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Suggestion:
Secondary weapon for Tornament Horse and Lance, and Tornament Javelin
(Dagger will surfice, or short sword)

Reason:
I had a lot problems in tornaments fustrating problems, especially in Praven where everyone is horse and lance and they no alternate weapons to collect...

Reason being is if your horse is badlywounded and no long has speed to couch damage, or if you dismounted, then all you can do is 0 damage, I have been in many duels where we both dismounted and spent like 30 mins doing NO damage to each other, till i realised it was was lost cause and was forced to quit the tornament, even tried fist and kicks, varying range, but nothing would increase damage above zero, really need a dagger or something for when you no mount so can still fight (and finish)
 
braven5 lance is a great weapon, but it needs precise aiming and timing. place your hits at the end of the strike. Same for all other weapons, well placed strike gives you great speed bonus, just need a bit practice. You know, there is no use in lance in close combat, you need some room. Sometimes I don't use couched mode at all:
1 - strike is longer, you are able to kick the lancer from horse  :grin:
2 - it "reloads" faster
Damage is a bit lower, but does it really matter, 150 damage or 80?  :smile:
Tournament javelins, make it polearm mode speed faster. 
monnikje Try to make your own weapons awaliable in tournament, like in knights the last battle. You know, it really sucks to spawn in the last tier footed with a bow against horseman with sword and shield. Especially with 30 bow proficiency and no power draw. In order to maintain some balance, increase level of all troops, like in PoP. That would be really nice.
 
monnikje said:
El-Diablito: Some nice suggestions there. Raising the betting amounts can indeed be an option, but I'm not sure I like people to use their own gear in tournaments. The way it is now, people have to rely on their own skills and not on the bonusses a good armor or bow give.

Not really, you rely on luck, that is to say, that you get a weapon that you have good skills in, where you start, what the other guy gets so on.

For example, you get a horse and a lance vs a guy with a two handed sword = lol win

You get a bow and arrow vs a guy with a shield and sword = godamnit!

You get a melee weapon vs a mounted guy = lolwin due to stupid ai

etc etc.

But if everyone uses their own weapons, you're suddenly only using the weapons you've been able to afford so far fighting vs opponents mainly mounted I'd imagine (probably best if all are) wielding excellent weapons and having heavy armour themselves.

It means that it becomes *much* more difficult to use tournaments to milk money, as you simply won't have a chance of winning one with your newbie gear, at the same time you don't get the entire luck/bad luck thing of the weapon comboes you start with, you make your own luck and if you win or not relies on the skills you have with your selected weapons.

Obviously, all the tournament opponents should be high tier troops like high tier swadian cavalry etc, no peasants or nord spear humpers.
 
Shapic said:
braven5 lance is a great weapon, but it needs precise aiming and timing. place your hits at the end of the strike. Same for all other weapons, well placed strike gives you great speed bonus, just need a bit practice. You know, there is no use in lance in close combat, you need some room. Sometimes I don't use couched mode at all:

I afraid you miss-understand, i talking about the tornament lance when you both been dismounted, the armor negates all of its damage, maybe if you have high power strike it still enough to get passed the armor ok, but when your still 3-4 or less it nothing more than tickle stick that cant do any damage at all, and i know about postiontioning to maximise the damage too, as I can still dismount them easy
 
braven5 said:
Shapic said:
braven5 lance is a great weapon, but it needs precise aiming and timing. place your hits at the end of the strike. Same for all other weapons, well placed strike gives you great speed bonus, just need a bit practice. You know, there is no use in lance in close combat, you need some room. Sometimes I don't use couched mode at all:

I afraid you miss-understand, i talking about the tornament lance when you both been dismounted, the armor negates all of its damage, maybe if you have high power strike it still enough to get passed the armor ok, but when your still 3-4 or less it nothing more than tickle stick that cant do any damage at all, and i know about postiontioning to maximise the damage too, as I can still dismount them easy

This is why I'd prefer if you used your own weapons (and the opponents were high tier troops also using their own weapons) in tournaments. No more of these "oh come on!" moments with weapon pairings etc.

If you go in with a rubbish weapon for the job, you'll only have yourself to blame.
 
I prefer the tornament weapons, but i dont think you can add your own weapons, becuase all tornament weapons are 'blunt' so they KO you and not kill you.... regular weapons would be lethal, so all damage you take will transfer to the next round
 
braven5 said:
I prefer the tornament weapons, but i dont think you can add your own weapons, becuase all tornament weapons are 'blunt' so they KO you and not kill you.... regular weapons would be lethal, so all damage you take will transfer to the next round

No you can, in many mods you enter the tournament with all your own gear (except chest armour which is team colour chain mail usually), weapons and horse. You cannot die in a tournament, you only K.O no matter what weapons used.

Go download AD 1257 and run a tournament there, they did and I think you'll find those tournaments aren't quite as easy as you'd think.

It's been done in mods since pre-warband and it's always made it more interesting in my opinion. After all, tournament fighters in the middle ages spent great efforts on affording good weaponry and armour for tournaments, these mount and blade tournaments where you're handed wooden swords and rags are just mind bogglingly historically inaccurate, knights fighting with wooden swords as if they were mere pages?
 
