B Medieval [WB] Warband: Total Realism, 1148 A.D. - (MAPPER needed)

How do you feel about the name of the mod?

  • Its great and should stay the same.

    Votes: 13 38.2%

  • Its not so great, but I don't mind it.

    Votes: 8 23.5%

  • I don't like it, and here is my opinion (please post suggestions).

    Votes: 3 8.8%

  • I would like if it changed to 1148 - The Siege of Damascus

    Votes: 10 29.4%
  • Total voters
    34

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Note: Arabic organizational linguistics are notoriously tricky, as is pretty much all pre-modern military organizational structures. Jund is used in a wide variety of applications but often has an association with a model of the early Arab armies with paid Muslim soldiers. While that payment could be via iqta or cash or tax exemptions, I'd appropriate Jund to be paid with cash, while Muqta' is paid with a fief.

For example, Matthew Gordon in the book "The breaking of a thousand swords" page 40, suggests "It is likely that by the early ninth century the composition of the Jund had been transformed from an army of free arab warriors to paid, presumably non-Arab soldiers". We could use the term Murtaziqa instead, since it means "regularly paid soldier"

So the question becomes "Which is superior to the other? The feudal landholder whose service is exchanged for land or the soldier whose service is exchanged for money?"

However you decide to tier them, apply it to the Fatimids own Jund/Muqta retroactively. Also I forgot to include the 'un in Muqta'un since I saw Muqta' by itself. It sounds like Muqta'un means "Military tax-farmers/military tax holders", so you can re-add the 'un in if it fits.

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ABBASID LOCAL UNITS
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Representing the sedentary Arab civilizations of the Tigris and Euphrades, such as Baghdad, Basra and so on. I'd have them only represent the cities, with villages being either Bedouin or Kurdish (or Abbasid local if it's a village representing a large town/city)
Tier 1) 'Amma Al-Iraq (p. 'Awamm Al-Iraq): Common Arabs of the cities/villages
You could replace Arab with a word for Mesopotamia

Tier 2) Muttatawwi'a Al-Iraq Spearman (Mutawwa'în Al-Iraq Spearmen): Volunteer spearmen
They are the same as the Ayyarun, I just couldn't 'accept' a bunch of bandit thugs being firm spearmen. Muttatawwi'a is a bit hard to take in that regard, but not as hard.

Tier 2) Ayyar Al-Iraq Infantry (pl. Ayyarun Al-Iraq Infantry): Lowest class street thugs/ruffians
No armor, a few helmets but mostly turbans, shields and mix of hand weapons (knives, daggers, old swords, axes, maces/clubs, spears)

Tier 2) Ayyar Al-Iraq Skirmisher (pl. Ayyarun Al-Iraq Skirmishers): Lowest class street thugs/ruffians
No armor, a few helmets but mostly turbans, bows and sidearms.

Tier 3) Hadath Al-Iraq Spearman (pl. Ahdath Al-Iraq Spearmen): Lower to Middle Class Militiamen
Soft armored and occassionally helmeted spearmen

Tier 3) Hadath Al-Iraq Infantry (pl. Ahdath Al-Iraq Infantry): Lower to Middle Class Militiamen
Soft armored and occassionally helmeted

Tier 3) Hadath Al-Iraq Archer (pl. Ahdath Al-Iraq Archers): Lower to Middle Class Militiamen
Soft armored and occassionally helmeted archers, with bow and sidearm and maybe a shield

Tier 4) Rammah Al-Rayyis Al-Medina (pl. Rammahun Al-Ru'asa Al-Medina)
Literally "Chiefs", being the upper class citizenry, such as influencial neighborhood leaders, descendants of Muhammad or the Abbasids, wealthy merchants, and so forth. The term is meant to translate as "Spearmen of the upper class", since I didn't like Rayyis Al-Medina Spearmen" sounded. You can use that term for the English nomenclature of the mod, though. They'll wear mail/lamellar/scale, spear, shield. I'm also not sure Rammahun is the plural form.

Faris Al-Jund Al-Iraq (pl. Fursan Al-Ajnad Al-Iraq): Iraqi Arab hired cavalrymen
These represent the non Bedouin city, town, and maybe village Arab cavalrymen who served as professional warriors. Usama Ibn Munqidh is the kind of man these fellows would be. Again, I'm not sure if the Jund are superior or inferior to the Muqta'.

