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SCGavin said:
BoPoH said:
I know that IG clan have (or is it in past?) some problems with playing against Khergit's. But we and many other clans think they are just usual fraction with it's own weaknesses and strong points.
And as core faction they will stay in league, while random maps will be deleted from maplist to remove imbalanced combination khergits + open random plains.

We didn't like to play against Khergits. When we tried it, it wasn't much fun, but who knows that might have changed. That doesn't mean that we can't beat them. :wink:

Regarding the League: Probably this line ("12 - 14 November. Organizers make the schedule of the tournament, match regulations, and other details. Then schedule will be posted on forum.") is what I'm asking for, but I'd rather make sure. Who will decide when a rule has been violated? Who will create or change the rules?
I don't want to play in a League that is mainly lead by one person or clan, but rather want several persons from several clans with equal rights to decide how a league like this is run.


Dont worry  Gavin i invite several persons to be arbiters\moderators, so its not league of only one person :smile:
Its a first day of this subforum - things doesnt change in 1 minute

I think it will be 1-2 guys from several clans.  By the way i write in application form, that each clan can provide one person to be arbiter.
And i hope it will be able to add arbiter in each match.


So maybe first read the rules and other stuff, when start complaining? :\


And, other part - i think i create now topic where clan leaders can choose one varint of rules, they like most.
and we wil lchoose the best together, i hope
 
We, team RUM, start the league and take responsibility for the first tournament. In what will be a council of clan league-leaders of those clans that would actively participate in the tournament. We are for the same motives that led the Archer in the organization of the National Cup. Up to this point no one wanted to make a league. We decided to change this situation.
 
Black_Corsair said:
Dont worry  Gavin i invite several persons to be arbiters\moderators, so its not league of only one person :smile:
Its a first day of this subforum - things doesnt change in 1 minute

I think it will be 1-2 guys from several clans.  By the way i write in application form, that each clan can provide one person to be arbiter.
And i hope it will be able to add arbiter in each match.


So maybe first read the rules and other stuff, when start complaining? :\

I read the rules, but it seems you put the information I was looking for in the "List of clans", not in the "Battle rules". I don't have the time to read every sentence in this forum.
Also I was asking for clarification and making my opinion and preference known, not complaining.

Black_Corsair said:
And, other part - i think i create now topic where clan leaders can choose one varint of rules, they like most.
and we wil lchoose the best together, i hope

Good, that's what I hoped for!
 
SCGavin said:
Black_Corsair said:
Dont worry  Gavin i invite several persons to be arbiters\moderators, so its not league of only one person :smile:
Its a first day of this subforum - things doesnt change in 1 minute

I think it will be 1-2 guys from several clans.  By the way i write in application form, that each clan can provide one person to be arbiter.
And i hope it will be able to add arbiter in each match.


So maybe first read the rules and other stuff, when start complaining? :\

I read the rules, but it seems you put the information I was looking for in the "List of clans", not in the "Battle rules". I don't have the time to read every sentence in this forum.
Also I was asking for clarification and making my opinion and preference known, not complaining.

ok sry for  this word, maybe i misunderstood u...
 
BoPoH said:
There are few tactics that help you against khergits on that map with resp at any side.
They require some skill to be to done, but they exist. Not 100% guaranty for win, but not a 100% defeat as you say.
All is in players hands.

I suppose running hard to the left wall of the map would be a tactic to not get surrounded. Please name one other tactic that you can use against khergits in the situation I described (your spawn is the one close to the broken bridge and you fight against khergits).

 
Most effective tactic -  which allows to move in any point of map.

60% archers, 40% cava.

Cava dont attacking, it only covers archers from khergo-rush.


It was tested many times. On random maps khergits stil lhave advantage, but on other maps, even FbtR  this tactics works.
 
Black_Corsair said:
Cava dont attacking, it only covers archers from khergo-rush.

And then what? where do you take your archers? What prevents the khergits to just shoot your cav while its trying to move your archers? Khergits are always 100% cavalry and you have 40% so how do you prevent them from rushing or surrounding you if they wanted to?

 
Morii said:
Black_Corsair said:
Cava dont attacking, it only covers archers from khergo-rush.

