B Medieval [WB] Crusader - Way to expiation

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Lazyman said:
Omzdog said:
YourStepDad said:
if all goes well.
images

Exactly. The best answer is "soon" . Roma Surrectum 2 team said that for... 3 years iirc :grin:
And it was soooo worth it! :grin:

I'm certain this will be as well, take your time guys. :wink:
 
I'm so rushing, how about the dev team make a beta for now? and patch it to full version when finished? (I'm no specialist in these kind of things so mind me if I said anything wrong), so yeah, would it work?
 
Very nice mod. Thanks for your great work.

Also noticed the 19th century's German empire coat of arms (with the one of the Prussian kingdom at the centre and the collar of the Black Eagle Order) on this Teutonic horsecloth:
9412664abc1c.jpg
I understand that this is probably an attempt to reflect traditional Black Eagle of the Holy Roman Empire widely used in the Teutonic heraldry and flags, like the one of the Order Grandmaster:
1.png

But the one used in your case looks not very correct. Perhaps you can change it with something closer to this Reichsadler depiction?
2000px-Heiliges_R%C3%B6misches_Reich_-_Reichssturmfahne_vor_1433_%28Nimbierter_Adler%29.svg.png
It is much more accurate if you check historical sources. For example:
BP1v.jpg


Also as the mod is based on early 13th century's setup why some of the Hospitaliers wear the red surcoats and carry red flags (I noticed several beautiful screens with them)? I believe it was not before 1248 when Pope Innocent IV approved a red standard for the Hospitaliers. The only colour before it was black (with white cross).

Also this screen shows Greek name of Jesus (ІСХС) on the shield of Hospitalier knight:
c7babec38583.jpg
This is really odd for Catholic warrior. The Catholics used Latin Christograms (IHS - Iesus Hominum Salvator or INRI - Iesus Nazarenus, Rex Iudaeorum), defiantly not Greek.
 
Prince de Radzivil said:
Very nice mod. Thanks for your great work.

Also noticed the 19th century's German empire coat of arms (with the one of the Prussian kingdom at the centre) on this Teutonic horsecloth:
9412664abc1c.jpg
I understand that this is probably an attempt to reflect traditional Black Eagle of the Holy Roman Empire widely used in the Teutonic heraldry and flags, like the one of the Order Grandmaster:
1.png

But the one used in your case looks not very correct. Perhaps you can change it with something closer to this Reichsadler depiction?
2000px-Heiliges_R%C3%B6misches_Reich_-_Reichssturmfahne_vor_1433_%28Nimbierter_Adler%29.svg.png
It is much more accurate if you check historical sources. For example:
BP1v.jpg


Also as the mod is based on early 13th century's setup why some of the Hospitaliers wear the red surcoats and carry red flags (I noticed several beautiful screens with them)? I believe it was not before 1248 when Pope Innocent IV approved a red standard for the Hospitaliers. The only colour before it was black (with white cross).

Also this screen shows Greek name of Jesus (ІСХС) on the shield of Hospitalier knight:
c7babec38583.jpg
This is really odd for Catholic warrior. The Catholics used Latin Christograms (IHS - Iesus Hominum Salvator or INRI - Iesus Nazarenus, Rex Iudaeorum), defiantly not Greek.

Okay... but let's not be too anal about it. I think it would be nice in terms of variety and aesthetics if there are more diverse and colorful uniforms. Sometimes people can get too focused on historical accuracy and it makes the game a little bland/lacking. However, that's my opinion, and I respect your views. We'll leave it to the devs to decide. :wink:
 
I think thats an excellent point in that some people focus too much on historical accuracy. I personally would prefer to have a broader and more diverse selection of arms and armor. I mean you can take out the obvious one like having full plate armor or an arquebus in the 1200's. But i'd overlook maybe a certain style of greathelm that is anachronistic as it wasn't used until 30 years later. I'd say leave some of that stuff in for diversity, which is why i like a lot of the christian armies of this period. They were all kind of similar in arms and armor in that it was mostly arming swords and mail+surcoat, but a broad array of helmets and heraldry is what makes them cool looking imo.
 
Doc345 said:
I think thats an excellent point in that some people focus too much on historical accuracy. I personally would prefer to have a broader and more diverse selection of arms and armor. I mean you can take out the obvious one like having full plate armor or an arquebus in the 1200's. But i'd overlook maybe a certain style of greathelm that is anachronistic as it wasn't used until 30 years later. I'd say leave some of that stuff in for diversity, which is why i like a lot of the christian armies of this period. They were all kind of similar in arms and armor in that it was mostly arming swords and mail+surcoat, but a broad array of helmets and heraldry is what makes them cool looking imo.
I do not mean like to remove the small details mentioned (heraldry, colours, Christograms etc) but at last to replace them with the ones more historically creditable. If the time and resources allow developers to return to any of such fragments.
And I would be pleased to help with other similar stuff, of course if such help required at all.
 
