B Medieval [WB] Warband: Total Realism, 1148 A.D. - (MAPPER needed)

How do you feel about the name of the mod?

  • Its great and should stay the same.

    Votes: 13 38.2%
  • Its not so great, but I don't mind it.

    Votes: 8 23.5%
  • I don't like it, and here is my opinion (please post suggestions).

    Votes: 3 8.8%
  • I would like if it changed to 1148 - The Siege of Damascus

    Votes: 10 29.4%

  • Total voters
    34

Users who are viewing this thread

Done Hulk.
We're going to be building most of these cities from scratch.
But all will be decided on the meething that I will declare later.
 
Alright research team, lets start research. Since the mod beings in 1148 please try to limit your findings to that time period. Say no more than 50 years either way.

For each faction we will follow this base for research:
Faction Name:
Faction Leaders:
Faction known Lords:
      Any well known commanders/important characters at the time.
Faction Units and Weapons:
      Examples, both textual and visual of the faction's units and their structure as well as their armament.
Faction Capital and area of dominance:
Faction diplomatic status with other factions:
Faction colors and banners:
Faction mercenary units:
      This will be split into two main parts,

  •          
  • Recruitable by the faction.
             
  • Recruitable from the faction.
            Lets take the Kingdom of Jerusalem for example. (Just a random example)
            By: Knights Templar from the Templar Order.
            From: Knights of Jerusalem by Edessa.

Faction Town/Village/Castle information:
      Its very important for the sceners to get information on this. Most of the time we will have to use our imagination,
        but any  reference to how each faction would have built/organized their parties would be good.

So for now, lets start research for the first and biggest faction in this Mod, The Seljuk Sultanate.

But before that, I need some input. Do we keep the Seljuks as a separate entity from the Zengid Dynasty? Or do we bring in Toğrül and his victories towards Anatolia during that period? If so, we will add another faction to the game and call it the Zengid Dynasty and they will represent Noor Al-Din. That would totally ignore Zengi's first son, Saif Al-Din, because he had control over Mosul, we could simply have him as a lord maybe?

In reality, Zengi never really caused issues in Byzantium and around its borders, he was more towards the greater Damascus area.

It was The Sultunate of Rum that eventually carried the Seljuks to take Baghdad from the Fatimids back to the Abbassids and a great part of Anatolia and it was he who was harassing the Byzantines.

This is what I suggest, it might be more work, but it is the historically accurate thing to do.

During that period we have, The Burids, the Zengids and the Artuqid. All of whom pretty much weren't on good terms at all =p
The Artuqids allied with Edessa against the Zengids and the Burids allied with King Folk against the Zengids as well.

However, seeing as how King Folk died, and the Burids were weak at our period, I think the Zengids and the Artuqids are what we need to add along side the Seljuks.

This is because eventually, The Artuqids went to ally with Salahudin fighting the Seljuks under his new found Ayubbid Sultanate, which is beyond our Mod's reach. They did hold Mosul for a while after that, seeing the defeat of the Zengids, but Salahudin claimed that later.

So it seems that the Zengids and the Artuqids were most 'active' during our period. It would make much sense to add them, and keep the Seljuks as the front towards Byzantium. Players would then be able to either follow in history's footpath by having all these inter-Muslim wars and trying to unite them all, or simply use their division to destroy them using another faction.
 
EEEEEEEEEEPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP!  :shock:

The Almoravid Empire was destroyed in April, 1147!!! how could it be in our mod! this won't do! What Empire survived was the Almohad Empire not the Almoravid. Please take out the Almoravid and replace it with Almohad! Or else this mod would be historically incorrect.

Also the Faction had many names? from my many sources it was always refereed as
Seljuk Sultanate of Rûm, but this really depends which Seljuk Empire did you mean? Cause they were a large population of Anatolia so they in result had many offspring. The Anatolian Seljuks are an offshoot tribe of a larger group of Turks, the Great Seljuk Turks of Iran. The entire "Seljuk Age" spans three hundred years, from the 11th century up to the 13th century.