And then what? where do you take your archers? What prevents the khergits to just shoot your cav while its trying to move your archers? Khergits are always 100% cavalry and you have 40% so how do you prevent them from rushing or surrounding you if they wanted to?


Hm, your archers trying to shoot khergo archers, your cav cover archers from khergo lancers Oo
Its not my crazy idea, it was invented first by 22nd clan, and then tested many times by them and RS too...


On NC matches we won on ruined fort as sarranids vs khergits vs Chezh, and later on same map as swads vs khergits  vs Italy. ruined fort is rather open map. And you cant say that these teams are noobish or smthng that, but still we found ways to kill their khergits.


I m not here to teach everyone with basis of tactics, it s a thing which should be trained inside of  clans.

As i see, not every clan know what to do vs horse archers, thats the problem, why we are disscussing this...  :sad:
 
Consider removing the flags as an option from the battle outcome. Instead, each team would focus on actually making casualties on the other side before the timer ran out. I think this would be better than having the flags screwing with your battle tactics. Perhaps Im wrong, but there it is.
 
Black_Corsair said:
As i see, not every clan know what to do vs horse archers, thats the problem, why we are disscussing this...  :sad:

Even we know how to counter Khergits. Be it by using Khergits ourself or by shooting them to bits with Vaegirs on Random Steppes. We just don't enjoy the unpredictability of it and the fact (or opinion) that Khergits can be much harder to counter when used efficiently. No need to imply that we can't handle ourselves against them (unless I completely misunderstood you).
 
SCGavin said:
Black_Corsair said:
As i see, not every clan know what to do vs horse archers, thats the problem, why we are disscussing this...  :sad:

Even we know how to counter Khergits. Be it by using Khergits ourself or by shooting them to bits with Vaegirs on Random Steppes. We just don't enjoy the unpredictability of it and the fact (or opinion) that Khergits can be much harder to counter when used efficiently. No need to imply that we can't handle ourselves against them (unless I completely misunderstood you).

Any faction could be harder to counter if enemy use it efficienty, right?
 
Black_Corsair said:
Morii said:
Black_Corsair said:
Cava dont attacking, it only covers archers from khergo-rush.

And then what? where do you take your archers? What prevents the khergits to just shoot your cav while its trying to move your archers? Khergits are always 100% cavalry and you have 40% so how do you prevent them from rushing or surrounding you if they wanted to?


Hm, your archers trying to shoot khergo archers, your cav cover archers from khergo lancers Oo
Its not my crazy idea, it was invented first by 22nd clan, and then tested many times by them and RS too...


On NC matches we won on ruined fort as sarranids vs khergits vs Chezh, and later on same map as swads vs khergits  vs Italy. ruined fort is rather open map. And you cant say that these teams are noobish or smthng that, but still we found ways to kill their khergits.


I m not here to teach everyone with basis of tactics, it s a thing which should be trained inside of  clans.

As i see, not every clan know what to do vs horse archers, thats the problem, why we are disscussing this...  :sad:

Don't really appreciate the condescending tone there, but I'll focus on the discussion instead of that.

I'm discussing this with both you here and with BoPoH in pm's. And I have yet to hear a satisfactory tactic that doesn't give the khergits a clear advantage. You can talk about skill all you want, I'll talk about what is fair for all clans.

The situation you describe is based on the fact that khergits will actually use lancers and not all go horsearchers. If the khergits dismount in for example the woods, leaving their horses near the lake, then take your slow moving cav as a priority and shoot those easy targets and kill their horses, while your archers are trying to shoot the khergit archers who have cover behind trees while your archers either have almost none at the fences or some at their spawn but there they can't shoot many at the same time. Your horses will die and you will have 100%archers against 50% archers and some near useless dismounted cav. The khergits mount their horses, surround you, end of story.

You could try to move all you troops behind your spawn to force the khergits to go wide on both sides and in that case you might have a fair chance to win, however that would build on the fact that the khergits would actually attack in such a case. If they wait for the flags they have their advantage back in most cases. Another thing you could try is to move your troops to the ruins as soon as you see the khergits are dismounting in the woods, however the khergits can either remount fast and rush or just shoot your still quite easy targets from the woods.

