Bug reports and suggestions - read the first post

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What this thread is for:
Bug reporting, suggestions, and related development discussion: they are mixed in one thread because I've found that most people are not very good at recognising the difference between "bugs" and "suggestions" or "feature requests", so one thread makes it easier. Discussion is allowed if it is directly related to suggestions or bugs, giving your testing results, opinions, or experiences; but try to make sure it is relevant for the basic PW mod as a whole, not specific to how one scene is designed or how a server is administrated.

Known issues which are probably not fixable:
  • Death messages will appear green when you kill anyone and red for all other players, like deathmatch; this is due to working around the hard coded restriction on the number of teams.
  • Projectile items disappear when fired or thrown under the terrain level, like when inside some interiors.
  • In DirectX7 mode, the outer sea mesh doesn't stay at sea level, sloping upwards and looking ugly - it works fine with DirectX9.
  • When you connect to the game, shields already equipped by other players might be brown rather than the correct faction banner: this is probably because the agent and equipment data are sent by the game engine before the module sends the faction data.
Some of the things this thread is not for:
  • Asking when the next release date will be.
  • Asking for teasers or sneak previews of features in development.
  • Asking for help getting the mod installed - though if you are pretty sure you've found a bug that stops the mod from running on your system, feel free to post.
A common suggestion that I have no interest in or plans to add to the mod is using an external web server and database to save player stats and items forever; as the "Persistent World" title hints at, the main focus of this mod is to make a small part of a world with castles, resources, and player stats that are all inter-related, and can be affected by player actions, as opposed to having a generic static game world with players that have little connection with the current environment, since they keep progressing to be richer or more powerful regardless of how many times they die or what they did in that time - which I think leads to hoarding, "grinding", and a general lack of team play or meaningful interaction with other players. There are many other more traditional MMORPGs with that sort of design, and many players who enjoy playing them, but I dislike most of the aspects of it and want to make something more competitive, more in the spirit of native Mount & Blade and Warband.

Another common suggestion is to add a lot of new armor or weapon meshes from various other mods or "open source packs", but this is not planned for multiple reasons: the mod download size should be kept low so I can upload new versions often enough without going over internet data caps, and the amount of new textures and meshes should be kept limited for better performance on slower computers; added items should be from the approximate historical period of native warband, in a similar visual style, and suited to the game mechanics, to avoid the need for dramatically rebalancing the combat system; I am not primarily an artist and would have trouble making or adjusting things to fit in with the existing warband resources; preferably all the resources used should be from native or given to PW to avoid extra restrictions on how the overall mod is used. Many mods "die" because the ideas involved are too grand and far reaching, meaning that the developers get stuck in a huge complicated mess trying to do too many things at once, losing the initial enjoyment or motivation; I want to avoid that trap as much as possible.

However, if you are a moderately skilled artist and want to contribute some meshes or textures, feel free to suggest them here: you should at least get a reply about whether they are wanted or to an acceptable standard. Bear in mind that new texture sheets are a major cause of increased mod size and load times, so you should always use as many textures from native warband as possible.
 
In case this (old) post seems confusing, the poster I was replying to has deleted their post, and this is the first post in the old suggestions thread targeted at version 4.

Speaking about the current version 4:
alexispao said:
-Make it like cRPG , let everything be saved i.e. armor weapons money and stats.  (I know its hard to do , but add it as a goal) 
It takes 6-7 gameplay hours to get everything maxed (except stats, i mean armor etc) and get to a proper faction.
Letting people save their stuff will allow the creation of clans , since the world will actually be PERSISTENT and not 10-hour-living-world.
No, that is intentionally not going to happen. I want to make a mod that anyone can run with just a warband server, without needing all sorts of complex web servers and databases, and I don't like the "MMORPG" style "keep your stuff forever". Warband is not designed to be a MMO, and the engine doesn't seem to work very well for long game times (memory leaks, various other performance problems with longer times). Restoring stats, items, and gold after a map restart wouldn't be properly persistent, since all the other things you affected to get your stuff would be reset.
alexispao said:
-Let people leave the faction they belong to.
Already possible.
alexispao said:
-For the love of god (or anything) , REMOVE CRAFTING! If you make a poll about it on the server , 9 out of 10 people will agree its useless,time-consuming and not adding to the rpg element of the game.
-Maybe add AI to castles? AI that will hold positions on walls,never move and have endless ammo (but they are not so accurate). Lets say 10 bots per castle, it would add a lot to the atmosphere,in my opinion. Or make them hirable by the Lords for the cost of gold maybe? Please consider this :smile:
No and no. I dislike human bots in a RP style game, as they are treated basically like dumb animals.
alexispao said:
-Make iron deposits respawn after 10-15 minutes (or anyway double or triple the amount of the trees)
They will probably be set to respawn, but not that quickly, to emphasise tactical decisions.
alexispao said:
Don't add Hunger or animals.. especially hunger...people Ive talked to (all of them) agreed it will be a game-breaker.
Stop jumping at shadows; none of you know if it will be added, or how it might work.
 