Personally I believe we could use the Anatolian Seljuks because they are after all  were the founders of the first true Turkish state in Asia Minor. The Seljuks of Anatolia were responsible for one of the richest and most inventive periods in Turkish culture. This should give us much to do with them. Problem is we end around 1194. *shrugs*
Alright now lets get back on topic

Faction Name:
The Seljuk Sultanate of Rum

Faction Leaders:
Izzeddin Kılıç Arslan II (Kilic Arslan in short)-A prince of exceptional ability and father of 10 sons; prepares the glorious period to come; Victory of Myriocephalum; Konya lost to the Third Crusade under the ruling dynasty name of Ghaznevid.

Faction Capital and area of dominance:
Konya (Capital), Musul,  F THIS

READ THE SPOLIER IT HAS THE POSITION WHERE THE VILLAGES AND TOWSN SHOULD BE LOL BEWARE :wink:
Town-Aksary

Villages
Sultan Han Aksaray parallel to road, door faces Aksaray
Obruk Han parallel to road, door faces Aksaray
Zazadin Han parallel to road, door faces Aksaray
Ak perpendicular to the road
Dolay parallel to road, door faces Aksaray


Town-Kayseri

Ağzikara parallel to road, door on side but probably faced Aksaray
Oresun perpendicular to road
Alay perpendicular to road

Town-KONYA

Horozlu perpendicular tot he road
Dokuzun parallel to the road, door faces Konya
Hacı Hafiz parallel to road (?)
Altinapa parallel to road, door faces Konya

Town-AFYON
Yeniceköy perpendicular to road
Kadin parallel to road
Işakli perpendicular to road


Town-EGRIDIR

Eğret perpendicular to road

Town-Beyşehir

Kuruçesme parallel to road, door faces Beyşehir
Kizilören parallel to road, door faces Beyşehir

ANTALYA

Evdir faces south
Kırkgöz perpendıcular to road
Suzuz perpendıcular to road
Incir (?) facade faces south


Faction diplomatic status with other factions:


Faction colors and banners:

Faction Troop Units:

Ghazi light cavalry- as they were lords nomadic tribes who alweys had very limited Armour only cavalry Ghazi are like the muslim version of knights

Ghulams- heavy cavalry only superbly armed from head to toe

Akhi the cannon fodder cheap infantry -Rind or Runud city population. armed cityzens with knife and smaler swords.



Faction mercenary units:
      This will be split into two main parts,
Recruitable by the faction.
Recruitable from the faction.

            Lets take the Kingdom of Jerusalem for example. (Just a random example)
            By: Knights Templar from the Templar Order.
            From: Knights of Jerusalem by Edessa.

Faction Town/Village/Castle information:
      Konya-Alaeddin Mosque is what its known most for therefore a must have (http://www.vintagemalaya.com/Jugra.html)
I think we should simply give them 11 towns or so because in the end thats what he did he split his empire to 11 provinces which would give a logical thought of 11 command centers and some numerous bands of castles to support it.

The towns all had many Ribat-style caravansarais (where the caverns take rest stops),builders, were developers of caravansarai architecture of and colossal dimensions.  They built some ten hans, which served as the prototype for the later Anatolian hans. The plans included open courtyards, iwans and covered sections. Notable is the celebrated Ribat-i Malik of 1078 on the Bukhara-Samarkand road, with its monumental, highly-decorated pistaq portal and fluted adobe walls.  They also seem to have more Hans (rest stops) then towns and etc towns are usualy built after the Hans get to big and when it is it ususlay looks bulky/militarilistic fortress.

Some side note info for screen builders.
Like an oasis in the wilderness, the fortress-like solidity of Anatolian hans beckoned caravans from a great distance with their promise of security and comfort. One can imagine the joy felt by the travelers when they saw its massive door looming ahead across the plain after a strenuous day of travel in the heat and dust of the Anatolian plain.

Hans were run like mini-cities, and they tried to anticipate every service a traveler could need. It was here that merchants organized their goods, repaired their vehicles, tended their animals, ate and bathed. It was here, too, that commerce was carried out, as merchants bought and sold among themselves along the way.  If we try to imagine a modern day comparison, hans were a combination of a roadside truck stop, a motel, and a trucking depot.