Prince de Radzivil said:
Doc345 said:
I think thats an excellent point in that some people focus too much on historical accuracy. I personally would prefer to have a broader and more diverse selection of arms and armor. I mean you can take out the obvious one like having full plate armor or an arquebus in the 1200's. But i'd overlook maybe a certain style of greathelm that is anachronistic as it wasn't used until 30 years later. I'd say leave some of that stuff in for diversity, which is why i like a lot of the christian armies of this period. They were all kind of similar in arms and armor in that it was mostly arming swords and mail+surcoat, but a broad array of helmets and heraldry is what makes them cool looking imo.
I do not mean like to remove the small details mentioned (heraldry, colours, Christograms etc) but at last to replace them with the ones more historically creditable. If the time and resources allow developers to return to any of such fragments.
And I would be pleased to help with other similar stuff, of course if such help required at all.
dont even bother,the team does not care for accuracy
 
kuauik said:
dont even bother,the team does not care for accuracy

Ok now we have heard it for the hundredth time. Yes the mod is partial inaccurat, so what? This is a mod free of charge and independent of the original developer made by some cool guys in their leisure time. They make the mod as they wish. And if someone thinks that this is absolutely unacceptable he must not play the mod  :wink:.

@ the C - WtE team
Maybe you should add to the first post: "Probably not 100% historically accurate".
 
Naub24 said:
kuauik said:
dont even bother,the team does not care for accuracy

Ok now we have heard it for the hundredth time. Yes the mod is partial inaccurat, so what? This is a mod free of charge and independent of the original developer made by some cool guys in their leisure time. They make the mod as they wish. And if someone thinks that this is absolutely unacceptable he must not play the mod  :wink:.

@ the C - WtE team
Maybe you should add to the first post: "Probably not 100% historically accurate".
well i really dont care about it,its their choice,i just saved the guy some time,so he can do other things than asking questions
 
All this waiting has divided the fans into factions.
Just as religiously fanatic about their beliefs as our ancestors.

Also don't bother ripping on Kuauik.
A wise voice and a damn good texturer.
 
Maybe that particular soldier is a Greek who is fighting for the Teutones or whoever he's fighting for.

See,I just ended the argument!
 
jezza93 said:
Maybe that particular soldier is a Greek who is fighting for the Teutones or whoever he's fighting for.

See,I just ended the argument!
And this is an Orthodox capellanus of the Hospitaliers? :wink:
c5ecf1eac8a2.jpg

Really I do not insist on anything at all, neither I wish to start a new flame-war. And all of my small nitpicks will most probably stay unnoticed by the developers. This is their hard free work and they of course can absolutely legitimately add all the fantasy and semi-historical stuff they wish.
Just wanted to help because I am pretty sure that such small things still will be visually very noticeable for the people who have some basic knowledge in heraldry, the military orders' history or Christologic symbolism.
 
Prince de Radzivil, thank you for your comments, please feel free to comment further. We will try to take them into consideration, maybe not immediately, because the volume of work is very great, and alteration of some historically incorrect things take a while. Now we prefer to quickly finish all the factions in general, to bring closer the release of the mod. Therefore, in this rush, we do not always have time to explore some historical details. Maybe after the release of a mod, in patches, we'll fix some apparent inconsistencies too, if we remain at this strength. But in any case, some anachronisms like red surcoats,  we decided to keep because we do not make a historical reconstruction of a certain time period - we do the mod about the Crusaders and the Saracens and the Crusades as a whole.
Naub24 said:
Maybe you should add to the first post: "Probably not 100% historically accurate".
We can not do it because guy who started this topic is inactive now, but I can say it here : "This mod is not 100% historically accurate"
 
Thanks for the reply.
I understand that this is probably not rational to return now to the things already done when you invested so many time to finalize them. Nevertheless I will give you know if I would notice any similar symbolical or historical inaccuracies on the screens you are posting from time to time. Furthermore I will wait until the realise of your interesting mod.

Btw, I really like the historical Hospitaliers' black - it looks absolutely aesthetically fantastic and superior to other orders' traditional colours. But I understand your argument.

Regarding Christogram there are several interesting cases. Historically some of them indeed were used by the Orders but only Latin ones naturally. For example, the Tampliers used famous IHS Christ's monogram which was interpreted not only as traditional Iesus Hominum Salvator ("Jesus, Savior of Humanity") but also as In Hoc Signo (Vinces) ("In this sign you will win"; Greek "Ἐν τούτῳ νίκα" or Church Slavic "Сим победиши"). It is associated with the Cross symbol itself as there was Emperor Constantine who heard these words and saw the sign of Cross at the skies shown by God in 312. So you can use both IHS monogram and this motto (In hoc signo vinces) for the Crusaders. It will suit the Crusaders shields with Crosses well.

Also if you will need any similar help with heraldry, flags or symbols, or may be with the history of the Teutonic Order, please give me know via PM. You can write in Russian as this is my second native language.
 
No matter what they say, keep on. I mean, do you play the mod just 'cause the surcoat wasn't historical or do you play it for the quality of it? So far, I think this outmatches 1257 AD. Totally loved the siege formations on youtube the other day. Just keep on rocking !
 
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