"No, that is intentionally not going to happen. I want to make a mod that anyone can run with just a warband server, without needing all sorts of complex web servers and databases, and I don't like the "MMORPG" style "keep your stuff forever". Warband is not designed to be a MMO, and the engine doesn't seem to work very well for long game times (memory leaks, various other performance problems with longer times). Restoring stats, items, and gold after a map restart wouldn't be properly persistent, since all the other things you affected to get your stuff would be reset"

Why don't you ask for the peoples opinion? Make a poll....it must be good if people want it. Nothing more to say.

"Already possible"

No , its not. There is only the option to GET KICKED , not LEAVE (as far as I know at least, people ask to get kicked) . There is a difference between those verbs.

"No and no. I dislike human bots in a RP style game, as they are treated basically like dumb animals."

I only talked about stationary guard at walls , AI has NOTHING to do with this.  And about crafting , make a poll about it also. I wonder if you ever play this mod...see what people think of it...

"They will probably be set to respawn, but not that quickly, to emphasise tactical decisions."


Awesome!

"Stop jumping at shadows; none of you know if it will be added, or how it might work."

Its not so hard to think of , really. I believe HP will start to diminish once the character is hungry , and the player has to get food (probably by killing animals) to stop this.



You should make polls before adding or removing anything , actually , because the mod is kept alive by the community. If people don't like changes , they will leave and the mod  ,all this work will be wasted...


 
"Why don't you ask for the peoples opinion? Make a poll....it must be good if people want it. Nothing more to say."
because we have already had polls. they never get passed.

"No , its not. There is only the option to GET KICKED , not LEAVE (as far as I know at least, people ask to get kicked) . There is a difference between those verbs."
you must train as a peasant in the port town.

"I only talked about stationary guard at walls , AI has NOTHING to do with this.  And about crafting , make a poll about it also. I wonder if you ever play this mod...see what people think of it..."
in order to have bots of any kind that don't just attack the first person they see there must be AI. and AI is extremely complicated.

"Awesome!"
yup. until then, PW v4 is like a social experiment about society running out of tactical resources (such as oil in real life)

"Its not so hard to think of , really. I believe HP will start to diminish once the character is hungry , and the player has to get food (probably by killing animals) to stop this."
yeah, but most people assume if they don't eat every 10 seconds they will start to lose hp.
 
I fallowed early cRPG development phase - "you broke the mod with this update" and "you should ask community before updating" were most often posted phrases :razz:
alexispao said:
"No, that is intentionally not going to happen. I want to make a mod that anyone can run with just a warband server, without needing all sorts of complex web servers and databases, and I don't like the "MMORPG" style "keep your stuff forever". Warband is not designed to be a MMO, and the engine doesn't seem to work very well for long game times (memory leaks, various other performance problems with longer times). Restoring stats, items, and gold after a map restart wouldn't be properly persistent, since all the other things you affected to get your stuff would be reset"

Why don't you ask for the peoples opinion? Make a poll....it must be good if people want it. Nothing more to say.

pools are good if developer isn't sure what to do with certain feature, but absolutely not for basic mod changes - nobody will make mod that he doesn't like

"Already possible"

No , its not. There is only the option to GET KICKED , not LEAVE (as far as I know at least, people ask to get kicked) . There is a difference between those verbs.