Researchers are still undecided as to exactly how the internal space of a han was organized to accommodate humans and animals.  Some believe they were kept separately, with the animals in the courtyard and the travelers in the side cells or in the covered hall.  Others believe it was a free-for-all, with the merchants sleeping with their animals wherever they could find a space.  The covered hall was probably extensively used in the cold winter months for sheltering both animals, goods, and travelers, and the open court was used in the summer.
.
Like an oasis in the wilderness, the fortress-like solidity of Anatolian hans beckoned caravans from a great distance with their promise of security and comfort. One can imagine the joy felt by the travelers when they saw its massive door looming ahead across the plain after a strenuous day of travel in the heat and dust of the Anatolian plain.

Hans were run like mini-cities, and they tried to anticipate every service a traveler could need. It was here that merchants organized their goods, repaired their vehicles, tended their animals, ate and bathed. It was here, too, that commerce was carried out, as merchants bought and sold among themselves along the way.  If we try to imagine a modern day comparison, hans were a combination of a roadside truck stop, a motel, and a trucking depot.

Researchers are still undecided as to exactly how the internal space of a han was organized to accommodate humans and animals.  Some believe they were kept separately, with the animals in the courtyard and the travelers in the side cells or in the covered hall.  Others believe it was a free-for-all, with the merchants sleeping with their animals wherever they could find a space.  The covered hall was probably extensively used in the cold winter months for sheltering both animals, goods, and travelers, and the open court was used in the summer.

ANIMALS
The number of animals in the hans was probably double the amount of humans, and represented a considerable concern for the organization of the life inside the han. The beast of burden of choice was the camel, as they could carry the heaviest loads and were well-suited to long journeys across dry plains. The camels used were a breed created by the crossing of the Bactrian camel (two-humped) and the dromedary camel (one hump). The ensuing one-humped camel was sturdy, well-suited to the varied climate and could travel far distances, but was nervous, difficult to handle and could not carry loads of more that 200-300 pounds (a Bactrian can carry some 500 pounds). Camels usually traveled in groups of seven (called a "katar") and were led by a pack donkey or a mule. Other animals used for transport and travel were horses and mules. It can also be assumed that a number of dogs accompanied the caravans: one need only to witness the vigilance of the Turkish breed of the Kangal shepherd dog to appreciate the security they would have provided a traveling caravan.

Some researchers have suggested that the animals were tethered outside the han and tended to by grooms and guards.  In view of modern sanitary principles, this hypothesis is tempting to accept, as the noise, smell and waste of animals would have been unbearable at such close quarters.  However, the animals represented a serious investment and were capital to the success of a merchant, so it is very doubtful that he would have let them out of his sight and left in a potentially dangerous situation, prey to midnight rustlers.

A full staff tended to the needs of the animals, and included veterinarians, grooms, saddle makers, blacksmiths, stable hands for mucking the courtyard.

Large spaces were needed to stable the animals, which probably numbered several hundred per night in the larger hans. The considerable size of the courtyard of certain hans, such as Karatay and Incir, are well-suited to handle large numbers of animals. As mentioned above, one can imagine the strong odor and considerable din that such a large group of animals would have made inside the han.

PEOPLE
Travelers
It is estimated that the larger hans could house up to 200 travelers, but this number was probably more modest in the majority of the hans. The possibility of staying overnight in a han allowed merchants to dispense with carrying the extra burden of tents, equipment, and food supplies along the way, leaving them more space for their commercial goods. Travelers were mostly men, and of all nationalities: Armenians, Greeks, Turks, Caucasians, Europeans (Venetians, Florentines, Spaniards, Frenchmen, Maltese), Syrians, Egyptians, Persians and Jews.

