Poll

Of what faith are you?

Creationism
97 (14.4%)
A power of some sort (reincarnation/superstitions/fortune telling/etc.)
29 (4.3%)
Agnosticism (evolution implied)
135 (20.1%)
Atheism (evolution implied)
257 (38.2%)
Agnostic or atheist and does NOT believe in evoltion
15 (2.2%)
Theistic evolution (a god guided evolution)
96 (14.3%)
I'm really not sure at this point...
43 (6.4%)

Total Members Voted: 652

Author Topic: Evolution or Creation?  (Read 238251 times)

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Atilladahun

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Re: Evolution or Creation?
« Reply #3960 on: December 24, 2007, 01:55:31 AM »
But, how would they know for certain, what i mean to say is, how do they know that they could have already been digesting sugars in seaweeds? i dont know, like i said im not the sharpest pencil, but still doesn't convince me

Buxton

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Re: Evolution or Creation?
« Reply #3961 on: December 24, 2007, 01:59:39 AM »
Quote
Their digestive systems have adapted to extract the sugars in seaweeds more efficiently.

More efficiently - adaptation - evolution.

Seaweed is notoriously hard to digest, even in grazing animals like sheep and cows.

How do they know that they could have already been digesting sugars in seaweeds?

Check the other sheep.

Voutare

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Re: Evolution or Creation?
« Reply #3962 on: December 24, 2007, 02:33:49 AM »
scientists have not seen any evidence as far as literally an organism changing (i guess i could have used the word adapting instead) to its environment. so with this sense, evolution cannot be proved




It's easy to undertstand. Say there are 5 hermaphroditic organisms who reproduce sexually (for reasons of making this easier to understand). Now, of the five organisms, they each have different mutations. Say one has a better sense of smell, one is missing two limbs, one is fast, one is slow, and one is overall superior to them all. Of all the organisms, the one missing limbs will most likely die off, because they aren't adapted. Then the slower one will most likely die off, because they can't do this, or that. Then there are three left. Smell, speed, and superior. Most likely, these three organisms will survive, and unless one dies off, there will be a bunch of organisms with good smell, a bunch with good speed, and a bunch that are superior. From there, they may become three different species, creating 3 species, from what all started with 5 mutations, where natural selection occured.

(Sorry if that's confusing. I try.)




Here are 4 different finches. Of these 4 finches, they are each suited for eating a different type of thing.

Quote from: Darwin
The remaining land-birds form a most singular group of finches, related to each other in the structure of their beaks, short tails, form of body and plumage: there are thirteen species, which Mr. Gould has divided into four subgroups. All these species are peculiar to this archipelago; and so is the whole group, with the exception of one species of the sub-group Cactornis, lately brought from Bow Island, in the Low Archipelago. Of Cactornis, the two species may be often seen climbing about the flowers of the great cactus- trees; but all the other species of this group of finches, mingled together in flocks, feed on the dry and sterile ground of the lower districts. The males of all, or certainly of the greater number, are jet black; and the females (with perhaps one or two exceptions) are brown. The most curious fact is the perfect gradation in the size of the beaks in the different species of Geospiza, from one as large as that of a hawfinch to that of a chaffinch, and (if Mr. Gould is right in including his sub-group, Certhidea, in the main group) even to that of a warbler. The largest beak in the genus Geospiza is shown in Fig. 1, and the smallest in Fig. 3; but instead of there being only one intermediate species, with a beak of the size shown in Fig. 2, there are no less than six species with insensibly graduated beaks. The beak of the sub-group Certhidea, is shown in Fig. 4. The beak of Cactornis is somewhat like that of a starling, and that of the fourth subgroup, Camarhynchus, is slightly parrot-shaped. Seeing this gradation and diversity of structure in one small, intimately related group of birds, one might really fancy that from an original paucity of birds in this archipelago, one species had been taken and modified for different ends. In a like manner it might be fancied that a bird originally a buzzard, had been induced here to undertake the office of the carrion-feeding Polybori of the American continent.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2007, 02:37:13 AM by Voutare »

Llew

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Re: Evolution or Creation?
« Reply #3963 on: December 24, 2007, 02:36:32 AM »
Exactly. Common sheep cannot eat seaweed. These sheep can.
They're not birds yet though.

Archonsod

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Re: Evolution or Creation?
« Reply #3964 on: December 24, 2007, 02:39:22 AM »
Leave them there long enough and they might become fish though.
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Buxton

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Re: Evolution or Creation?
« Reply #3965 on: December 24, 2007, 02:40:14 AM »
Exactly. Common sheep cannot eat seaweed. These sheep can.
They're not birds yet though.

I'm not walking on water yet.

Voutare

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Re: Evolution or Creation?
« Reply #3966 on: December 24, 2007, 02:41:54 AM »
Leave them there long enough and they might become fish though.

Sheep-fish.

I can picture it now.