You can leave faction - prop i in the middle of the town...

"No and no. I dislike human bots in a RP style game, as they are treated basically like dumb animals."

I only talked about stationary guard at walls , AI has NOTHING to do with this.  And about crafting , make a poll about it also. I wonder if you ever play this mod...see what people think of it...

stationary guards without real AI=like dumb animals - question has been already answered. about polls as above

"They will probably be set to respawn, but not that quickly, to emphasise tactical decisions."


Awesome!

First time I have to agree with you...:sad:

"Stop jumping at shadows; none of you know if it will be added, or how it might work."

Its not so hard to think of , really. I believe HP will start to diminish once the character is hungry , and the player has to get food (probably by killing animals) to stop this.

It could be done right and harmless. i.e. spawn/heal/train in castle only if there is food in castle granary... food was one of most important resources in medieval Europe - leaving it out of mod would be bad IMO

You should make polls before adding or removing anything , actually , because the mod is kept alive by the community. If people don't like changes , they will leave and the mod  ,all this work will be wasted...

polls, polls, polls...

Just my answer - don't tie it to Vornne anyhow...

EDIT: ninjad :/
 
alexispao said:
Why don't you ask for the peoples opinion? Make a poll....it must be good if people want it. Nothing more to say.
This is a suggestion thread, not a "dictate to the developers" thread. Development direction set by polls is a terrible idea, only used by new developers (in my experience) - sadly most players are very lazy, don't think things through, and hardly know what they really want; polls have their uses, but mainly when the choice is simple enough for most of the participants to fully understand. I really like to hear from players who have tested and thought about specific features in depth, and can present their detailed opinions logically and moderately, but otherwise... it's better ignored, mostly.
alexispao said:
No , its not. There is only the option to GET KICKED , not LEAVE (as far as I know at least, people ask to get kicked) . There is a difference between those verbs.
Just a minute, who wrote all the code - you or I? I only added the option for lords to kick players from the faction yesterday, but leaving a faction yourself has been possible since it was first implemented months ago.
alexispao said:
Its not so hard to think of , really. I believe HP will start to diminish once the character is hungry , and the player has to get food (probably by killing animals) to stop this.
Sorry, it is too hard for you to think of; I never planned to implement it like that.
alexispao said:
You should make polls before adding or removing anything , actually , because the mod is kept alive by the community. If people don't like changes , they will leave and the mod  ,all this work will be wasted...
I'll take that chance... I'm almost certain I have much more game development experience than you.

I'd probably better not continue this discussion further :razz: couldn't resist.

Edit: double ninja'd :wink:
 
Listen to be, blue-swirly avatar man;

the people playing this mod aren't here because they're thinking "gee, we ought to be more like cRPG," they're here because cRPG lacks something they desire. Anything you suggest it to move it more towards cRPG will only lose the fan-base it has acquired in spite of cRPG's existence.


As Vornne has said, these are "suggestions," and if people who ***** agree with you over your *****ing, "I talked to lots of people" and "9 out of 10 would agree," then I'm not surprised.

Why?

Everyone doesn't get what they want; now please, stop using so many weasel words "lots of people"; stop trying to say this should be cRPG; and stop being a nag to the developers. Things you disliked are now more likely to be added because you were such a *****.

I have made this post not because these things haven't already been said, but because there is a lesson in this- try too hard to get your way, and you'll only damage the odds of you getting it.
 
wow

Why is everyone so hostile? I didn't mean to sound demanding or something ,I just wanted to submit my personal suggestions (isnt this thread supposed to be the place for that?)
Especially Vornne + Azrayel...

So just to clarify;

@Vornne

I didnt dictate anything to anyone. You know, when you read text you make up on your mind the ton of my voice and my expression or general attitude.I think you  misunderstood me ,by failing to understand what my main points where. I didn't offend you in any way.  However ,you replied to all my points in a really negative way to the point I get offended.

Here is what you wrote.
I have marked with  Red the part of your replies that you didnt have to put in , and in Green , what a normal/neutral reply would be.