Faris Al-Muqta' Al-Iraq (pl. Fursan Al-Muqta' Al-Iraq): Iraqi Arab feudal cavalrymen
These represent the non bedouin city, town, and village Arab horsemen who are paid for their service with iqta'. Usama Ibn Munqidh might be one of these kinds of guys, too. Again, not sure if they'd be inferior or superior to the Jund.

The following units I think we should axe, because of double redundancy with the Kurdish roster:

Tier 4) Jund Al-Rayyis Al-Medina (pl. Ajnad Al-Ru'asa' Al-Medina)
Literally "Chiefs", being the upper class citizenry, such as influencial neighborhood leaders, descendants of Muhammad or the Abbasids, wealthy merchants, and so forth. The term is meant to translate as "Warriors/soldiers of the upper class", since I didn't like how "Rayyis Al-Medina Infantry" Sounded. You can use that term for the English nomenclature version of the mod, though. They'll wear mail/lamellar/scale, sword and shield

Tier 4) Rumat Al-Rayyis Al-Medina (Pl. Rumat Al-Ru'asa' Al-Medina)
Literally "Chiefs", being the upper class citizenry, such as influencial neighborhood leaders, descendants of Muhammad or the Abbasids, wealthy merchants, and so forth. The term is meant to translate as "Archers of the upper class", without knowing what the singular of Rumat (Archer) is. You can use "Rayyis Al-Medina Archers" for the english nomenclature version of the mod, though. They'll wear mail/lamellar/scale, bow, shield, sword.

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ABBASID MERCENARY UNITS
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The usual selection of Bedouin, Turkomans, Kurds, Armenians. There could be redundancy here with equivalent troops found in the local roster, but that's fine.

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ABBASID SPECIAL UNITS
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What I'd like to suggest is to make the Kurdish tree be used in Mosul and Kurdish villages (Whether they are held by Zengid, Seljuk, or Abbasid), and the Bedouin tree used perhaps for desert villages in Mesopotamia. Villages representing large towns can use the regular Abbasid roster.

If we can get Naffatun, that'd be awesome.

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Tier 2 Quality) Mamluk Al-Amir [Al-Rūmī]: Amir's Armenian/Greek Mamluks
Medium Horse Archers. You can include or not include the Rumi associative title - Up to you.

Tier 3 Quality) Mamluk Al-Khalifah [Al-Rūmī]: Caliph's Royal Mamluks.
Heavy Horse Archers. You can include or not include the Rumi associative title - Up to you.

Tier 4 Quality) Mamluk Al-Khawass Al-Khalifah [Al-Rūmī]: Caliph's Elite Royal Mamluks
Superheavy Horse Archers. Representing the personal bodyguard or private corps of the top notch Mamluks. You can include or not include the Rumi associative title - Up to you.

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[Represents the bedouin auxiliaries, and would be recruited by NPCs in regional towns and/or villages]

Tier 1) Badawi Al-Qabili (pl. Badu Al-Qaba'il): Bedouin tribesmen
Could apply a descriptive term of 'youths' or some such, nor am I sure how they'll be equipped. Perhaps as unarmored shoddy archers

Tier 2) Badawi Al-Qabaili Spearman (pl. Badu Al-Qaba'il Spearmen): Bedouin Spearmen
Unarmored spearmen, possibly mix swords and spears or be awesome if we do spears and swords both guaranteed

Tier 3) Faris Al-Badawai Al-Qabaili (pl. Fursan Al-Badu Al-Qaba'il): Bedouin Horsemen
Unarmored lance, shield, and sword horsemen

Tier 4) Faris Al-Badawai Al-Sheikh (pl. Fursan Al-Badu Al-Shuyukh): Bedouin Nobles
Lightly armored (or unarmored with helmet) lance, shield, and sword horsemen.

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[Represents the tribal kurds recruited by the Abbasids. Directly recruitable from Mosul and Kurdish villages (Even for Zengids/whomever holds Mosul), but could also be found from the NPC Special recruitment system you have in mind elsewhere in Arabia]

1) Qabili Al-Kurd (pl. Qaba'il Al-Akrad): Kurdish tribesman
Qabili seems to be tribal people or tribesman in singular, qaba'il plural for tribesmen or tribes. These are Kurdish youths, old men, poor tribesmen and so forth. Probably javelins, short spears, shields, no armor.