Cooking was probably carried out in the courtyard, and meals were taken in a communal "around the campfire" style.  Several hans have remains of tandir clay ovens in the raised platform sections.  These ovens were used essentially for cooking and baking.  Bread dough is pressed against the preheated surface, and pots are placed at its mouth for cooking.  The French naturalist Pierre Belon, traveling in Turkey in 1553, describes the meals served in hans at this time in his work Les observations de plusieurz singularitez et choses mémorables trouvées en Grece.  He describes a simple and uniform menu for everyone, both sultans and servants.  It consisted generally of a stew or a bulgar pilav, some tarana (a sort of flour mixed with soured milk, and dried after fermentation) and rice.  He says the stew and pilav were eaten all across Turkey, and that rice was imported from Egypt via Istanbul. He relates that meat was cooked differently than in Europe: "When they are finished roasting the meat, they remove it from the pot and then put in the pot that which they wish to thicken the stew." He also relates the Turkish custom of eating raw cucumbers and onions. Another Frenchman, Jean Thévenot, writes in 1665 (Relation d'un voyage fait au Levant) about Turkish food, stating that is is very simple, and that Turks are moderate in drink and food.  He describes the pilav: "They put some rice in a pot with a chicken, or some lamb, and when the rice is slightly cooked, they add butter and serve it on a big platter with pepper and some saffron". These two Frenchmen, ever attentive to food, have thus left us valuable information on the food habits of the Turks of the Middle Ages. Both writers were impressed by the simplicity of the food, and how it was eaten in a communal fashion sitting on the floor around a large platter.  Although they wrote after the Seljuk era, we can easily imagine the big cauldrons of pilav cooking in the courtyards of the Seljuk hans.

Despite the efforts made to provide every sort of service to travelers, the comfort provided was rudimentary, and the proximity of humans and animals must have been trying.  The latrines were probably located near the stable area, and had wooden or curtain partitions.

Villagers
The inhabitants of the surrounding villages and the local peasants would have been involved as well in the life of the han, supplying food, animals for slaughter and other services. There were probably few women in the hans, save for women who could have come to work in the han or to entertain the travelers as dancers or musicians.

Personnel
The administrative staff of the hans consisted of an administrator and a head "innkeeper" (hanci in Turkish), who acted much like a concierge in a modern hotel, directing new arrivals to the various areas and services of the hans. Other personnel included housekeepers and cleaners, cooks, a physician, an imam (religious official), a wainwright, money changer, tailor, cobbler, laundry workers, a superintendent of provisions, guards and police, messengers, and a score of gofers, probably small boys, who carried out chores and ran errands.  Like in a modern hotel, there must have been a large service staff: one can imagine a staff of at least 20 people per han.

SECURITY
Considerable importance was given to security issues inside and outside the han. The architecture of the han itself was the primary security measure. With their fortified walls, single opening and iron doors, hans were impenetrable to attack. Entrance via the main door was administered by the head doorkeeper ("kapici" in Turkish) who was seconded by several guards posted in the entry vestibule. Inside the han there were security guards to ensure that there was no theft of goods or property during the night. The doors of the han were locked at night and watchmen took their posts on the flat roofs to supervise the surrounding area.  There were probably internal security guards as well, for in order for this entire system to work, merchants had to feel entirely secure from robbery even when inside the han.

ACTIVITIES IN THE HAN
It is interesting to imagine life in the han during a normal day. Tired and dusty, the caravaneers would arrive at the door, enter the han, and would be taken in charge by the head attendant.  Bellowing out his orders, the attendant would direct the porters to unload the bundles stacked high upon the backs of the animals.  Grooms would then lead away the animals, group them according to merchant, and water and feed them. The merchants would meet with the other travelers in the han to discuss business and carry on commerce, spreading out their goods and negotiating prices, in a myriad of languages. Commercial alliances and new friendships were formed, with merchants often making plans to form groups to travel together.

At the end of the day, the travelers were refreshed after bathing and dining.  All activity would cease at the moment of the evening prayer. Afterwards, the han would come to life.  The courtyards and halls no doubt became the setting for a beehive buzz of activity. Story telling, sharing of news, animated conversations, debates, reciting of love poetry by "aşik" dervish troubadours, laughter and arguing carried on late into the night in a Babel of languages.  Entertainment probably included games, gambling and performances by musicians, acrobats and bear trainers. Indeed, these hans also served another important, non-commercial feature: they helped to spread news and information throughout the empire. People from all areas and countries came together and related events, shared situations they had experienced, and told of news from their home regions. This news was then passed on to the local villages and towns.  In this sense, the hans served as an information hub, local news center and a sort of oral public library.

At dawn, visitors to the han would wake at the morning call for prayer. A scurry of activity would follow as the caravans prepared to depart. Once the caravans were ready and assembled, the doors would open, and the merchants would set out together down the road once more. Those who chose to stay could rest for another two days and reorganize their goods. With its guests now on their way, the han would once again busy itself with the cycle of daily activities needed to prepare for the next night’s arrivals.

 

oh yes they were known to have about 10 Hans which backs my original propersition 11 great cities.
 