"This is a suggestion thread, not a "dictate to the developers" thread. Development direction set by polls is a terrible idea, only used by new developers (in my experience) - sadly most players are very lazy, don't think things through, and hardly know what they really want; polls have their uses, but mainly when the choice is simple enough for most of the participants to fully understand. I really like to hear from players who have tested and thought about specific features in depth, and can present their detailed opinions logically and moderately, but otherwise... it's better ignored, mostly".

*note*  I don't believe the players are lazy. Well , not all of them. I, for example, don't have the luxury to spend many hours trying to make money while im being randomed or attacked or robbed etc. Thats why I recommended making a save feature, because there are people such as me , and I don't  think it would hurt  anyone , plus it would allow the creation and organization of clans and the development of characters since the world would be actually persistent.
I only brought up cRPG as an example , because I have seen how their save system works, I don't play cRPG and I never will.



"Just a minute, who wrote all the code - you or I?"I only added the option for lords to kick players from the faction yesterday, but leaving a faction yourself has been possible since it was first implemented months ago."

I'm sorry I didnt clarify- I meant without having to pay for the class again. I mean it makes sense that I can keep my current gear and change sides, right?

"Sorry, it is too hard for you to think of; I never planned to implement it like that."
...
"I'll take that chance... I'm almost certain I have much more game development experience than you."

*note here* , when did I compare me and you? Making mods or games in general or whatever is not what I've studied , nor am I going to.I only posted suggestions.Replying like that , as a developer , to a simple player such as me  is certainly an unprofessional behaviour.

No need react in such a volatile way , mate. I hope I've cleared things out , a bit .







@Azrayel

I don't even know who the heck are you , you probably just replied because you either know him or you want to know him..... I don't know....
First time a guy randomly shows up and starts acting like the developers lawyer.


"Listen to be, blue-swirly avatar man"

Listen to be , what? And whats wrong with my avatar? Is this supposed to be a joke?This statement doesnt even make sense.

"As Vornne has said, these are "suggestions," and if people who ***** agree with you over your *****ing, "I talked to lots of people" and "9 out of 10 would agree," then I'm not surprised."

I didn't demand here. I only added these to point out that a number of people expressed these opinions , at least when I was playing. I'm not just putting these there randomly.


"Everyone doesn't get what they want; now please, stop using so many weasel words "lots of people"; stop trying to say this should be cRPG; and stop being a nag to the developers. Things you disliked are now more likely to be added because you were such a *****."


I'm not even going to make a comment on this statement... people can see who is being the 10 year old , and judge for themselves.



try too hard to get your way, and you'll only damage the odds of you getting it.


This is sooo wrong in so many ways..... I have countless examples in real life proving that the exact opposite is true... Maybe you didnt put much thought to it before posting it...I dont know..



Just look again at your post....Would you say that to me if you were not behind a computer screen? Being impolite on the webs is easy.... People still get offended  in the internet you know... Behind usernames,avatars and accounts there are real people.  I'm pretty sure you don't behave like that in real life.... Why do you have to rage on the taleworls forums ,on some random guy you dont even know?

Just remember this: Behind the wall of anonymity (the internet) , people bring out their inner self. I hope that helps you realize some things...




Anyways, sorry for the wall of text i've wrote and for the post being off topic, it just bothers me when people misunderstand me (Vornne) or act like raging children on the internet (Azrayel).
Looks like the community of this mod isnt as helpful and friendly as I once thought... I just hope that other posters won't get that kind of replies too....



PS: I'll act as if I didnt see the  childish  "ninja'd-imnowsoawesomebecauseiwontheultimatenerdragefightontheinterneteverandi'mlikesocoolrightnow" thingy.(It actually made me smile)

Peace. :grin:
 
go derp somewhere else. your suggestions were denied and now you are butthurt.

on a lighter note: think your suggestions through and think of why we don't like them
 
alexispao said:
Anyways, sorry for the wall of text i've wrote and for the post being off topic, it just bothers me when people misunderstand me (Vornne) or act like raging children on the internet (Azrayel).
Looks like the community of this mod isnt as helpful and friendly as I once thought... I just hope that other posters won't get that kind of replies too....
[/color]

I suggest you re-read your posts because Vornne had all the right to respond to you in the manner that he did.
 
