in the battle, only control my men, it was really epic.
If Warband could feature bigger maps, it would be possible to feature battles with thousands of soldiers per side, where the sides meet each other after like 5 minutes of walking, thinking where to take a stand. But it is impossible.
You know, I would like to see something like Total War in a form of Mount&Blade, like commader battles in NW, where each commander will have a band of ~200 men that he controls.
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Technological jumps that can help are, for example:
1) GPON in every flat after 2-3 years, giving extra huge bandwidth
2) HDD totally replaced by SSD in almost every computer, resulting in huge reading and writing speed boost
3) New form of RAM that will be faster and give much bigger size of RAM
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Where did I claim that Warband being 32-bit is the ONLY reason?
Well, I know that the engine needs to be reworked, that's probably the main feature of Bannerlord -- completely reworked engine.
You are wrong that Native does not need a lot of resouces. It would need them for epic battles, like the one I had once in Singlplayer.
After like 1 in-game year I have like a thousand of elite soldiers: Rhodok Sharpshooters, Nord Huscarls, Sarranid Mamlukes. Sarranid Sultanate is completely conquered. Now it comes to the great battle against Swadians. With my extra-big reknown and leadership I have an army of 200 men with me. I see Swadian Army approaching my city, Veluca. As I am the marshall of Kingdom of Rhodoks, I start a campaign. Almost all the lords join me. I don't remember the exact numbers -- but it was like 3500 soldiers on each side. So, what can I do?
1) Have normal battle with normal battlesize. Would look like a bull****, as it would not be an epic battle.
2) Increase battle size with an editor to allow all armies spawn at the same time. Did it. And you know, game could not handle it -- just because it could not consume so a lot of memory. I found that it does not crash on a point of like 1000-1500 soldiers at a time, and even though I had like 1 frame per 3 seconds and couldn't actually participate in the battle, only control my men, it was really epic.
If Warband could feature bigger maps, it would be possible to feature battles with thousands of soldiers per side, where the sides meet each other after like 5 minutes of walking, thinking where to take a stand. But it is impossible.
You know, I would like to see something like Total War in a form of Mount&Blade, like commader battles in NW, where each commander will have a band of ~200 men that he controls.
__
Technological jumps that can help are, for example:
1) GPON in every flat after 2-3 years, giving extra huge bandwidth
2) HDD totally replaced by SSD in almost every computer, resulting in huge reading and writing speed boost
3) New form of RAM that will be faster and give much bigger size of RAM
___
Where did I claim that Warband being 32-bit is the ONLY reason?
I know that Warband needs resources to run effectively. I understand that Native SP can have many units onscreen at once. But there's a reason it needs so many resources. The number of units!
Total War is an illusion. Each individual is little more than a blob, with very little processing involved. All the real processing is done to entire battalions - that's how it creates the illusion of large battles. Warband cannot do this, it has to individually control each unit in a detailed manner and every new feature needs more processing power.
My point is this:
2) Increase battle size with an editor to allow all armies spawn at the same time. Did it. And you know, game could not handle it -- just because it could not consume so a lot of memory. I found that it does not crash on a point of like 1000-1500 soldiers at a time, and even though I had like 1 frame per 3 seconds and couldn't actually participate in the battle, only control my men, it was really epic.
This is the exact reason why. It's not a memory issue - your game would crash if it ran out of memory. It's a processing power issue. This is because of the complexity of processing an algorithm over a thousand times! The more complex the algorithm, the more unrealistic it is to expect larger numbers.
Multiplayer doesn't experience the processing power issue in Native Warband. Why? There's not thousands of units, and your client doesn't have to process each unit's AI. It simply updates their location. The bottleneck is bandwidth. The more clients connecting to a single server, the more bandwidth the server has to have. And the more time the server needs to process all of the updates from each client. I didn't mention it before, but yes, the server has to process things too. If it takes 50ms for a server to process updates, everyone's going to get unbelievable network lag in the form of high ping. It will be unplayable.