2) Muttatawwi'a Al-Kurd Infantry  (pl. Mutawwa'în Al-Akrad Infantry): Kurdish volunteer infantry
No armor/Light armor (quilted or leather lamellae), shield, javelins, swords.

2) Muttatawwi'a Al-Kurd Archer (pl. Mutawwa'în Al-Akrad Archers): Kurdish volunteer bowmen
No armor, bow, sword, probably no shield

3) Ghazi Al-Kurd Infantry (pl. Ghawazi Al-Akrad Infantry): Kurdish 'professional' jihadists
Light armor (quilted/leather lamellae), sword, javelins, shield

3) Ghazi Al-Kurd Archer (pl. Ghawazi Al-Akrad Archers): Kurdish 'professional' jihadists
Light armor (quilted/leather lamellae), sword, bow, maybe shield

4) Murtaziqa Al-Kurd Infantry (pl. Murtaziqa Al-Akrad Infantry): Paid professional Kurdish infantry
Mail or metal lamellae, shield, sword, javelins

4) Murtaziqa Al-Kurd Archer (pl. Murtaziqa Al-Akrad Archers): Paid professional Kurdish Bowmen
Mail or metal lamellae, shield, sword, bows

Faris Al-Muttatawwi'a Al-Kurd (pl. Fursan Al-Mutawwa'in Al-Kurd): Kurdish religious irregular horsemen
Unarmored/leather lamellae, I am not sure how they should fight but I am thinking javelin and shield and spear/sword for the Muttatawwi'a

Faris Al-Jund Al-Kurd (pl. Fursan Al-Ajnad Al-Akrad): "Hired Kurdish Horsemen"
I don't know if Kurds factored into the Jund system you found amongst Arabs. However Jund in a singular, organizational sense often tends to imply 'soldiers' on some sort of payroll. It's likely a Muqta would be part of a Jund, but in our case I'd appropriate Jund to be paid with cash rather than with a fief. So the question is: would hired soldiers be superior to or inferior to a feudal soldier (muqta')? Switch them out here, and with the Fatimids based on your decision.

Faris Al-Muqta' Al-Kurd (pl. Fursan Al-Muqta Al-Akrad): "Feudal Kurdish Horsemen"
I don't know if Kurds had iqta's supplied by the Caliph of Baghdad. But I think it's safe to say they probably did? The question then becomes if a feudal landed aristocrat is superior or inferior to a soldier on a fixed payroll. Switch them out here and with the Fatimids based on your decision

Both cavalry will use swords, spears/lances and shields. Both will be on the lighter side, the lower class probably being quilted(?) and the higher class wearing mail, but not double mail kazaghands or scale or lamellar.


Without sounding rude or like I want to leave WTR (I don't/won't), but is there anything else I need to do roster/research wise before I move on to start on L'Outremer's rosters?
 
@Montaser, glad to hear that :wink:

@Sahran

I love the stream line approach of this.
About the Kurds, we could have them only be recruitable in the North of Iraq as you said. Seeing that I will be doing France/England/Italies the only real research left unfinished is the Iberian guys. I do recall you have a post about some of them, but I didn't really see it clearly; would the Iberian factions be clones of each other? Also I don't know if you had within their special troops any Crusaders, as some did go to Iberia and help out against the Mwahiddun.

If you would like to completely redo/finish Outremer, then I'll go ahead and do Iberians as well, or maybe see what the 1144 team had done. We could even ask Mansur to do some research, since he seems very knowledgeable about the area.
 
I completed the stuff for the Almoravid's Andalusians, as well as the Castillian/Aragonese (Thanks to Cesar's help for Aragon, and corrections in Castille).

Castille/Aragon: http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,133403.msg3716501.html#msg3716501

Aragon would have perhaps a few Templars/Hospitaller's thrown in there, since I know they relied on them while Castille could just rely on the indigenous Orders. But I think that's something Cesar would be more knowledgeable on, so you might want to have him confer his research for the Iberian orders. Navarre just has Castille's troops with "De navarra" replacing De Castille for any units that use that title. Portugal is a tricky case, but I guess I can try and come up with something for them. I suppose I also need to re-fix the Outremers in this mod so they follow the 4 tier system that the Iberians, and Italics follow.

