The Skin Poppet - Suggestions

Got it and glad you like my idea !

But adding norse myth figures does not necessarely mean you have to connect them to Odin. I.e. you may call the Valkyries simply "Battle Goddesses" or Draugr could be just undead without any thing "Odin connected".

But recently I've come across some Irish Mythology articles. The Tuatha De Danann, Fir Bolg and Formorians are all races of dieties that instead of the "Classical Gods" concept that Greeks had, they actually lived in earth. But they had supernatural powers and abilities. Morrigan is the one you may be interested in.

Would it be possible to do something with the normal mount and blade companions? I always find myself recruiting some of them early on but then as I progress and get the new companions the old ones just start to seem boring in comparison and I stop caring much for them.

So what I'm wondering is would it be possible to put something in the game to buff them, something along the lines of being able to turn them into vampires or  werewolf's or have them be your students and learn necromancy from you .

But I think that is one of the best parts of the game - it is Native, with everything else included, and all the major changes (except perhaps, those made to the scenery) will not be terribly evident until you... dig a little deeper? Haha.

That is not to say that I would never entertain the possibilities of one or more of the original companions being caught up in a plotline at some point - especially Marnid and Borcha, since they are part of the "ancient history" of Calradia (being the first companions added) - interesting how they're still alive after all these years... hmmm...

For the most part, I wanted to leave plenty of room for purists to still recruit human companions - I have expanded the possibilities of playing as the underdog in many ways, including the three recently-added manuals, and the Antihero rewards. There will be more to come in that vein. After all, if there is to be a necromancy faction (and I can verify that there will be for the next version; I finally got it figured out!) there also must be a pretender to the throne. And there is only one character from the "ancient history" of Mount & Blade who is ambitious enough to fill that role - with a little twist of my own, of course. You're going to love it.

I love to play your mod whilst possessed by the demon alcohol.  I succumb to the dark side and do unspeakable things to all manner of beings. Yet, in the morning plagued and tormented by the evenings iniquities I once more guilt ridden play the game and I find myself wanting to slay all manner of abominations.  In the manic throws of my righteous wrath I find I long for implements to aid me in the destruction of evil.  I eagerly await thy update a pray that there is some force of light that will aid me in my redemption, although I fear there is nothing that can save my wretched soul.
-De mortuis nil nisi bonum-

Have you tried abstinence?
From alcohol, not the game.

Untitled. said:

Have you tried abstinence?
From alcohol, not the game.

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Poe tried it. It didn't work for him.  I was trying a sort of Poe-esq if not poetical plea for anti- evil hardware.

I am actually planning to expand on the Antihero possibilities in the next release - the quests for the Pretender to the Crown of the necromancy faction (now simply titled "Evil") will only be able to be initiated by an Antihero, for instance.

N0ught said:

I am actually planning to expand on the Antihero possibilities in the next release - the quests for the Pretender to the Crown of the necromancy faction (now simply titled "Evil") will only be able to be initiated by an Antihero, for instance.

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Awesome!  I love playing in your crazy wicked world.  Thanks for your hard work.

I have been playing the mod for months now perhaps even an year(?), and my personal dissertions showed me that you should put some love in those native factions, I love warband, but I keep getting back to it's father to play S&S

And what It feels slight absent is the love for the factions, you've put firearms in the game, perhaps some factions could benefit from a "updated troop tree", or a total rework of some factions, because, how is suppose for one to be an antihero without making pacts with the Blood fountain? the hordes of death are relentless, and destroy easily the living, lost many times fighting against abominations.

I know it's not dedicated to good, but there are so magicka anima and neutra references, why not make better troop trees? like soldiers being able to use firearms, better armor for some factions, like swadians could use more heavy armored units, also the Bread of the dead looks too generic, I've seen a mod that adds retextures, it could be textured differently, it's bread of the dead! bloody god. It must look deady

Perhaps even the local factions could be aware that the DEAD WALKS THE LAND, and make effort to add some paladins to their regiments upgrade armory, blessed stuff to kill vampires and other undead, silver weaponry to vaporize werewolfs, perhaps even make some pacts to gain power and stop feeling like they're just fodder, meat and blood for the Blood God? They're still human, alas, understimated. A lone shadowlord can take on the mighty swadian army, I know in lore and knowledge it's supposed to be supernatural, but that's ludicrous.