1) GPON in every flat after 2-3 years, giving extra huge bandwidth
Not practical. Do you seriously think that in the course of 3 years the entire planet will be covered with fiber optic networks to each and every household? Anyone who believes that is delusional.
2) HDD totally replaced by SSD in almost every computer, resulting in huge reading and writing speed boost
Again, not practical. SSD tech isn't going to simply replace HDDs because it's faster. SSDs have disadvantages too, like the fact that they die after x write cycles. Not to mention its impossible to enforce a rule that only people with SSDs can play your game... and another aspect being that no game is going to be loading vital data to/from any permanent storage device because they are much much slower than necessary for good FPS. (16ms is the time it takes to spit 1 frame to your monitor at 60FPS - everything needed for every frame has to be ready every 16ms - not practical even with SSD).
3) New form of RAM that will be faster and give much bigger size of RAM
Doesn't matter. The bus speed from CPU -> RAM is the bottleneck, not the speed of the RAM. You can't make electricity move faster without exorbitantly increasing the price (superconductors).
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So, yes, if you were theoretically able to give Warband infinite resources with infinite bandwidth and infinite memory that moves infinitely fast, you'd be able to have infinitely many units onscreen performing infinitely complex operations. Doesn't mean its practical.
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And so I'm not sitting here being all cynical, I'll explain how it would be possible to do what you wish.
Concurrency.
That is, splitting tasks between different threads that can process while one thread is waiting on stuff. Unfortunately, it only helps to a degree. For one, there's overhead to running multiple threads for any application and a video game is no different. Two, there are many tasks in a video game that cannot be run in a separate thread. I don't know enough about game development in particular to give examples. Either way, Warband does in fact use multiple cores. Try limiting it to single threading in the config and you'll see that it does help FPS to a degree. Unfortunately it doesn't matter, because a game can only run as fast as its main thread (which does most of the work). Even if you were able to create a separate thread for each individual unit without any overhead, all of these threads cannot access memory at the same time.
You know, I would like to see something like Total War in a form of Mount&Blade, like commader battles in NW, where each commander will have a band of ~200 men that he controls.
Actually, that is also something I wish could be made.
Not speaking of only Total War series, because I don't play those games, but the very first games I started playing were the Battle for Middle-earth strategy games published by EA Games, back in the days when that company was actually good.
So, I too always wished that it could exist a game just like these strategy games, but with you actually playing as a regular soldier with a thousand of other ones beside you, in huge maps fighting against another thousand soldiers, but that's just me...
Bannerlord has a pretty powerful new engine designed for it, so I think that it will turn out just great, also judging by the video I've seen in Blog 8, I think that making mods for Bannerlord will be way easier, the developers also mentioned once that they are allowing us much more freedom to mess around with the game, so that we can create really cool mods for the community.
Let's just hope that everything turns out perfectly fine, I personally think it will be.
If they met a decent standard of appearance and optimization, they would be included in some form: meshes for PW should use textures from Native where possible, optimizing to fit anything else required on the minimum number and size of additional texture sheets (for performance).
Baskakov_Dima said:
2) Well, I still ask that question again -- why not to give equal boost to those who have 75% or more food units?
Because the concept is for more food eaten to result in faster resource gathering, to be simple and intuitive.
Baskakov_Dima said:
3) The concept is, that you make the cup at first (from gold, silver, or anything else), and fill it with wine. Then you RP with it, use it, but it becomes an empty cup, it doesn't disappear.
That might be appropriate, if the time and resources to make cups is enough to avoid the world getting littered with empty cups that people discarded after drinking from.
Baskakov_Dima said:
By the way, Vornne has already said that he will not make PW for Bannerlord if it will not have Linux version.
You remember wrong: I said that I will most likely not buy or develop for Bannerlord if it does not work on Linux at all (I have played M&B for years before it had a native Linux client, using Wine to run the Windows version), and will also be unlikely to buy if it is made Steam exclusive - which seems the more likely reason, since a Linux Steam exclusive version of Warband has already been released, and lately all the testing and beta releases have been intentionally restricted to Steam (which I don't use, by choice).