I'll also probably just do a picture for North Italians and do a pic of the South Italians, so we have an easy reference to it.
 
Outremer Local/Regular Troops
Special troops & Mercenaries are same as before


South Italian (Norman) Local/Regular Troops
Special troops and Mercenaries are same as before. Normans get better ranged than the North Italians, but their lower class (tier 1 and 2) horses are inferior, and their infantry are not as good. I'd like to give them crossbowmen but I have no damn clue how or where to put them in, so just give the Normans some Stipendiarii Crossbowmen (both the lower class unarmored ones, and higher class in gambesons and mail shirts).


[FROM VILLAGES]


1) Villanus de Mezzogiorno (pl. Villani de Mezzogiorno) - Serfs of Southern Italy
Usual serfdom troops, though they might be a touch better off than normal (as in they might get shields, god forbid!)

2) Villanus Pedes (pl. Villani Pedites) - Serf Melee infantry
Unarmored, with helmets, shields, sidearms

2) Villanus Skirmisher (pl. Villani Skirmishers) - Serf light infantry
Unarmored, helmets optional, with shields, sidearms, javelins

3) Serviens de Mezzogiorno Pedes (pl. Servientes de Mezzogiorno Pedites) - Servants/sergeants of southern italy
Lightly armored (gambesons and such, maybe a mix of no armor), helmets, shields, sidearms

4) Serviens Loricati Pedes (pl. Servientes Loricati Pedites) - Armored sergeants
Mail armor, helmet, shields, sidearms


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[FROM CITIES]

1) Retrobannum Pedes (pl. Retrobannum Pedites) - General levy of free men
Usual levy troops. Shields are probably guaranteed but no helmets, poor weapons

2) Civis Minor de Mezzogiorno Spearman (pl. Civis Minores de Mezzogiorno Spearmen): Lower class citizenry of Southern Italy
Unarmored spearmen with helmets, shields, spears

3) Civis Maior de Mezzogiorno Spearman (pl. Cives Maiores de Mezzogiorno Spearmen): Middle Class citizenry of Southern Italy
Lightly armored spearmen

4) Civis Nobilis de Mezzogiorno Spearman (pl. Cives Nobiles de Mezzogiorno Spearmen): Upper class citizenry of Southern Italy
Medium armored spearmen

Tier 3) Grifone de Siculus Archer (pl. Grifoni de Siculorum Archers) - Greek Sicilian Archer
Greek Sicilians/South Italians were apparently called "Grifones", and performed military service along with Lombards and Muslims for the Normans. They'll probably be unarmored, though they could get light armor. The big difference'll be they get shields and recurve bows - not as good as the Sicilian-Muslim archers, but easier to access for the player.


Tier 2 Quality) Miles Pro Commune
What you expect. Communal Knights, although I am not sure if the lighter history of Southern Italy cavalrymen will make them unarmored, lightly armored, or with mail


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[FROM CASTLES]

Tier 1) Serviens Eques (pl. Servientes Equites) de Lombards - (South) Lombard Mounted Sergeants
  Since the Monreale Cathedral depicts cavalry completely unarmored, and there's references to the Lombard Feudal system giving light cavalry, these guys are completely unarmored cavalry (Probably some helmets for measure) with shield, spear, sidearm, maybe javelins.

Tier 2) Vavassin Eques (pl. Vavassini Equites) - "Lesser Vassal Horsemen"
  It's always tricky to bridge the gap between sergeant and knight, and I'll admit I couldn't find a ton of resources to back up the references to Vavassini (Though I did a bit more for Vavassor, which is the superior Knights at tier 3 and 4). Either way, they'll be clad in gambesons and such.

Tier 3) Miles Minores de Normanni / Normanni Miles Minores / Secundi Miles de Normanni - "Junior Knights"
  The second top echelon knights. Clad in mail hauberks of the 12th century and some of a more dated 11th century design.

Tier 4) Miles Majores de Normanni / Normanni Miles Majores / Primi Miles de Normanni - "Top Knights"
  The top echelon knights. Clad in the best mail hauberks of the 12th century and some with scale or lamellar atop it in a Byzantine/Arab style.



SICILO-NORMAN SPECIAL UNITS:


Same as before. The one change I want to do is this:

Make Rammah not upgrade into anything, it'll be only one tier.

