Poll

Of what faith are you?

Creationism
97 (14.4%)
A power of some sort (reincarnation/superstitions/fortune telling/etc.)
29 (4.3%)
Agnosticism (evolution implied)
135 (20.1%)
Atheism (evolution implied)
257 (38.2%)
Agnostic or atheist and does NOT believe in evoltion
15 (2.2%)
Theistic evolution (a god guided evolution)
96 (14.3%)
I'm really not sure at this point...
43 (6.4%)

Total Members Voted: 652

Author Topic: Evolution or Creation?  (Read 238195 times)

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General_Specific

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Re: Evolution or Creation?
« Reply #705 on: October 25, 2006, 11:49:06 PM »
YOU WANT LOGIC!?  YOU WANT REASON!?  All right, logic and reason coming up!

First, I want you to read the Bible.  No, I don't mean flip it to Psalm 23 and read over that, I mean read the whole thing.  Now, I want you to name one problem with the Bible.  There are prophecies in the Bible that are now coming true today.  On top of this, there are a great many prophecies in the Bible that have already been completed.  Some people were pointing to the time when Israel ceased to exist and said that this proved the Bible wrong.  Guess what?  Israel's back.  All right, now them I'm done with the overview, I will proceed to defend two major points of the Bible against evolution.

The Beginning

So, here are the two views.  Note that I am fifteen, and so am susceptible to errors, but here is the basic premise of each theory.

Evolution

In the beginning, there was... dirt.  A small speck of dirt, floating in a vacuum that has become the universe of today.  And the dirt was packed into a tiny ball (some evolution text books say smaller than a period), and it was spinning... fast.  At an undetermined point, this spinning speck blew up, the Big Bang.  From this speck flew galaxies, solar systems, nebulae, so on, forming the universe.  Get this folks: it all came from a floating speck.  That was one heavy piece of dirt...  The Earth was at this time just a barren rocky planet like Mars, but it started to rain (where'd the water come from?), and the rock and water reacted to form a soup.  In this soup, a small microorganism formed (wow, that hardly ever happens).  Two microorganisms, in fact.  Two microorganisms that just happened to be of the same type, and at the same place (Do I need to go into odds, here?).  And the two microorganisms were the first living things, and soon there was daddy microorganism, mommy microorganism, and baby microorganism.  So the microorganisms grew and reproduced and got more complex.  Soon, the was a worm.  Then one day a worm had a baby snake.  Then the snake had a baby lizard.  And so on, evolving into ever-more-complicated creatures.  Wow.  Why doesn't that happen today?  Now after all that tongue-in-cheek poking at that ridiculous theory, to Creation.

The Bible
 
In the beginning, there was God, the all-powerful, all-knowing origin of all that is.  Before the concept of time was ever thought of by men (good reason, there weren't any), God started his magnificent work, creating the heavens and the Earth.  On the first day he said, "Let there be light."  And there was light.  He called the light day and the darkness night.  The second day, God separated the waters from the waters with a firmament.  On the third day, God created land and the trees.  Fourth day, He created the sun, moon, and stars.  Fifth day, He created birds and fish.  On the sixth day, God created the animals of the earth and his most precious creation, man.  On the seventh day, God rested.  He later gave the first man, Adam, a wife made from a rib from Adam's side.  Adam called this creation woman, which means, literally, from man.  The first people were happy until they broke the one rule that God had made:  They ate of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil.  The man realized now that he needed a covering, and tried to make clothes of leaves.  Then God performed the first sacrifice of a lamb, setting the standard for men's sacrifices thereafter, and made the people clothing of the lamb's wool.  They were banished from the garden and forced to make their food from working the ground.  They had children and the population of the Earth increased into what it is today in roughly siux thousand years, give or take a few thousand.

Basically, Evolution believes that our ancestors were microorganisms that evolved in a strange soup, whilst God says that man has been man since he was created.  If the ridiculousness of Evolution doesn't show you that it is wrong, I will present more surrounding the two stories as needed.

Last topic: The Flood

Evolution

There was no flood.

or
 
Maybe it was a local event.

The Bible

The Earth had become evil and had angered God to the point which the Bible says he regretted creating them.  There was one faithful man, however, named Noah.  The LORD called him to construct a boat in exact dimensions, even though there seems to never have been a boat constructed up to that point.  Noah had faith, however, and followed God's command.  When the boat was finished, the eight people (Noah, his wife, Shem, Hem, a Japheth and their wives) who would survive the flood climbed in.  God sent two animals of every unclean species to the boat (or ark), and seven of each clean species.  When all had entered, God (not Noah) shut the door of the ark.  Then it began to rain.  It rained very hard, and, at God's command, the fountains of the deep (apparently underground springs) opened.  The people outside the ark drowned, as the water reached higher than the highest mountain.  The ark finally came to rest on the mountains (notice plural) of Ararat.  The water receded finally, and the animals and people got off onto dry land.  God gave the rainbow as a sign that he would never totally submerge the earth again.  The survivors then repopulated the Earth.