Oh, and I love Poe, in facebook I administrate several groups dedicated to the occult, magicka, HP Lovecraft and cthulhu and so many other themes of research and debate, and I love the vibe of S&S, It feels so.. alive. Real.



EDIT: On extispicy. Why not be able to sacrifice Cattle as well?  or perhaps use them for a more sinister design?

Well, these are my current suggestions, I'm starting a new char and playing again, will surely report anything that comes to note, forgive my english, had a killer day.

Hope you all the best, and may your shadows bring you light and reveal you the world.

Gryffindor said:

I have been playing the mod for months now perhaps even an year(?), and my personal dissertions showed me that you should put some love in those native factions, I love warband, but I keep getting back to it's father to play S&S

And what It feels slight absent is the love for the factions, you've put firearms in the game, perhaps some factions could benefit from a "updated troop tree", or a total rework of some factions, because, how is suppose for one to be an antihero without making pacts with the Blood fountain? the hordes of death are relentless, and destroy easily the living, lost many times fighting against abominations.

I know it's not dedicated to good, but there are so magicka anima and neutra references, why not make better troop trees? like soldiers being able to use firearms, better armor for some factions, like swadians could use more heavy armored units, also the Bread of the dead looks too generic, I've seen a mod that adds retextures, it could be textured differently, it's bread of the dead! bloody god. It must look deady

Perhaps even the local factions could be aware that the DEAD WALKS THE LAND, and make effort to add some paladins to their regiments upgrade armory, blessed stuff to kill vampires and other undead, silver weaponry to vaporize werewolfs, perhaps even make some pacts to gain power and stop feeling like they're just fodder, meat and blood for the Blood God? They're still human, alas, understimated. A lone shadowlord can take on the mighty swadian army, I know in lore and knowledge it's supposed to be supernatural, but that's ludicrous.

Oh, and I love Poe, in facebook I administrate several groups dedicated to the occult, magicka, HP Lovecraft and cthulhu and so many other themes of research and debate, and I love the vibe of S&S, It feels so.. alive. Real.



EDIT: On extispicy. Why not be able to sacrifice Cattle as well?  or perhaps use them for a more sinister design?

Well, these are my current suggestions, I'm starting a new char and playing again, will surely report anything that comes to note, forgive my english, had a killer day.

Hope you all the best, and may your shadows bring you light and reveal you the world.

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Good to hear from a long time fan. It may surprise you, but I have an answer to nearly everything:

1 ~ First off, I wanted to preserve the native world as much as possible - like a tension against change from the mod? The only real marked difference is the change in textures, which were absolutely necessary for mood. I almost considered doing the mod in monochrome somehow, but that was simply too much to do, and too limiting artistically. So that is why I have left the original kingdoms the way they are - I know many ache for some expansion, but just as many would feel nostalgic about native (myself included in the latter group).

2 ~ About losing to undead armies: Firstly, use cavalry - mounted companions with polearms (especially the mod polearms) are especially deadly. Secondly, you only have to abstain from Necromancy until level 30 to reap all the benefits of the Antihero reward - at that point, if you do not hop on the undead bandwagon you may indeed be left behind - undead troops wind up being much more powerful at the highest tiers, of course, and if you choose to continue to play the underdog, it may be your fate to struggle. Fourthly, choose your battles wisely, and avoid big fights if possible.

3 ~ I wanted the Bread of the Dead and Bloodwine textures to blend in with their Native counterparts - they look perfectly normal until you bite into them...

4 ~ I really don't like the concept of Paladin-like troops. It is a very dark fantasy world, where people are not religious - they are superstitious if anything, and due to the very real aspect of the dark arts in the world, most are simply just properly informed from personal experience. The only religions present are allusions to old pagan concepts, and worshipping the Greek gods themselves - who actually exist. So then, these dark rites cannot be considered superstition, nor religion - for they call upon They Who May Choose To Answer. Also, there is nothing similar to paladins present in Greek mythology, where morality is always subject to interpretation - sages and oracles are the only real "holy men", and they are not exactly warriors. So it is the same in Solid and Shade.