I  can't beleive I called them Almoravids, I knew they were Almohads! Thanks for that !

And I guess I'll be adding you to the research team o.o
Thats some Amazing stuff right there.
Thanks for that!


I do have some questions though.
Firstly what does parallel to road and perpendicular to road mean in your town/village descriptions?
Also we need to obtain the total number of towns, villages and castles in Warband and not exceed that by a whole lot. Seeing as the Sultanate of Rum is the biggest faction area wise, they should have the most towns and what not.

Also, another thing is regarding the Danishmends. We will probably have to include them as well.
 
This sounds pretty damn awesome. The troop system sounds intriguing, yet confusing. Is it really possible to make it that way?  Also, maybe you should add a manual in-game which culture combined with which region creates which final unit.
 
Nodscouter said:
This sounds pretty damn awesome. The troop system sounds intriguing, yet confusing. Is it really possible to make it that way?  Also, maybe you should add a manual in-game which culture combined with which region creates which final unit.

Haha thanks!
Yes I beleive it is possible, Ealabor used something similar in Hegemony 268 B.C., I have already contacted him regarding Diplomacy and will contact him later about that. It is possible, but I'm not exactly sure how to do it.

Edit: I have also contacted Diplomacy Mod's team to see if they can help us out on some features :wink:
 
I'll process the sources I'll be pasting here soon, just a bit busy right now and I want to contribute something in the mean time. I'm definitely outclassed when it comes to the political/social/environmental research from you guys. My forte is more the military makeup of those factions, although I would shamefully admit my research will primarily be from secondary sources. Don't have the time to do too much primary research work, although I just bought the autobiographies of Usama ibn munqidh. I'll process this and any other stuff I can find later and come up with a troop list recommendation, as well as equipment and so forth.

The most important theme behind the Fatimids was that they were I believe the last major Islamic Power before the age of gunpowder to hail from a primarily Arab disicpline of warfare. Their strategies, equipment and overall style was more in line with the late Caliphate Arabs with a sprinkling of Turkishness (With the value heaped on the Mamluks), but none of the almost exclusively cavalry centric nature of the Seljuk states. I generally see them as comparable to the Crusaders, with some differences:
More cavalry, not quite as heavy but still their bread and butter horsemen would be armored, most being armed with sword/spear and shield.

As much infantry, maybe a bit more, but less armor amongst them - where I would wager the bulk of crusader infantry had some sort of soft armor I imagine the bulk of Fatimid infantry didn't have any armor whatsoever.

GENERAL RESEARCH

Military would consist primarily of Sudanese slave warriors (Infantry), "Civilized" Arabs (infantry & cavalry), Armenian slave warriors or mercenaries (archers and cavalry), Mamluks (Turkic/Greek/ect). Auxiliaries/mercenaries would feature Bedouin, Armenians, Berbers, Blacks within Fatimid territory proper, Turkic mercenaries in any Syrian/Palestinian domains and theoretically perhaps Greek/European mercenaries as a rarity.

While the Ian Heath resource and Osprey seem to support that the Sudanese Infantry were primarily archers, I agree with the Tabulae source which refutes that. Sudanese ghulams would be armed with swords, spears, pikes, polearms and javelins primarily.

Such a classic Phalanx manuver is very characteristic of pre-Seljuk Islamic armies, from those of the Iranian dynasties to the Caliphate Arabs themselves. I cannot buy that the bulk of Fatimid infantry would be bowmen, considering they'd be left vulnerable to the Frankish cavalry and would serve a far less valuable role than a bulwark of infantry for the cavalry to operate from (A'la the Islamic strategy as far back as Muhammad).

Basic kit of the official Fatimid Arab cavalryman would be sword, spear, round shield (Some kite thrown in) and mail armor.

========================================================================================================================

Ian Heath's Armies and Enemies of the Crusades Wargames Research Publication: http://a.imagehost.org/0323/Ian_Heath.jpg


It's important to note that while he says the sudanese were "principally the latter [archers]", I've read a lot of contention about that fact and I don't really agree with it. See the Tabulae page for a more experienced refutal of the Sudanese being Archer-centric. Coupled with the fact that the Armenians apparently were more notorious as archers amongst the Sudanese, I agree with Tabulae's assertion that the Sudanese troops would be footsoldiers armed with swords, spears, javelins, and possible pseudo-polearms.