Don't talk to me about basic tactics and tell me honestly; was RS going to choose khergits on Field by the River?
 
The situation you describe is based on the fact that khergits will actually use lancers and not all go horsearchers. If the khergits dismount in for example the woods, leaving their horses near the lake, then take your slow moving cav as a priority and shoot those easy targets and kill their horses, while your archers are trying to shoot the khergit archers who have cover behind trees while your archers either have almost none at the fences or some at their spawn but there they can't shoot many at the same time. Your horses will die and you will have 100%archers against 50% archers and some near useless dismounted cav. The khergits mount their horses, surround you, end of story.

u commander must be very stupid if he do this situation ^))) Learn how to play against khergits. We have repeatedly proved that against khergits can win tactic for random plants. and not the fact that your opponent can play as khergits
 
we can play against Khergits on the Field by the River at any time with any clan, though Norden, although Vaegirsi:smile: we will not knowingly trained and something we are able.
 
NeuD.ef said:
u commander must be very stupid if he do this situation ^))) Learn how to play against khergits. We have repeatedly proved that against khergits can win tactic for random plants. and not the fact that your opponent can play as khergits

Please, instead of indirect insults, tell me why this is stupid and how you would counter it with vaegirs.

As you see I stay civil and basically keep asking the same questions to which you still haven't answered me. The only answer I've actually had came from Gavin who pointed out that you can use khergits to counter khergits.
 
I Must agree with Morii on many things but i dont mind more than much if they are in or not , but i'll say to let decide all the leaders of the clans that joined or will join , And the argument should be , Khergits should be usable as a faction  "yes "or"no"?. and not a thing like this
1)  New variant (current one) - 1 map can be played only once, clan can choose one faction only once for match. Khergits allowed, random maps forbidden.

My opinion - rather good variant. All factions are allowed, its nice, u cant use khergits on random maps - nice too. 

Bad thing -  if clan choose nords on snowy village, other clan can easily take khergits and beat nords. And on second map they will take Village map to avoid the counter-choosing of khergits.

2) No khergits, random maps allowed. 

Bad thing - one faction is completely forbidden. I think its not well 

3) Nations Cup variant.

Khergits allowed, random maps allowed,  and clans switch factions after 5 rounds. And admins choose maps and factions instead of clns itself.

Good thing - that all clans are in rather equal conditions.
But as for me - i dont like this variant. This variant destroy clan's individuality, they HAVE TO play mps\factions, which they maybe dont like completely. While for example Eihenjar are true nords.
Where its evident in my opinion that 1 or even 2 options on 3 are not plausible.So it looks like from my eyes that you force to choose that specific option.

 
Just a underlinement, you are supposing that the whole enemy team is skilled at using horse archery effectively, which is pretty hard.
 
Harlequin_ITA said:
Just a underlinement, you are supposing that the whole enemy team is skilled at using horse archery effectively, which is pretty hard.
Well in truth in my opinion you dont need big skills to use horse archery effectively , even a newbie player can be very effective with it  i've seen people that dosent even know how to use a sword or how to manual block , having K/D score like 25-0  in full public servers with good players on on , with  khergits horse archers.
 
Lord Willy said:
Harlequin_ITA said:
Just a underlinement, you are supposing that the whole enemy team is skilled at using horse archery effectively, which is pretty hard.
Well in truth in my opinion you dont need big skills to use horse archery effectively , even a newbie player can be very effective with it  i've seen people that dosent even know how to use a sword or how to manual block , having K/D score like 25-0  in full public servers with good players on on , with  khergits horse archers.
Just remember RUM-ITA match.
 
Harlequin_ITA said:
Lord Willy said:
Harlequin_ITA said:
Just a underlinement, you are supposing that the whole enemy team is skilled at using horse archery effectively, which is pretty hard.
Well in truth in my opinion you dont need big skills to use horse archery effectively , even a newbie player can be very effective with it  i've seen people that dosent even know how to use a sword or how to manual block , having K/D score like 25-0  in full public servers with good players on on , with  khergits horse archers.
Just remember RUM-ITA match.
And? They had superior crosbowmen , but i dont get what you want to mean with this.and ruined fort is everything but not an open plain map.
 
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