Create a new unit, "Jund Al-Siqilliyya Rajjala", which will be unarmored swordsmen/axemen (prob with javelins) who will upgrade into the "Jund Al-Siqilliyya Al-Khass Rajjala" (who are armored swordsmen/axemen with javelins).

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North Italian Local/Regular Troops
Mercenaries are the usual Stipendiarii/Solidarius mercenaries. Crossbowmen and horsemen should feature most numerously, but spearmen too. Better (if not the best in Europe, or the mod?) infantry than South Italians. Horsemen vis-a-vis the Normans are heavier in tier 1 and 2, the same at tier 3, lighter at tier 4 (just mail hauberks vs mail with lamellar or scale)

There's no Special Units for the North Italians.


Split into City troops and rural (castle and villages) troops. I've been more restrictive with crossbows, which I know we talked about earlier but here's my reasoning:

Arms and Armor of the Crusading Era Primary resource Illustrations:
1) Depiction of an archer with recurve bow (no reason to think saracen) circa 1200 AD
2) Depiction of a 1106-1110 AD archer, looking a touch saracen (from modena Italy) with a simple bow that could even be a longbow
3) Depiction dated to 1150-1170 AD from Parma Italy, featuring recurve composite bows and troops (not wielding them) who look Italic/South Italic
4) The first case of a crossbow depiction is from 1340 AD

For comparison sake, I see depictions of Crossbowmen in:
1) Late 13th century Aragonese
2) Late (1197 AD) Navarre
3) Early 12th century Aragon

Now obviously crossbows came into use before 1340, but Osprey's book on the Medieval Italian Armies from 1000 to 1300 suggests that they grew in numbers in the 13th century, being rarer (and in some cases nonexistent) in the 12th. The lack of illustrations could be due to an Italian bias against ranged weaponry, as the impression given is a very Hoplite-esque culture (Fighting is manly and a duty of any manly free citizen, and only cowards fight with ranged weapons). I think the preponderance of crossbows in Italy is based off an association of their more famous 13th and 14th century periods.

So I've given one crossbowmen at the very end of the roster, and if you want better xbows you'll hire the mercenary version (who'll get mail armor). See this for another example of xbows seeming to be rarer in our period: http://books.google.com/books?id=he_nAkUEs7EC&pg=PA10&dq=Southern+italy+crossbow&hl=en&ei=a15CTd65CsWblgeB9vDmDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CFIQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=Southern%20italy%20crossbow&f=false

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Contado Villanus (pl. Contadi Villani): Countryside serfs/peasants
Crap! Nuff said!

Contado Pedes (pl. Contadi Pedites): Serf/peasant melee infantry
Unarmored, maybe a few helmets for the lucky, with sidearm and shield. When I say sidearm I really mean serfy stuff - pickaxes, shovels, axes, scythes, ect.

Contado Skirmisher (pl. Contadi Skirmishers): Serf/peasant light infantry
Unarmored, no helmets (or limited), javelins, sidearms, maybe shields

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Tier 1) Retrobannum Pedes: General levy of the poorest citizens
I'm not too happy with this term, but it's the best that comes to mind to represent the poorest citizenry usually excluded from militia service (now seen as a prestigious honor), or given to supporting roles in construction/transportation rather than fighting. So levies of the poorest class

Tier 2) Civis Minor Spearman (pl. Cives Minores Spearmen) - Light Spears
No armor, with shield, spear, helmet

Tier 2) Civis Minor Archer (pl. Cives Minores Archers) - Light Bow
No armor, with bow (self bow/simple bow), sidearm, no helmet

Tier 3) Civis Maior Spearman (pl. Cives Maiores Spearmen) - Light-Medium Spears
Soft armor, with shield, spear, helmet

Tier 3) Civis Maior Pedes (pl. Cives Maiores Pedites) - Light-medium Infantry
Soft armor, shield, sidearm, helmet

Tier 3) Civis Maior Archer (pl. Cives Maiores Archers) - Light-medium archers
Soft armor and no armor, helmet, composite bow, sidearm, small shield

Tier 3) Civis Maior Crossbowman (pl. Cives Maiores Crossbowmen) - Light Crossbows
Soft armor and no armor, helmet, crossbow, sidearm