Tabulaenovaexercituum's Fatimid Page: http://tabulaenovaeexercituum.pbworks.com/Fatimid%20Egyptian

ShatteredLances Fatimid Page: http://shatteredlances.pbworks.com/The%20Heirs%20of%20Fatima:%20Fatimid%20Egyptian
 
The Sudanesse arm of the Fatimid army was mainly levies and spearmen as you said. Archers were more Bedouins and Berbers as well as the mercs of course. Thanks for that information, it will be very useful when I design troop trees. For now we have started research on the Seljuk Sultanate of Rum, I'll see what I can find about them in addition to what Wu-Long has found, there seemed to be some mistakes in his post when I looked into it. Arslan was leader in 1156, prior to that it was Mesut the First and he was the one who defeated Conrad III of Germany and Louis the Young. I'll post some pictures as well.

PS: Started work on a visual map that will give an idea of the span of this Mod, will start working on actual map soon.
I also have an E-copy of "Armies and Enemies of the Crusades 1096-1291" and will read the Seljuks up in that. See if you can do the Fatimids Sahran.
 
Outlawed said:
The Sudanesse arm of the Fatimid army was mainly levies and spearmen as you said. Archers were more Bedouins and Berbers as well as the mercs of course. Thanks for that information, it will be very useful when I design troop trees. For now we have started research on the Seljuk Sultanate of Rum, I'll see what I can find about them in addition to what Wu-Long has found, there seemed to be some mistakes in his post when I looked into it. Arslan was leader in 1156, prior to that it was Mesut the First and he was the one who defeated Conrad III of Germany and Louis the Young. I'll post some pictures as well.

PS: Started work on a visual map that will give an idea of the span of this Mod, will start working on actual map soon.
I also have an E-copy of "Armies and Enemies of the Crusades 1096-1291" and will read the Seljuks up in that. See if you can do the Fatimids Sahran.

If that's the book by Ian Heath, the screenshot I posted was the full description of the Fatimid Military. A few of the troop depictions are suitable for the Fatimids, and I'll see what other stuff I can scrounge up.

I'm also a bit of an amateur skinner (You can see my stuff http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,129074.0.html & in parts of this topic http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,117311.255.html - except the majority of stuff on the front page is Wei.Xiadi's, just the Misc. stuff and images strewn within the topic are mine, and often with his help) and while my primary efforts in that regard will for now go towards Litus, I might be able to throw some of it WTR's way. My talents though are "frankenstein" in nature and really only rest with sturdy mail, lamellar, and stiff cloth stuff - I can't do flowing cloth worth beans.  Especially if WTR can nab any sort of modeler and a reciprocal relationship can develop between mods: with a few very simple model edits (Closing a gap, flattening a layered appearance on a model, lengthening the skirt or sleeves, ect.), a lot of stuff I'd been running into a Goldilocks syndrome with where the model I was going to use was almost perfect but had some critical if minor flaw would become possible.


For an example, I'm fairly confident I could pull off the Sudanese Cavalryman's quilted dress (leftmost), the Fatimid Nubian Footsoldier's quilted dress (second from left), the Ahdath (Third from left), the Berber (third from right), and probably the remaining ones too. All dated to around this period, though some are earlier or later.  But all those would require a modeler being able to tweak some of the existing stuff. And bear in mind my stuff wouldn't be too good, just something to tide WTR over (I think the mod already has a texturer in the credits though)

Once I'm done with the Fatimids I'll move onto the Moors/Andalusians. Speaking of which, I am not sure how you plan to tilt the map but you might want to consider what'll happen for Eastern Europe. I know the dangers of adding "just one more thing", especially without a strong geographic limit, but if the map's tilt leaves an empty spot in Eastern Europe/Steppe you might want to consider Hungary/Poland/One of the Rus States/Kipchaks. I imagine your focus is more on the Mediterranean/Middle East/Western Europe and I think it should stay that way, but it'll be tricky to design the map thusly. A quick idea I had in mind was something like this: http://j.imagehost.org/0147/Map.jpg

Not so much a tilt I guess, I'm just remembering what Miraj did for Broken crescent in MTWII (which required a uniform rectangular map), which was to tilt it so it was at something like a 45 degree angle.