Arguments

Pro-Bible:

Petroleum (it was created by the enormous pressure caused by the water on top of organic matter.  The pressure compressed the organic material into oil)
Fossils (How can evolutionists explain that there are fossils present on MT. Everest?  And that there was obviously a rapid burial?)

Pro-Evolution:

???

I rest my case.

Quote from: Kent Hovind
I can take on a whole room of evolutionists with one half of my brain tied behind my back, because I'm right, and they're wrong

-GS
« Last Edit: October 25, 2006, 11:51:20 PM by General_Specific »


:) Every once in a lifetime there comes something worth fighting for.  This lifetime's model is called Mount&Blade :)

General_Specific

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Re: Evolution or Creation?
« Reply #706 on: October 25, 2006, 11:58:48 PM »
Also, this 'What religion is right for you?' thing won't get you anywhere.  The only way to go anywhere is to find the truth and put your full faith therein.  The truth is the Bible.  Read it sometime.  You might learn something.


:) Every once in a lifetime there comes something worth fighting for.  This lifetime's model is called Mount&Blade :)

Aflac

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Re: Evolution or Creation?
« Reply #707 on: October 26, 2006, 12:01:33 AM »
YOU WANT LOGIC!?  YOU WANT REASON!?  All right, logic and reason coming up!
Evolution

In the beginning, there was... dirt.  A small speck of dirt, floating in a vacuum that has become the universe of today.  And the dirt was packed into a tiny ball (some evolution text books say smaller than a period), and it was spinning... fast.  At an undetermined point, this spinning speck blew up, the Big Bang.  From this speck flew galaxies, solar systems, nebulae, so on, forming the universe.  Get this folks: it all came from a floating speck.  That was one heavy piece of dirt...  The Earth was at this time just a barren rocky planet like Mars, but it started to rain (where'd the water come from?), and the rock and water reacted to form a soup.  In this soup, a small microorganism formed (wow, that hardly ever happens).  Two microorganisms, in fact.  Two microorganisms that just happened to be of the same type, and at the same place (Do I need to go into odds, here?).  And the two microorganisms were the first living things, and soon there was daddy microorganism, mommy microorganism, and baby microorganism.  So the microorganisms grew and reproduced and got more complex.  Soon, the was a worm.  Then one day a worm had a baby snake.  Then the snake had a baby lizard.  And so on, evolving into ever-more-complicated creatures.  Wow.  Why doesn't that happen today?  Now after all that tongue-in-cheek poking at that ridiculous theory, to Creation.

What the **** does that have to do with evolution?

Quote
evolution is the change in the heritable traits of a population over successive generations, as determined by shifts in the allele frequencies of genes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution

Edit: I think you mean the Big Bang scientific theory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_bang
« Last Edit: October 26, 2006, 12:05:41 AM by Aflac »

General_Specific

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Re: Evolution or Creation?
« Reply #708 on: October 26, 2006, 12:04:36 AM »
Read just about any science book from the late 1980s to mid 1990s.  You'll see where I come from.  That's another thing.  Evolutionists are changing their theories so often.  The earth has doubled its age every two years for the last decade according to evolutionists.


:) Every once in a lifetime there comes something worth fighting for.  This lifetime's model is called Mount&Blade :)

General_Specific

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Re: Evolution or Creation?
« Reply #709 on: October 26, 2006, 12:12:54 AM »
I think DaLagga has given up...
...Or maybe he decided that you guys are already hopeless, and so left rather than staying around and having no result for his work...


:) Every once in a lifetime there comes something worth fighting for.  This lifetime's model is called Mount&Blade :)

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Re: Evolution or Creation?
« Reply #710 on: October 26, 2006, 12:17:22 AM »
Oh, some of the people here are really convincing. Who wants to be my godfather?

Ingolifs

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Re: Evolution or Creation?
« Reply #711 on: October 26, 2006, 12:18:53 AM »
You see general specific, your understanding of evolution and cosmology and a whole load of other things is remarkably skewed.

First off, i've never heard before that the big bang was created from a fast spinning speck of dust.

Second, you don't understand how microbilogy works. Bacteria and single celled organisms are asexual. There are no 'mommy and daddy' bacteria. To reproduce, they split.
And also, just because something is incredibly unlikely to happen, doesn't mean that it will never happen. Creationists tend to forget just how long a time 4.6 billion years is. Run some incredibly unlikely process for that amount of time, and you're almost guaranteed to get some result.

And what makes you think that the weight of the water from the flood created crude petroleum oil? Because of plate tectonics, parts of the world that once were on the surface are sliding beneath all the time. Not to mention getting buried by the amount of space dust that falls on the earth each year. Plate tectonics also explains why there were fossils up in mt everest. The indian plate and the asian plate collided (don't quote me on this) sometime around 30 million years ago. The compression betwen these two masses of land is what we now know as the himalayas, a massive row of mountains, made of crumpled up earth crust. Before this happened, the area was under the water.