Tier 4) Civis Nobilis Spearman (pl. Cives Nobiles Spearmen) - Medium Spearmen
Mail armor, helmet, shield, spear

Tier 4) Civis Nobilis Pedes (pl. Cives Nobiles Pedites) - Medium Infantry
Mail armor, helmet, shield, sidearms

Miles Pro Commune: Yeoman cavalry
Rich, but non nobile citizenry serving as mounted troops. Medium cavalry, perhaps lacking the couched lance of a professional knight in favor of a thrusting spear.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Scutifer Eques de Italia (pl. Scutiferi Equites de Italia): Light cavalry of Italy
It doesn't seem like North Italy had sergeants, but they are attributed to Scutiferi or shield-bearers in the early to mid 12th century. They are remarked as yeoman peasants able to afford a horse and holding some sort of a fief, serving as lighter horsemen. Another name option is "Contadino Eques de Italia (pl. Contadini Equites de Italia)".

Armiger Eques de Italia (pl. Armigeri Equites de Italia): Squires
They'll wear light mail, shield, spear/lance, sword.

Miles Minores de Italia / Italicus Miles Minores / Secundi Miles de Italia: Lower class knights
Representing the lower nobility, the knights who are vassals to other knights

Miles Majores de Italia / Italicus Miles Majores / Primi Miles de Italia: Upper class knights
Representing the senior nobility that isn't a named NPC gentry


NORTH ITALIAN MERCENARY UNITS

The usual selection of Stipendiarii/Solidarius Knights, footmen, crossbowmen, archers. I didn't give them any Xbows because I didn't know where to fit it in, so we'll give them Xbow mercenaries.



 
Everything looks great Sahran!

As for the special troops for Northern Italy, well, they did 'export' Genoese Crossbowmen to the Crusade ever since the first Crusade. Seeing as Genoa was a coastal city, aka a center of transport/trade, it would make sense that they only can be recruited as Mercenaries in Outremer.

Other than that, everything looks good.
If anything, we need to discuss troop stats and how we want factions to be represented. Seeing as you did most of the research, your take on this will be very important.
Add me on steam,
Outl4w3d
And hopefully we can talk sometime tomorrow.

Exams/Assignments have be hindering progress for me.
 
Outlawed said:
Everything looks great Sahran!

As for the special troops for Northern Italy, well, they did 'export' Genoese Crossbowmen to the Crusade ever since the first Crusade. Seeing as Genoa was a coastal city, aka a center of transport/trade, it would make sense that they only can be recruited as Mercenaries in Outremer.

Other than that, everything looks good.
If anything, we need to discuss troop stats and how we want factions to be represented. Seeing as you did most of the research, your take on this will be very important.
Add me on steam,
Outl4w3d
And hopefully we can talk sometime tomorrow.

Exams/Assignments have be hindering progress for me.
Click to expand...

I'll add you on steam in a little bit. Regarding the Genoese, I think it'd be okay to make the top end crossbow mercenaries Genoese (failing that, some more unpartisan name). I'd admit I can't recall anything specific about the Genoese, and I think the Italian involvement in the Levant picked up later (though it probably existed at this point, too). But there's no harm in going with Genoese Crossbowmen.

Edit: You're already on my friends list!  :shock:
 
Meloncat should be it. I heard there were many meloncats, so you can identify me by my avatar:

porkeat.jpg


I feel like I should also post this, in light of that avatar:

meh_ro5161.png


:mrgreen:
 
APPLY THE FOLLOWING CHANGES TO CASTILE/ARAGON/NAVARRE:


Peones de Apellido are light infantry with javelins, shields, no armor, sidearms.

Aquero de Apellido are unarmored light bowmen

Ballestero(s) fonsadero are light, maybe a few mail coat clad crossbowmen

Arquer de l'Host are unarmored light bowmen

Ballester de Sagramental are militia crossbowmen, light, maybe a few mail coats.

Infants de l'Host are unarmored jav-infantry


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PORTUGUESE LOCAL UNITS
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The dashed red line is an optional upgrade path, since their "Villein knights" are the tier 1 cavalry rather than available from the infantry tree a'la Castile/Aragon/Navarre

Vilão do Portugal (pl. Vilãos do Portugal)
Portuguese Serfs. Might be a bit more rough and tumble than other serfs, but still silly, smelly serfs.

