Evolution or Creation?

Of what faith are you?

  • Creationism

    Votes: 95 14.9%

  • A power of some sort (reincarnation/superstitions/fortune telling/etc.)

    Votes: 29 4.5%

  • Agnosticism (evolution implied)

    Votes: 130 20.4%

  • Atheism (evolution implied)

    Votes: 239 37.5%

  • Agnostic or atheist and does NOT believe in evoltion

    Votes: 15 2.4%

  • Theistic evolution (a god guided evolution)

    Votes: 90 14.1%

  • I'm really not sure at this point...

    Votes: 40 6.3%
  • Total voters
    638

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But, how would they know for certain, what i mean to say is, how do they know that they could have already been digesting sugars in seaweeds? i dont know, like i said im not the sharpest pencil, but still doesn't convince me
 
Their digestive systems have adapted to extract the sugars in seaweeds more efficiently.
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More efficiently - adaptation - evolution.

Seaweed is notoriously hard to digest, even in grazing animals like sheep and cows.

Atilladahun said:
How do they know that they could have already been digesting sugars in seaweeds?
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Check the other sheep.
 
Atilladahun said:
scientists have not seen any evidence as far as literally an organism changing (i guess i could have used the word adapting instead) to its environment. so with this sense, evolution cannot be proved
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300px-Mutation_and_selection_diagram.svg.png



It's easy to undertstand. Say there are 5 hermaphroditic organisms who reproduce sexually (for reasons of making this easier to understand). Now, of the five organisms, they each have different mutations. Say one has a better sense of smell, one is missing two limbs, one is fast, one is slow, and one is overall superior to them all. Of all the organisms, the one missing limbs will most likely die off, because they aren't adapted. Then the slower one will most likely die off, because they can't do this, or that. Then there are three left. Smell, speed, and superior. Most likely, these three organisms will survive, and unless one dies off, there will be a bunch of organisms with good smell, a bunch with good speed, and a bunch that are superior. From there, they may become three different species, creating 3 species, from what all started with 5 mutations, where natural selection occured.

(Sorry if that's confusing. I try.)


Image:Darwin%27s_finches.jpeg


Here are 4 different finches. Of these 4 finches, they are each suited for eating a different type of thing.

Darwin said:
The remaining land-birds form a most singular group of finches, related to each other in the structure of their beaks, short tails, form of body and plumage: there are thirteen species, which Mr. Gould has divided into four subgroups. All these species are peculiar to this archipelago; and so is the whole group, with the exception of one species of the sub-group Cactornis, lately brought from Bow Island, in the Low Archipelago. Of Cactornis, the two species may be often seen climbing about the flowers of the great cactus- trees; but all the other species of this group of finches, mingled together in flocks, feed on the dry and sterile ground of the lower districts. The males of all, or certainly of the greater number, are jet black; and the females (with perhaps one or two exceptions) are brown. The most curious fact is the perfect gradation in the size of the beaks in the different species of Geospiza, from one as large as that of a hawfinch to that of a chaffinch, and (if Mr. Gould is right in including his sub-group, Certhidea, in the main group) even to that of a warbler. The largest beak in the genus Geospiza is shown in Fig. 1, and the smallest in Fig. 3; but instead of there being only one intermediate species, with a beak of the size shown in Fig. 2, there are no less than six species with insensibly graduated beaks. The beak of the sub-group Certhidea, is shown in Fig. 4. The beak of Cactornis is somewhat like that of a starling, and that of the fourth subgroup, Camarhynchus, is slightly parrot-shaped. Seeing this gradation and diversity of structure in one small, intimately related group of birds, one might really fancy that from an original paucity of birds in this archipelago, one species had been taken and modified for different ends. In a like manner it might be fancied that a bird originally a buzzard, had been induced here to undertake the office of the carrion-feeding Polybori of the American continent.
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To tell the truth I don't really go against the idea of new species being created, I just do not believe that Man is one of them. Evolution could very well be, and probably is the way God keeps animals on this earth, but all that business about the (specific) creation of man in the garden doesn't point towards the evolution of man himself. It is at that point in time that God starts talking to humans (specifically; he doesn't talk to animals), and humans become responsible for their actions.
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The Catholics don't seem to mind that bit about the creation of man. The previous pope said that the creation of the soul was the issue, not the physical body. So they can see it as non-literal.