In real tornements tho you still dont use real weapons, sure they metal but they still blunted edges, only honor duels used lethal weapons, but ofc, even blunt weapons can be lethal so accidents was common.
 
braven5 said:
In real tornements tho you still dont use real weapons, sure they metal but they still blunted edges, only honor duels used lethal weapons, but ofc, even blunt weapons can be lethal so accidents was common.

Trust me, when you slam a nobleman over the helmet with a mace, it's as real as it gets.

People used to refer to specific tournaments as "That was the tournament where x or y was killed". The primary goal of tournaments before and up to the thirteenth century (it's around the late thirteenth century they begin to change if I recall correctly), tournaments were really mock battles fought mounted with the goal of capturing and ransoming enemy nobles, taking their arms and armour etc and selling it back to them (or someone else, if they couldn't afford it).

That said, this isn't a historic realism mod so historic accuracy comes in second place to what they want to achieve themselves in the game.
 
Ya but if you are able to choose the weapons you use in tournaments then you should win every tournament.  I mean i would just go in with a 2h sword and destroy everything.  This way it makes sure you are actually good with all the weapons, and the only class that you  prevents you from walking in and dominating the field is the archer class and that could be easily fixed by giving him a 1h sword, so i mean you should really be able to win almost all tournaments anyways
 
Also whats up with Swadia getting bow men, i feel like they should keep with cross bows i relize its too late at this point and i dont expect you to go and change it, but they always have the heaviest and most expensive soldiers and a feel like a Crossbow man fits that better than an archer
And i kinda feel that the sarannids are too cav based and need an elite heavy inf
 
- Let the players and units use their own equipment in the tournaments.
- Add secondary weapons in tournaments.
Negates each other :smile:
Some fresh ideas - increase troop levels, makes game more interesting. Troops that hung at the middle of troop tree will become completely useless though.
For standart bearers - make them increase party morale. Loading half of your inventory with food not to feed, but to keep your army together sucks. Now there will be some low level easy to kill troop, who can increase your party morale by 4 - 7 points each.
 
I like tournaments weapons just as they are. It would ruin the "tournament" feeling if everyone was in full armor with lethal weapons! Might as well be another battle on the world map.

There are a number of things you can do if you are stuck with the wrong weapon:
- Loot the unconcious: If you're in a big battle, chances are one of the fallen has the weapon you're looking for. Just avoid melee until you have a chance to go for it and pick it up
- Use the secondary weapon: Archers have a dagger, and javelinmen can switch to polearm mode using the 'X' key. I often use those secondary options and it works for me (and then you can loot the first enemy you stun for a better weapon)
- The new mod pack gives sh...loads of free weapon points for killing enemies. If you really suck with one weapon, why not spend some of those free points on it to get to a decent level?
- Finally, loosing IS an option. Where does it say that we are entitled to always win tournaments anyway?

That said, I guess you could give archers, 2-handers and lancers a one-hand sword to help balance people's gear without breaking the tournament feel. This way people could always fall back on their one-hand skill (or polearm for throwers) and do ok (but then, what about people without the one-hand skill...).

 
Crounch I don't like, when winning tournament is a matter of my luck/place where it is held.
By the way making some more "arena factions" like regular fighter and so on, making them 40-60 lvl will make tournament more interesting.
Now, if you spawn with bow on foot against mounted champion with shield/sword - the only solution is:
- get near the wall
- wait till his horse will hit the wall by 90 deg angle
- if still alive start shooting his back/stabbing it with a knife
the trick is to strafe a bit behind his back. This will keep ai stuck near the wall. THIS is not a tournament. And I dont want to lose, only coz I lack some power draw skill.
 
Shapic said:
Crounch THIS is not a tournament. And I dont want to lose, only coz I lack some power draw skill.

I see your point, but then how about this: add an option to the tournament pre-battle menu which allows you to choose your weapon set, among the ones available for this arena (or leave it as "random"). This way you could pick weapons that suit your fighting style, without breaking the tournament feel by introducing your own weapons and armor.
 
Crounch yes, this can be nice, but still, there is a horse. You know, spawning with lance on foot wont be good :sad:
The best one is to make it like in multiplayer, when you have to choose: lance and horse, but no defence, good archer, or simple warrior. But I don't know if someone will make it. Monnikje compiled some great mods into one for himself, he is not a big programmer. And idea with getting into tournament with your own wearpons is already included in knights the last battle.
 
Shapic said:
Crounch yes, this can be nice, but still, there is a horse. You know, spawning with lance on foot wont be good :sad:
The best one is to make it like in multiplayer, when you have to choose: lance and horse, but no defence, good archer, or simple warrior. But I don't know if someone will make it. Monnikje compiled some great mods into one for himself, he is not a big programmer. And idea with getting into tournament with your own wearpons is already included in knights the last battle.

Well I know nothing of how programming in warband works so I can't tell how difficult it would be, but you could automatically give a horse to the player if he selected "Lance" as a weapon. The menu could look like:

Choose your weapons for the next battle:
- Random weapons
- Horse, lance and shield
- 2-hand sword
- Bow and dagger

etc

If adding the possibility to go into the tournament with your own weapons, I think at least there should be an option to desactivate it.
 
Hey, speaking of of desactivating:
If not getting to tournament with your own wearpons, how about option that deactivates bow, or simpy gives you sword/shield instead of it?
 
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