@Sushiman

Not my fault you spend too much time in front of a computer screen.


@artifex

I did. Maybe the first one is a bit annoying at points but certainly not offensive in any way.

@Splintert

I'm not that addicted to be butthurt about my suggestions getting denied. I do still play this mod and I will until I get bored of it. They were suggestions not demands.
and I wouldnt be posting suggestions here if I didn't think them through, am I right?
Anyway , I'm glad with the new alpha, since the economy is now somewhat fixed and I dont mind having to craft or make an armor or weapon set :wink:

Half the prices-Double the reward = The mod is now awesome :smile:



And now that I remembered;

-It would be great if team chat was added , since now the enemies can suspect of our plans when they read on the global chat "All (x faction) gather up at the castle , urgent meeting"

-And one last suggestion ;What if a sailor or smth class was added? To prevent kiddies from crashing ships on purpose. Not everyone should be able to use the ships.This will help the admins since they wont have to reset the ships every 15 minutes , and it would cause factions to start organising their navy accordingly. (ie. 1 sailor to move the ship, 2 guards,3 serfs moving to the island to gather iron)

 
alexispao said:
What if a sailor or smth class was added? To prevent kiddies from crashing ships on purpose. Not everyone should be able to use the ships.This will help the admins since they wont have to reset the ships every 15 minutes , and it would cause factions to start organising their navy accordingly. (ie. 1 sailor to move the ship, 2 guards,3 serfs moving to the island to gather iron)
Hmm, that might be a good idea; but I'd probably make it a skill rather than a class, so it can be added to various existing classes... what about making the top speed you can set the ship the level of the sailing skill you have? So most troops could sail very slowly at speed 1, foot soldiers at 3, engineers and brigands at 4, and a sailor class up to 10 (or whatever the top speed of the ship is). This would avoid most damage to ships, since the damage done is proportional to the square of the speed.
 
alexispao said:
@Sushiman

Not my fault you spend too much time in front of a computer screen.


@artifex

I did. Maybe the first one is a bit annoying at points but certainly not offensive in any way.

@Splintert

I'm not that addicted to be butthurt about my suggestions getting denied. I do still play this mod and I will until I get bored of it. They were suggestions not demands.
and I wouldnt be posting suggestions here if I didn't think them through, am I right?
Anyway , I'm glad with the new alpha, since the economy is now somewhat fixed and I dont mind having to craft or make an armor or weapon set :wink:

Half the prices-Double the reward = The mod is now awesome :smile:



And now that I remembered;

-It would be great if team chat was added , since now the enemies can suspect of our plans when they read on the global chat "All (x faction) gather up at the castle , urgent meeting"

-And one last suggestion ;What if a sailor or smth class was added? To prevent kiddies from crashing ships on purpose. Not everyone should be able to use the ships.This will help the admins since they wont have to reset the ships every 15 minutes , and it would cause factions to start organising their navy accordingly. (ie. 1 sailor to move the ship, 2 guards,3 serfs moving to the island to gather iron)

You're just a saucey child.

I'd personally recommend banning him on disrespect grounds.
 
Hmm... similar to single player, you mean? Probably... but it doesn't seem very realistic or "RP friendly" - they didn't have radar back then. I'm not trying to go for a "competitive only, stuff all RP" style plan with v4 :wink:.
 
Vornne said:
Hmm... similar to single player, you mean? Probably... but it doesn't seem very realistic or "RP friendly" - they didn't have radar back then. I'm not trying to go for a "competitive only, stuff all RP" style plan with v4 :wink:.

just a map, no player positions or anything like that.
 
Ahh; then it depends on what it would look like. It should be possible to to have a map like the SP orders screen with dots showing the locations of different scene props, but not showing terrain (unless it was ridiculously intensive, which would absolutely nuke FPS); but I'm not that keen on the idea, seems very noobish. Can't gamers these days wander around the scene finding things out like you do in real life, and then remember stuff? /elitist rant


:razz:
 
since when did the forum community become so intelligent? must just be you and i. xD!

maps would reduce admin's load quite a bit, that's why i suggested it. don't sweat it though.

would it be possible to get an admin command to set a player back to commoner?
 
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