Lançeiro Apellidero (pl. Lançeiros Apellideros) - Spearmen of the general levy

Peão Apellidero (pl. Peões Apellideros) - Footsoldiers of the general levy

Arqueiro Apellidero (pl. Arqueiros Apellideros) - archers of the general levy

Lançeiro do Fossado (pl. Lançeiros do Fossados) - Spearmen of the offensive call to arms
Gambesons, leather armor, helmet, shield, spear

Peão do Fossado (pl. Peões do Fossados) - Footmen of the offensive call to arms
Gambesons, leather armor, helmets, shields, sidearms (swords/axes/maces/ect)

Besteiro do Concelho (pl. Besteiros do Concelhos) - Crossbowmen of the city militia
Light armor (quilted/leather), helmet, crossbow, sidearm, doubt shield

Lançeiro do Concelho (pl. Lançeiros do Concelhos) - City Militia Spearmen
Mail shirts, helmets, shield, spear

Peão do Comitiva (pl. Peões do Comitivas) - Sergeant/Retinue footsoldiers
Mail shirts, helmets, shield, sidearm (sword/axe/mace/ect)

================================================

Tier 1) Cavaleiro Vilão do Portugal (pl. Cavaleiros Vilãos do Portugal): Non-Noble cavalrymen
No armor, limited if any helmets, shield, spear, sword, maybe javelins to reflect lingering Andalusian influence?

Tier 2) Escudeiro do Portugal (pl. Escudeiros do Portugal) - Squires
Quilted armor and leather armor, shield, spear, sword

Tier 3) Infançaõ do Portugal (pl. Infanções do Portugal) - Lower nobility knights
Lighter mail, shield, lance, sword

Tier 4) Cavaleiro do Portugal (pl. Cavaleiros do Portugal) - Upper nobility knights
Heavy mail, shield, lance, sword

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PORTUGUESE MERCENARIES
================================

Usual suspects. Generic European Stipendiarii/Solidarius Mercenaries


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IBERIAN SPECIAL UNITS
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As to my understanding all of the famous Iberian Religious Orders were founded after our period, albeit by in many cases just a few decades. Only the Sent Benedictine or "Evora" order was founded right on the dot at 1147. What would have existed instead would be their embryonic forms as "Hermangildas", quasi-religious warrior confraternities.

Pedes de Hermangilda (pl. Pedites de Hermangildas) - "Footmen of the Holy Bands"
Melee infantry with gambesons, leather, and mail shirts. Melee weapon and shield.

Miles de Hermangilda (pl. Milites de Hermangildas) - "Knights of the Holy Bands"
In this case, depicting the most affluent member of a Hermangildas, being equipped as a slightly poorer knight (mail shirts and older hauberks rather than top of the line hauberks). In the absence of any uniforms it'd be safe to go with creative choices - they'd probably paint crosses onto their shields, they might sow a cross onto their clothing in the fashion of the first Crusaders, and so forth.



===[AVAILABLE ONLY IN RECENTLY RECONQUERED/MUSLIM POPULACE REGIONS]===

Mudéjar Spearmen: Unarmored Spearmen!

Mudéjar Archers: Unarmored Archers!
They do get an edge over Iberian bowmen by always having composite bows, while Iberian archers use a mix of composite and simple self bow

[Mudéjar Horsemen & Nobles should be restricted to major Andalusian centers - Valencia, Cordoba, ect]

Mudéjar Horsemen: Light Horsemen
Unarmored javelin armed cavalry

Mudéjar Nobles: Medium Horsemen
Mail shirts, maybe some with just quilted, lance and shield

Thanks to Winterz for giving me the martial archtype terms (for spearmen, archer, ect.)
 
Sayd Ûthman said:
You can replace muttawia's al-iraq by iraqi muttawia i think its much appropriate
Click to expand...

It would actually be Mutattawia't Al-Iraq
If you wanted the singular with the Iraqi at first you would say,
Iraqi Mutatawe'

Sahran, the sexiness is causing me to have multiple historgasims. =D
I'll add everything to the 2nd post now.

EDIT: I can't seem to find your Merc/Special units for the Outremer guys.
Could you please point me to it?
 
Outlawed said:
Sayd Ûthman said:
You can replace muttawia's al-iraq by iraqi muttawia i think its much appropriate
Click to expand...