Oh, and that explanation for why fossils are there is much better than anything you can some up with, regarding creationism and the 'god did it to test our faith' argument.

Basically, i'd strongly advise you learning about what you're arguing against, as otherwise you won't convince anyone and will just look like a fool.

General_Specific

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Re: Evolution or Creation?
« Reply #712 on: October 26, 2006, 12:25:06 AM »
Oh, I'm perfectly willing to fight for Creation against evolution any day.  I know what evolution proposes.  The big bang may not be a spontaneous explosion now, but it used to be.  At first it was dust, now a singularity.  At first a few millions of years, now several billion.  And they basically believe that humans came from a bacteria.  And I ask you, why don't we see evolution today?  Oh, right, we're in the middle of one of those long periods of evolutionary rest again.  *Sigh*  I guess I'll never see evolution first hand.  Say, how long is evolution planning to be on vacation, anyway?  I want to see a dog with wings...

Oh, yeah, I've found the atheists bible!  www.en.wikipedia.org


:) Every once in a lifetime there comes something worth fighting for.  This lifetime's model is called Mount&Blade :)

holybandit

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Re: Evolution or Creation?
« Reply #713 on: October 26, 2006, 12:27:39 AM »
Dont argue like that Specific, The people on this forum are way smarter then you, and can form much better arguements against your book throwing techniques.
i fast run on hors and swing him HARD! but sword pass CLOSE! not hit! i get the sorrows and smash PC!!!

General_Specific

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Re: Evolution or Creation?
« Reply #714 on: October 26, 2006, 12:30:16 AM »
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Sure, I may be dumb compared to them, but I have God on my side.  That boosts my sides average IQ to... infinity.

Also, you only seem to be able to fight using mudslinging.  I actually put forward proof.  Try fighting fire with fire instead of mud...


:) Every once in a lifetime there comes something worth fighting for.  This lifetime's model is called Mount&Blade :)

Aflac

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Re: Evolution or Creation?
« Reply #715 on: October 26, 2006, 12:36:37 AM »
Quote
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Sure, I may be dumb compared to them, but I have God on my side.  That boosts my sides average IQ to... infinity.

Also, you only seem to be able to fight using mudslinging.  I actually put forward proof.  Try fighting fire with fire instead of mud...
Mud smothers fire...

Quote
Say, how long is evolution planning to be on vacation, anyway?  I want to see a dog with wings...

Oh, yeah, I've found the atheists bible!  www.en.wikipedia.org

Quote
...Or maybe he decided that you guys are already hopeless, and so left rather than staying around and having no result for his work...
:lol:
Quote
I am fifteen

Don't waste your time arguing with him.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2006, 12:38:38 AM by Aflac »

ArabArcher35

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Re: Evolution or Creation?
« Reply #716 on: October 26, 2006, 12:37:03 AM »
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Sure, I may be dumb compared to them, but I have God on my side.  That boosts my sides average IQ to... infinity.

Also, you only seem to be able to fight using mudslinging.  I actually put forward proof.  Try fighting fire with fire instead of mud...

This is the kind of zealot that does not listen to reason, yet firmly believes he is right. He has no proof, and he has nothing to back himself up aside from some old crusty book that was written about 300 years after Christ was born.
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General_Specific

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Re: Evolution or Creation?
« Reply #717 on: October 26, 2006, 12:37:22 AM »
Alright, prove it.


:) Every once in a lifetime there comes something worth fighting for.  This lifetime's model is called Mount&Blade :)

Ingolifs

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Re: Evolution or Creation?
« Reply #718 on: October 26, 2006, 12:38:00 AM »
Quote
Oh, right, we're in the middle of one of those long periods of evolutionary rest again.  *Sigh*  I guess I'll never see evolution first hand.  Say, how long is evolution planning to be on vacation, anyway?  I want to see a dog with wings...

where do you get all of this information from? Being a chemist studying for his bachelor's degree, with an active interest in science, i haven't heard of half these things you've been telling us. Perhaps all your misinformation comes from your creationist church preaching against evolution. They're especially the type to get their facts wrong.

Evolution is happening all the time, but it's a very slow process. after all, it did take around 3 billion years for single celled organisms to evolve into land animals. One cannot observe this kind of change in his own lifetime. Also, the theory of evolution has only been around for about 400 years, and that amount of time is also too short for any species to change appreciably.

Quote
I actually put forward proof.  
I haven't seen a single shred of proof whatsoever from you. Just statements and assertions. And so far i've debunked all of your arguments.

you're fighting an uphill battle my friend, your unquestionable devotion to this hypothetical god puts you at a serious disadvantage.

General_Specific

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Re: Evolution or Creation?
« Reply #719 on: October 26, 2006, 12:39:56 AM »
He has no proof, and he has nothing to back himself up aside from some old crusty book that was written about 300 years after Christ was born.
Tell that to your precious carbon dating... 


:) Every once in a lifetime there comes something worth fighting for.  This lifetime's model is called Mount&Blade :)