It's been said about 25 times in this thread but the people involved in the garden of eden couldnt possibly hold the genetic diversity we see today.  Evolution must have occured to generate new alleles in people. Very rapid evolution as well given that the garden was only a few thousand years ago.

Edit: Of course you can believe what you like. My only suggestion would be that you take a serious look at both sides of the issue and not rely on any one perspective until you've done so.  I'm no expert of creationism but I can do a fair job of articulating their positions because I enjoy reading their stuff.  AIG is a funny group. They dismiss many of the old creationist arguments but still promote much wackiness.  You should check out the old earth creationists with Hugh Ross as well:  http://www.reasons.org/

At least they dont try and fight physics, geology and astronomy like the young earth creationists.
 
Can i ask a question? Thank you, what is the basic law of matter? Matter cannot be created! So basically for the "big bang" to have happened when one atom collided with another one creating a massive explosion or whatever, WHERE did those atoms come from????? And for evolution, men have wanted to fly for centuries so why don't I see birdmen? Or why don't I see Deer that have an eye in the back of their heads so they can see predators?? Why cant you just think "man I wish i had an extra arm" and your grandchildren progressively grow extra arms???? As far as I know man has looked the same for at least 5 thousand years and more. For anything to have happend their had to be a "beginning" so where did earth come from?? The planets? Why didn't all monkeys become humans? Why are their not 8 eyed Antelopes? And where did those molecules that form the world we see today come from?? To answer all those questions their is only one logical answer!! God! 
 
Can i ask a question? Thank you, what is the basic law of matter? Matter cannot be created! So basically for the "big bang" to have happened when one atom collided with another one creating a massive explosion or whatever, WHERE did those atoms come from?????
Click to expand...

God having created them makes equally no sense. And still breaks the law of matter. Technically matter as we understand it can be created anyway with enough energy and at the atomic level.
And for evolution, men have wanted to fly for centuries so why don't I see birdmen? Or why don't I see Deer that have an eye in the back of their heads so they can see predators?? Why cant you just think "man I wish i had an extra arm" and your grandchildren progressively grow extra arms???? As far as I know man has looked the same for at least 5 thousand years and more. For anything to have happend their had to be a "beginning" so where did earth come from?? The planets? Why didn't all monkeys become humans? Why are their not 8 eyed Antelopes? And where did those molecules that form the world we see today come from?? To answer all those questions their is only one logical answer!! God!
Click to expand...

Sigh. I just wish people would learn what evolution actually is properly before they dismissed it. Time to fly to FSTDT on wings of fire. :smile:
 
captianstripes said:
And for evolution, men have wanted to fly for centuries so why don't I see birdmen? Or why don't I see Deer that have an eye in the back of their heads so they can see predators?? Why cant you just think "man I wish i had an extra arm" and your grandchildren progressively grow extra arms???? As far as I know man has looked the same for at least 5 thousand years and more. For anything to have happend their had to be a "beginning" so where did earth come from?? The planets? Why didn't all monkeys become humans? Why are their not 8 eyed Antelopes? And where did those molecules that form the world we see today come from?? To answer all those questions their is only one logical answer!! God! 
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:lol:  Just wow.  :lol:

 
Merentha said:
captianstripes said:
And for evolution, men have wanted to fly for centuries so why don't I see birdmen? Or why don't I see Deer that have an eye in the back of their heads so they can see predators?? Why cant you just think "man I wish i had an extra arm" and your grandchildren progressively grow extra arms???? As far as I know man has looked the same for at least 5 thousand years and more. For anything to have happend their had to be a "beginning" so where did earth come from?? The planets? Why didn't all monkeys become humans? Why are their not 8 eyed Antelopes? And where did those molecules that form the world we see today come from?? To answer all those questions their is only one logical answer!! God!   
Click to expand...
:lol:  Just wow.   :lol:
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Wow in a good way or bad way??
 