The neogk mod for native adds working siege equipment like boiling oil tippers, catapults, wall mounted ballistas , and even trebs to the battlefield. Are these new features something we can hope to see in an update? I would think that because they are already made it wouldnt be too hard to add, but then again im not a developer so sorry if i sound dumb saying that.
The neogk mod for native adds working siege equipment like boiling oil tippers, catapults, wall mounted ballistas , and even trebs to the battlefield. Are these new features something we can hope to see in an update? I would think that because they are already made it wouldnt be too hard to add, but then again im not a developer so sorry if i sound dumb saying that.
That sort of thing has been part of the possible future plan ever since the early days of PWMOD v2: I have quite a few detailed implementation ideas, but it has not been either something that tied in with other main planned features, or something easy to do on a whim. The new operations available in Warband 1.161 (whenever the non-Steam and module system downloads become available) will probably make aspects of the ideas easier, avoiding the need for various hacky workarounds, so it might become more of an interesting project then. Bearing in mind that I have been very busy with other things in life lately, and there is plenty of work to finish off features or changes already in progress; so a time frame would not be given, if anyone asked.
I've been playing native and NW for 2 years now but just decided to try some mods 2 weeks ago.
It's been fun learning the class system for PW and exploring the maps, I'm even thinking of trying to
make a map and the tutorials look great.
Between beer and bread and meat there is probably already enough food choices in the game.
But, it would be fun to use a bucket to get milk from a cow. Currently when looking at a cow it only
says 'not rideable'. Instead, it could change to say 'milk' if you had labor skill and a bucket in hand.
Milk from a bucket could be served at a bar to get 4 beer type jugs of milk. A jug of milk could be processed
at the process bench into a jug of butter. A jug of butter could be processed with a pinch of salt to make cheese.
The butter and cheese icons are already in the game from the items available in the native inventory. Well, maybe
not 3D butter, I've never seen it in the game but the cheese pops up as a table decoration in some places.
Thanks to the developers for taking a game about medieval combat and making it fun to play a peasant trying to sell
bread and make up stories with other players.
The prop pw_siege_wall_b is messed up. When built you can walk through it. So i adjusted the width var to be wider. And now people get stuck inside the wall. In edit mode i didnt have these issues but when put up on the server i work for (Celestial_NA) they seem to always be a problem. Adjusting the width of the prop didnt fix it so i want to know if theres something im doing wrong. Or if its a server probelm or a problem with the prop itself. Thank you for taking the time to help me out.
Well that doesnt sound good. Im trying to implement buildable forts that can be used by non faction groups. People really like the idea but the walls never work. Im going to try a new prop but i do still want to know if this is fixable or a problem only the devs could handle.
Me, i want à simple but good system to prevent horse jacking !
I hate people who enter and block everyone with they horse because if they dismount in front, they will never see again their horse !
I have an idea, i think simple to do :
Let people to buy apples, they interact with the horse with the fruit in the hand, and they will be a small chance to success, if the robber fail, he have to re-interact with the horse, after 5 use, the apple disapear.
I know you have denied this suggestion time and time again, yet the issue is still there.
Why you can not vote yourself a lord of a faction?
PW needs this. Just believe me
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how about make it far more expensive option than existing one?
realism: every politician has to choose himself first before others fallow..
I'm interested whether it's possible to make female players spawn with dresses instead of the default shirts/tunics. I've noticed a few female peasants and serfs and it's quite odd that they have to wear male civilian clothes.
I also have a suggestion regarding implementing some Native gear, like the Light Mail and the Steppe Helmet (used in tourneys). They look good enough and I'm sure that players will make extensive use of them. Currently, lords don't really have any distinctive armoured suit, and the Light Mail perfectly fulfills the role. The Steppe Helmet, on the ther hand, is a much needed addition to the lacking Khergit variety.
You may as well remember that I suggested door sounds (which was accepted, but not put in practice because of the lack of sounds). As a preventive measures, you can use the bow drawing sounds, whch pretty much give the immersion of a "creek". I believe you'd only have to inclease the volume.
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