5 ~ I am planning to add allergies to silver for Werewolves, and allergies to salt for Vampires. But I don't think I will go the route that silver weapons or salt-dipped weapons do more damage to Weres and Vamps, respectively. Instead, I think that if there is Silver or Salt present in weapon or item form, in any of the inventories of the warring parties, it will cut Werewolf and Vampire life bars in half each combat - causing extended battles to be rather decisive. This will also apply to friendly Weres and Vamps. So attacking caravans as a Were or a Vamp could be perilous! I like the "talismanic" aspect of doing it this way - Were troops would carry salt, and Vamp troops would carry silver, as defenses against their mortal enemies.

6 ~ I think if a single Shadowlord is taking out an entire Swadian army, you must be playing a version older than the last release - I did a lot of balancing in that last installment.

7 ~ Exstispicy historically did require a cattle liver. But with Calradia being a different land tempered with altered beliefs, and with the emphasis in the mod placed on horses and mounted combat, and the value of horses, horse livers are just what the doctor ordered. Plus, I think many (my fiancee included; love her lots) are at least slightly bothered by horses dying, let alone being slaughtered ritualistically - and what can I say, I love to oblige the truly horrific - up to, and including, adding in a nice horse scream with each sacrifice. Do what you love; love what you do. Haha.

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Thank you for the feedback - I look forward to more. May you learn to see in the dark...

Will surely give any feedback and suggestions I can sir.

I'm using the latest version of S&S, never failed to collect the latest, I appreciate most features and hunger for more 

You want the world unmolested, that I can respect, truly, but perhaps couldn't you overlook the possibility of a catre of especialized troops? they don't need to be outright religious fanatics, but adapted hunters of the underworld, doomguides, hoplites, orders of peacekeepers, perhaps, something to hold back the undead whilst greedy lords fight them wars and the undead rise from the battlefields to wreak havocs on villages. Manhunters are just too "meeh" even if they're native, I've learnt. I watch GoT, the Night's Watch are peacekeepers, but the realms does not care if the undead would rise and rampage the world, seems like the scenario you've built, I played many a life in S&S, and I truly miss having someone to keep the undead in their place, lords doesn't care, and manhunters? HAHAHAHA! Free-walking corpses. Truly, they are quite exploited source of Corpses both horse and human, I've seen an acolyte army take them down, that shouldn't be possible, it should be worth your time to see what happens, watch a troupe of manhunters, they're just useless, I don't ever want to hold the progress of the mod, but seriously, watch those manhunters. They could be a challenge when nothing else is, once you beat hades, gather most artifacts, there aren't much else there too fight against.

These peacekeepers could use crossbows that are somewhat enchanted to hunt undead, vampyre and lycantrope and spiritual, shadow, also carry long silverswords, firearms and even some coffin nails? 
clad in Black Armor, both foot and horse, they could be considered the last human defence against the supernatural forces that would destroy any life and light it touches.

The dark of the darkest has it cost, what makes a balance in the natural order is never ending fight of both light and dark, alone they consume itself, but, with their nemesis, a light without dark can't shine, a dark without light can't shade, the world might seem at peace and the unnatural unseen, but all the ambition lies in the dark making it the world completely darked. Wield, just this time...
a rant was detected.

I'd like more retextures but I see that would make the mod overweight.

All the playthroughs I had, the darkness always find it's way to succumb the players, of course, they're the only ones that can unveil the dark corners of the world and become one with it. But I never seen darkness without some measure of light, and there are some concepts I don't correctly understand, but I might learn them.


lore-wise I always sell my services to lords, Nords love the undead it seems, they always pay more for mercenary necromancers.