Although you could save time and simply use one of the OSP Eurasia Maps floating around, problem being that would leave gaps with Scandinavia/Eastern Europe.
 
Ahh good stuff Sahran.
Don't be shy to try stuff out; if you would like to have a shot at some units go for it.
However, give me just a bit of time and I'll show you guys the map and the unit troop tree for the Seljuks to give you an idea of how these, 'lines' are going to work. After that we can start worrying about how the units will look. For now, the most important thing is getting the unit tree set up and finding the right hierarchy for each faction.

Also yes, its the same book that we both have. Its an amazing resource for us. I think the hardest part of research will be the Iberian Peninsula area and the Almohads, but that will come later. For now lets focus on Muslim factions first.

@ Eagle: done.

Also, edited team list. Check out the new members and send them a pm welcoming them to our glorious effort! lol
 
I've also got the equivalent books that cover Europe, excluding I think Byzantium but featuring the Moors/Andalusians/Iberians when the time comes. Can send it to you if need be.  :grin:
 
Right now the resource im reading is more Socio-economic and political so im just skimming through that for info on the lords and etc. Ill get start on the military field later on

I love 3 volume "A History of the Crusades" by Steven Runciman, if you havent read it i recommend it to you, even if its just for leisure reading. One of the best histories of the Crusades ever
 
Sahran said:
I've also got the equivalent books that cover Europe, excluding I think Byzantium but featuring the Moors/Andalusians/Iberians when the time comes. Can send it to you if need be.  :grin:
That is some amazing news. I was really worried about resources for the Iberian Peninsula area and the Almohads. Awesome.
If you've got an E-Copy on you that would be great =D

Wu-long said:
hey who is mapper i think i will just make rough sketch of the city thingy and send it over lool don wanna confuse you guys

I think I'll be working on the map, I'll probably get Thogrim's editor for M&B and copy the map.txt over to Warband , but first I found the Map we will be using for the Mod.

Since we are in the 12th century, the best map for us to use would be Muhammad Al-Idrisi's map from the 'Tabula Reogeriana'.
Even though the map is really warped from reality, its perfect for our Mod. It would leave an area of Hungary exposed in the top corner of the map, however, we could easily make that area inaccessible and viola.

PS: Large Images
Map.png

CleanMapBare.png

I'll see if I can edit it for you and make it a simple 2 color map so you could place the towns/fiefs.
^Done. Now we can fill the fiefs as we do the factions and then finally make the M&B map.

Rorky said:
Right now the resource im reading is more Socio-economic and political so im just skimming through that for info on the lords and etc. Ill get start on the military field later on

I love 3 volume "A History of the Crusades" by Steven Runciman, if you havent read it i recommend it to you, even if its just for leisure reading. One of the best histories of the Crusades ever

General information about the time would only enhance our understanding of the time period which is the best result we would expect. And no I have not read them, but I will be sure to check them out =)
 
Ah.
Thanks alot for those, we will put them to good use!

Yes indeed, we do lack in Models right now, I think its mainly because we are still at the research phase of this whole thing.

Edit: Basic 2 color map added.
 
I'm glad you like it.
Please check the 2nd Post. The troop trees for the Seljulk Sultanate of Rum are now done.

Let me use this post to explain how the unit system will work.
There will be three main 'lines' of progression trees for players to pick from.

  • Local Units

These units are merely units that were trained under supervision of the Sultan/his vassals/his amirs. The symoblize the main backbone of the faction's armies and are generally where you would find their elite troops.



  • Mercenary Units

These units will be recruitable units from the towns and castles of the faction under talking to a mercenary captain who will either be in the arena/tavern/somewhere around. They are generally the most expensive units to upkeep and will upgrade faster than Local Units. You will be able to recruit units from anywhere in the trees/lines of the Mercenary unit. So for example, I can recruit a Turcoman Veteran Raider on the spot by paying a certain amount of money. Some Mercenary units will be shared by several factions. For example, Kurdish Hillmen would be recruitable even by the Crusader States or the Crusader Armies.



  • Special Units

These units will only be recruitable by that faction and will have a unique set of equipment and a unique background. Knight and Military Orders such as the Hashashin and the Knights Templar would fall underneath these groups.
 
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