God having created them makes equally no sense. And still breaks the law of matter. Technically matter [who created matter]? as we understand it can be created anyway with enough energy [where did this energy come from?] and at the atomic level.

God makes much more sense because God has the ability to do anything, he is not human he is GOD. And you cannot create matter it is imposible. You can take an electron and put it with a nuetron and then add a proton and you have an atom but you cannot CREATE a neutron or a proton or a electron, somthing would have had to place them there before. I do not know the exact definision of God but i do know that he is capable to do anything.
 
captianstripes said:
Can i ask a question? Thank you, what is the basic law of matter? Matter cannot be created!
Click to expand...

Actually, this is the basic law of energy. Energy cannot be created or destroyed, it just changes form.

captianstripes said:
So basically for the "big bang" to have happened when one atom collided with another one creating a massive explosion or whatever, WHERE did those atoms comefrom?????
Click to expand...

All of the universes energy and matter was collected into one massive point. The pressure was extremely high and as with radiation, one particle became agitated and set the whole thing off. And we don't know where it came from, that's what science aims to find out, we don't have all the answers, neither does religion.

One theory is that the big bang will be repeated, and the universe will collapse in on itself once again.



captianstripes said:
And for evolution, men have wanted to fly for centuries so why don't I see birdmen?
Click to expand...

You cannot will your cells to divide or mutate, DNA controls this, and chromotids pairing to form new DNA (gene pool variety) is completely random.

captianstripes said:
Or why don't I see Deer that have an eye in the back of their heads so they can see predators??
Click to expand...

Due to the positioning of their eyes, deer (as the same with most prey animals) have their eyes positioned on the side, and give a very wide angle of view -
Horse360.png


Extra eyes would waste energy and may even overload the brain, and are therefore unnesscary.



captianstripes said:
Why cant you just think "man I wish i had an extra arm" and your grandchildren progressively grow extra arms????
Click to expand...

Again, you can't will changes in the genetic code. If someone was born with an extra arm, I doubt they'd get a wife and pass their third-arm gene to their kids.



captianstripes said:
As far as I know man has looked the same for at least 5 thousand years and more.
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That's because there's been little in the way to kill us, we've had weapons to defend ourselves (something that animals don't have) so we needn't have claws to defend ourselves with.



captianstripes said:
For anything to have happend their had to be a "beginning" so where did earth come from?? The planets?
Click to expand...

Again, science doesn't know this - yet, and religion can't be proved.


captianstripes said:
Why didn't all monkeys become humans?
Click to expand...

You seem to believe that monkeys evolved straight into humans. This is not true. There are many different monkeys and apes. A good example would be that ones that lived on plains with long grass, some had the ability to stand on two-legs for short periods of time, giving them the ability to see predators. These ones survived. As they began to all be able to stand on two-legs, then they had better use of their front legs, to carry tools and weapons.

Actually, bi-pedal motion is one of the largest factors in human evolution


captianstripes said:
Why are their not 8 eyed Antelopes?
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Read me statement about prey animals above.


captianstripes said:
And where did those molecules that form the world we see today come from??
Click to expand...
Once more, science does not know this yet.

captianstripes said:
To answer all those questions their is only one logical answer!! God! 
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An infinite creature appearing from nowhere and creating everything with no reason to? Is that logical?



captianstripes said:
You can take an electron and put it with a nuetron and then add a proton and you have an atom but you cannot CREATE a neutron or a proton or a electron.
Click to expand...

Electrons and neutrons are made of even smaller particles recently discovered by science. So yes, you could make an electron and a neutron.
 