Assuming players choose to be Sea Raiders, that makes them friendly with the faction? if not, perhaps it should y'know, being able to recruit more Sea Raiders from ther hideouts would be such a huge improvement to the class, and making some players less reliant on mercenaries, villagers, or even the undead added benefit for going Antihero. If you do, please add a extort feature, I'd love to squeeze some money of those pesky shopkeepers and village elders in exchange for a intact non-plundered way of life. That opens a new path for a outlaw life, but not strickly evil, and not totally honest, a thread in between. You're not a evil necromancer yet nor a honest person. I like to waylaying carts is great, but getting enemy with a faction ain't cool. Also, have you added more assassin quests? I keep getting kill quests from lords when I'm a assassin, that gives me an idea, when you're criminal you could place thieves in towns and get a loot weekly from their activities, if possible of course.

Have you ever thought about adding Animated Armors? you already created a magical flying sword with a soul of a demon. A few enchanting never yielding living armors troops could be awesome, more likely alchemical than enchanted I think. Makes me remember the golems, they're not strickly undead, more of a alchemical construct right?

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Talking about starting classes, could I ever be a seer whilst being a troubadour?

Thanks for giving me your time N0ught, I appreciate the honesty and straightforwardness for long time players and fans of the mod. Above is just the current suggestions and opinions, I keep playing and finding more, and will give more suggestions if you'd like.

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The shadows guide through light and dark, shade, shine, natural order of balance, may everyone and everything, shine in shade.
perpetuated by darkness and light, lives a greyed gray.
-Society Oculum Veritas, invisible illuminated.

1 ~ I have considered enhancing Manhunters somehow... perhaps I will include that as part of the Antihero storyline, when it arches into the new faction being born. You begin the pretender quests, and if successful, Manhunters become groups of Dark Hunters and Black Knights, to pay homage to the older versions of the game? I like it.

2 ~ There will be much more to do after Hades in the next release. In fact, defeating Hades will be necessary to start the quests to bring the "Evil" faction about - he makes a prophecy, and all hell breaks loose, so to speak.

3 ~ Many things will be retextured. In fact, I forsee a release that may be little more than a texture fix for everything, in the distant future...

4 ~ The concept of "bandit" types in this mod is that they only work together out of necessity - bandits will prey even on each other, if given proper reason. This includes Necromancer parties, and this is also the reason why the concept of Scavengers came about. So Sea Raider characters can be considered neutral - you can plunder bandits and villagers alike, and make quite a name for yourself in the process if you want. I do like the suggestion for Sea Raider characters to have the ability to extort money from villages, but that would almost be redundant, since you can choose to raid the village anyway, via the "take a hostile action" menu.

5 ~ Specific Assassin character quests may be added at some point. Until then, Assassin characters already do get double pay and reputation rewards for any quest that involves killing someone.

6 ~ Animated Armor may be making an appearance at some point. Something that I have rolled around for a while. I think I may make "The Easterner" summonable as an invisible ghost, wearing The Rising Sun set - it would require the sacrifice of all pieces of that set, which, after the midgame, would be an easy sacrifice. I also think the player needs access to some invisible armor - this being a single-player mod, it would be a purely cosmetic change, but fun.

7 ~ I have meant to set up a lot of rather diabolical choices for character creation - it is to the point that even I struggle when making a character... do I make his father a Mortician, and get the bonus to preserve 10 undead at a time, and the powerful throwing weapon Coffin Nails, or do I make his father an Anarchist, and receive the powerful Old Cookbook? All these choices vastly enhance and drastically change your game experience throughout. So the short answer is, you will always have to choose either Seer or Troubadour. I like the way such things encourage truly Hardcore play, via creation of purely random characters, and also the way it encourages people to play multiple characters. Variety is the spice of life, and I like to think that the Solid and Shade (un)life has gotten rather tasty with time... 

Awesome news!

I was thinking about older versions when writing about those pesky manhunters, it's kinda a homage truly, I loved that Crossbow set, they could be like witchhunters, manhunters, witch-hunters, dark hunters and black knights are really cool too, having them come back woud be something truly unique.

When playing normaly, I always try to be the best warrior in the world, I gather most relics and aspire to become the ultimate warrior who sudden loses his mind and succumb to the dark powers, to sum I try to stay as neutral as possible, which I tell you, it's really hard.