It would actually be Mutattawia't Al-Iraq
If you wanted the singular with the Iraqi at first you would say,
Iraqi Mutatawe'

Sahran, the sexiness is causing me to have multiple historgasims. =D
I'll add everything to the 2nd post now.

EDIT: I can't seem to find your Merc/Special units for the Outremer guys.
Could you please point me to it?
Click to expand...

http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,133403.msg3425120/topicseen.html#msg3425120 Outremer Mercs & special
 
about poll:mod has a very big name,also there is another mod-1257AD,which also aims to be realistic.my version:,,Clash Of The Nations"-there are lots of countries and it will be very big ,,turmoil"  :smile:
 
This is the continuation of post 2:



The Norman Kingdom of Sicily

Faction Leaders: Roger the II of Sicily, Roger came from a line of Norman counts and dukes who initially arrived in South Italy as mercenaries fighting for the Muslims or the Byzantine Empire. His rule was affirmed and his capabilities assured when he fought off countless rebellions that lasted for about 10 years. During these rebellions, his enemies were able to muster support from other royal parties in the area.

The Holy Roman Emperor, Lothair, supported by the Byzantine Emperor John II Kommenus knocked Roger off his feet with a very swift invasion of his territory. Roger then experienced 2 more defeats against his main rival Ranulf. Surprisingly though, Roger was always able to regroup his forces, and sack and destroy centers of the rebellion. He pillaged and looted castles that acted as recruitment and defense points throughout southern Italy.

In 1139, Pope Innocent II himself launched an invasion towards Sicily seeking a buffer zone between the ever growing Kingdom under Roger, who was become one of Europe's most predominant figures. The Pope was ambushed and only several days later proclaimed Roger as the rightful king of Sicily.

It is now Roger's choice to push on towards a new Crusade. This could possibly help him establish an ever needed alliance with the Holy Roman Empire under Conrad III, which will in turn make his enemies to the East, the Byzantines easier to deal with. In reality, Roger didn't ever attempt to invade Byzantium. Will you?

Faction Capital: Palermo
Area of dominance:

Faction diplomatic status with other factions:
Allied to:
The Fatimid Caliphate

Enemies to:
The Byzantine Empire

Faction colors and banners:
TBA

Troop and Weapon Information:
Here.
 
@ Sahran....

Some terms in portuguese are actually wrong....you see, when putting them in phrases and joining them with other words it is a whole different thing....

What is a Vilao and Infaçao?!  :???:

I'm a bit confused about some terms....


Well even with some minor linguistic errors you guys are keeping the great job, keep it up!  :wink:

P.S. PM me if you want correct portuguese terms...

 
Outlawed said:
This is the continuation of post 2:



The Norman Kingdom of Sicily

Faction Leaders: Roger the II of Sicily, Roger came from a line of Norman counts and dukes who initially arrived in South Italy as mercenaries fighting for the Muslims or the Byzantine Empire. His rule was affirmed and his capabilities assured when he fought off countless rebellions that lasted for about 10 years. During these rebellions, his enemies were able to muster support from other royal parties in the area.

The Holy Roman Emperor, Lothair, supported by the Byzantine Emperor John II Kommenus knocked Roger off his feet with a very swift invasion of his territory. Roger then experienced 2 more defeats against his main rival Ranulf. Surprisingly though, Roger was always able to regroup his forces, and sack and destroy centers of the rebellion. He pillaged and looted castles that acted as recruitment and defense points throughout southern Italy.

In 1139, Pope Innocent II himself launched an invasion towards Sicily seeking a buffer zone between the ever growing Kingdom under Roger, who was become one of Europe's most predominant figures. The Pope was ambushed and only several days later proclaimed Roger as the rightful king of Sicily.

It is now Roger's choice to push on towards a new Crusade. This could possibly help him establish an ever needed alliance with the Holy Roman Empire under Conrad III, which will in turn make his enemies to the East, the Byzantines easier to deal with. In reality, Roger didn't ever attempt to invade Byzantium. Will you?

Faction Capital: Palermo
Area of dominance:

Faction diplomatic status with other factions:
Allied to:
The Fatimid Caliphate

Enemies to:
The Byzantine Empire

Faction colors and banners:
TBA

Troop and Weapon Information:
Here.
Click to expand...

That is very nice indeed.
 
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