Buxton said:
captianstripes said:
Can i ask a question? Thank you, what is the basic law of matter? Matter cannot be created!
Click to expand...

Actually, this is the basic law of energy. Energy cannot be created or destroyed, it just changes form.

Ok well where did this energy originate from?

captianstripes said:
So basically for the "big bang" to have happened when one atom collided with another one creating a massive explosion or whatever, WHERE did those atoms comefrom?????
Click to expand...

All of the universes energy and matter was collected into one massive point. The pressure was extremely high and as with radiation, one particle became agitated and set the whole thing off. And we don't know where it came from, that's what science aims to find out, we don't have all the answers, neither does religion.

You may not have all the answers but so far as i can see it God explains everything. Simple. He created earth and humans, the animals, eveything. Period. And who thought up the wild big bang theory?? Also there is ABSALUTELY no proof or evidence of a big bang. (as far as i know)

One theory [guess?] is that the big bang will be repeated, and the universe will collapse in on itself once again.



captianstripes said:
And for evolution, men have wanted to fly for centuries so why don't I see birdmen?
Click to expand...

You cannot will your cells to divide or mutate, DNA controls this, and chromotids pairing to form new DNA (gene pool variety) is completely random. Where did this DNA come from??

captianstripes said:
Or why don't I see Deer that have an eye in the back of their heads so they can see predators??
Click to expand...

Due to the positioning of their eyes, deer (as the same with most prey animals) have their eyes positioned on the side, and give a very wide angle of view - BUT they cannot see fully behind or strait infront.
Horse360.png


Extra eyes would waste energy and may even overload the brain, and are therefore unnesscary. Hmm.. Then deer have a smaller brain then spiders?



captianstripes said:
Why cant you just think "man I wish i had an extra arm" and your grandchildren progressively grow extra arms????
Click to expand...

Again, you can't will changes in the genetic code. If someone was born with an extra arm, I doubt they'd get a wife and pass their third-arm gene to their kids.

Ok then how come animals got a wife and passed there [adapted?] gene to there Kids?


captianstripes said:
As far as I know man has looked the same for at least 5 thousand years and more.
Click to expand...

That's because there's been little in the way to kill us, we've had weapons to defend ourselves (something that animals don't have) so we needn't have claws to defend ourselves with.

And so what cuased humans to become humans? And why havent we seen any animals nearly as smart as humans?



captianstripes said:
For anything to have happend their had to be a "beginning" so where did earth come from?? The planets?
Click to expand...

Again, science doesn't know this - yet, and religion can't be proved.


captianstripes said:
Why didn't all monkeys become humans?
Click to expand...

You seem to believe that monkeys evolved straight into humans. This is not true. There are many different monkeys and apes. A good example would be that ones that lived on plains with long grass, some had the ability to stand on two-legs for short periods of time, giving them the ability to see predators. These ones survived. As they began to all be able to stand on two-legs, then they had better use of their front legs, to carry tools and weapons.

Actually, bi-pedal motion is one of the largest factors in human evolution


captianstripes said:
Why are their not 8 eyed Antelopes?
Click to expand...
Read me statement about prey animals above.


captianstripes said:
And where did those molecules that form the world we see today come from??
Click to expand...
Once more, science does not know this yet.

captianstripes said:
To answer all those questions their is only one logical answer!! God!   
Click to expand...

An infinite creature appearing from nowhere and creating everything with no reason to? Is that logical?



captianstripes said:
You can take an electron and put it with a nuetron and then add a proton and you have an atom but you cannot CREATE a neutron or a proton or a electron.
Click to expand...

Electrons and neutrons are made of even smaller particles recently discovered by science. So yes, you could make an electron and a neutron.
Click to expand...
 
"Oh look, it's thundering outside."

"GOD MUST BE ANGRY!"


:roll:


I'll respond later, when I'm back from passing my genes on.
 
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