Archonsod

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Re: Evolution or Creation?
« Reply #3967 on: December 24, 2007, 02:42:20 AM »
Wooly Manatee's?
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Ancientwanker

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Re: Evolution or Creation?
« Reply #3968 on: December 24, 2007, 01:32:34 PM »
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To tell the truth I don't really go against the idea of new species being created, I just do not believe that Man is one of them. Evolution could very well be, and probably is the way God keeps animals on this earth, but all that business about the (specific) creation of man in the garden doesn't point towards the evolution of man himself. It is at that point in time that God starts talking to humans (specifically; he doesn't talk to animals), and humans become responsible for their actions.

The Catholics don't seem to mind that bit about the creation of man. The previous pope said that the creation of the soul was the issue, not the physical body. So they can see it as non-literal.

It's been said about 25 times in this thread but the people involved in the garden of eden couldnt possibly hold the genetic diversity we see today.  Evolution must have occured to generate new alleles in people. Very rapid evolution as well given that the garden was only a few thousand years ago.

Edit: Of course you can believe what you like. My only suggestion would be that you take a serious look at both sides of the issue and not rely on any one perspective until you've done so.  I'm no expert of creationism but I can do a fair job of articulating their positions because I enjoy reading their stuff.  AIG is a funny group. They dismiss many of the old creationist arguments but still promote much wackiness.  You should check out the old earth creationists with Hugh Ross as well:  http://www.reasons.org/

At least they dont try and fight physics, geology and astronomy like the young earth creationists.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2007, 04:06:11 PM by Ancientwanker »

Buxton

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Re: Evolution or Creation?
« Reply #3969 on: December 24, 2007, 03:03:50 PM »
I do enjoy how no-one has managed to contradict my 'sheep theory'.

schmendict

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Re: Evolution or Creation?
« Reply #3970 on: December 24, 2007, 04:53:47 PM »

captianstripes

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Re: Evolution or Creation?
« Reply #3971 on: December 24, 2007, 05:17:56 PM »
Can i ask a question? Thank you, what is the basic law of matter? Matter cannot be created! So basically for the "big bang" to have happened when one atom collided with another one creating a massive explosion or whatever, WHERE did those atoms come from????? And for evolution, men have wanted to fly for centuries so why don't I see birdmen? Or why don't I see Deer that have an eye in the back of their heads so they can see predators?? Why cant you just think "man I wish i had an extra arm" and your grandchildren progressively grow extra arms???? As far as I know man has looked the same for at least 5 thousand years and more. For anything to have happend their had to be a "beginning" so where did earth come from?? The planets? Why didn't all monkeys become humans? Why are their not 8 eyed Antelopes? And where did those molecules that form the world we see today come from?? To answer all those questions their is only one logical answer!! God!   
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Yoshiboy

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Re: Evolution or Creation?
« Reply #3972 on: December 24, 2007, 05:28:00 PM »
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Can i ask a question? Thank you, what is the basic law of matter? Matter cannot be created! So basically for the "big bang" to have happened when one atom collided with another one creating a massive explosion or whatever, WHERE did those atoms come from?????

God having created them makes equally no sense. And still breaks the law of matter. Technically matter as we understand it can be created anyway with enough energy and at the atomic level.
Quote
And for evolution, men have wanted to fly for centuries so why don't I see birdmen? Or why don't I see Deer that have an eye in the back of their heads so they can see predators?? Why cant you just think "man I wish i had an extra arm" and your grandchildren progressively grow extra arms???? As far as I know man has looked the same for at least 5 thousand years and more. For anything to have happend their had to be a "beginning" so where did earth come from?? The planets? Why didn't all monkeys become humans? Why are their not 8 eyed Antelopes? And where did those molecules that form the world we see today come from?? To answer all those questions their is only one logical answer!! God!

Sigh. I just wish people would learn what evolution actually is properly before they dismissed it. Time to fly to FSTDT on wings of fire. :)

Merentha

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Re: Evolution or Creation?
« Reply #3973 on: December 24, 2007, 05:31:30 PM »
And for evolution, men have wanted to fly for centuries so why don't I see birdmen? Or why don't I see Deer that have an eye in the back of their heads so they can see predators?? Why cant you just think "man I wish i had an extra arm" and your grandchildren progressively grow extra arms???? As far as I know man has looked the same for at least 5 thousand years and more. For anything to have happend their had to be a "beginning" so where did earth come from?? The planets? Why didn't all monkeys become humans? Why are their not 8 eyed Antelopes? And where did those molecules that form the world we see today come from?? To answer all those questions their is only one logical answer!! God!   
:lol:  Just wow.   :lol:


captianstripes

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Re: Evolution or Creation?
« Reply #3974 on: December 24, 2007, 05:38:21 PM »
And for evolution, men have wanted to fly for centuries so why don't I see birdmen? Or why don't I see Deer that have an eye in the back of their heads so they can see predators?? Why cant you just think "man I wish i had an extra arm" and your grandchildren progressively grow extra arms???? As far as I know man has looked the same for at least 5 thousand years and more. For anything to have happend their had to be a "beginning" so where did earth come from?? The planets? Why didn't all monkeys become humans? Why are their not 8 eyed Antelopes? And where did those molecules that form the world we see today come from?? To answer all those questions their is only one logical answer!! God!   
:lol:  Just wow.   :lol:



Wow in a good way or bad way??
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