That extort option could be a less destructive way of getting resources, because really, if you don't plunder the hell of some villagers, and you're not into grave robbing, it's a mess to get some resources and many recipes are very costly, extortion could work as a weekly pay of "collected" resources for a month, once a month passes the village stop paying extortion and players either come  back to extort more and have a few "unexpected" surprises or the village is quite poor and won't be able to pay and would prefer to be looted, I already see you devils plundering those poor, poorly villagers for refusing to pay. The weekly payment is assuming the village does not get looted by parties or attacked by bandits, on the sea raider recruiting; it would be really a differ and better way of getting them, can't go knocking them and prisioner=recruiting, expading further the Sea Raider class makes it really more tempting right? I already see myself choosing this class just to have a steady way of getting resources, troops and currency, but like most of S&S having it's cost for doing so, perhaps also you could expand the Sea raider troop tree, so this class players can invest in these units and get specialized troops, but nothing grandeur.

Question:
Becoming antihero means that I can't use necromantic artifacts or pledge myself to the fountain, but what of University players? they start with necromantic artifacts.

An living armor seems like a dangerous opposing force, it's basically an spirit inside the armor, and how can you killit? give these bastards 10 iron skin just for fun 
note: depeding on the armor, of course.

Getting better pay and quests are great thing about the assassins, but compared with other classes, have you thought about adding assassin units that only assassins get?

Character creation is hard, I second that.

Heh, Hades is quite the bastard, he sure brings a hell before hell breaks loose on caraldia, and will the key.. oh great, hahahah, I see I must prepare myself for a serious campaign in the future

I don't know much about the Pretender, is he a claimant or the player?

the Antihero was an awesome idea, it's not easy but rewards very well. And I have though times trying to become one, so much to avoid!

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Thanks again for the attention in detail N0ught, I appreciate it.

Gryffindor said:

Question:
Becoming antihero means that I can't use necromantic artifacts or pledge myself to the fountain, but what of University players? they start with necromantic artifacts.

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Actually the only real limitation on being an antihero is that you must never speak to the Bloodfountain until level 30. You can still use the necromantic artifacts (if you start with them as a University Student; this is the only way without becoming a Necromancer), and you can still use necromantic weapons, armor, and mounts you can scavenge from necromancer parties, and you can still recruit Acolytes at taverns, and other necromantic troops via rescuing from other parties, etc.

Gryffindor said:

I don't know much about the Pretender, is he a claimant or the player?

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I meant the claimant. Sorry. In the code he is referred to as a "pretender", and all this coding gets to you after a while. 

So I gather major updates are coming next. And a few for aesthetics, great! add dismemberment, more blood and decaptation

I'm playing a lvl 26 aspirant to antihero, I didn't know vampires could be so deadly, 26 army of them, killed me and my retinue. And I become a headless rider, so I assume I can't become a Antihero anymore?

You can be a Ghost and an Antihero at the same time - in fact the only two mutually exclusive "states of being" in the mod are Vampire and Werewolf.

So there's no chance of a hybrid? Because a hybrid would be cool. 

I rather like the mutual exclusivity - it really divides many aspects of the mod in half at higher levels, and I am oh-so-fond of the diabolical choice. This will be even more profound when Vampires and Werewolves have allergies to salt and silver. But you never know - I have ceased ruling many things out that I once said would never happen.

What about a companion who is a Necro-hunter.  Maybe just revamping Marnid so he has tools to hunt the undead.

-Personal gameplay showed me that werewolves and vampires need to be nerfed, you can siege castles, even cities with 3 lycantropes and a army of patchworks and win. In this case I was using putrid revenants as army.

-Some dialogues could be worked when players assumes a "form" of unlife, wether ghost or other, so that npcs may know he is undead or immortal, more RP.

-Diamonds are quite rare at 30 level, you must either cheat or spend hours trying to find one.

-Becoming antihero is truly worth it, a very glorified achievement, but I must say.. I'm kinda disappointed, for all the stats increases and helmet and weapon (which are awesome), they could get something more, it is truly an exhausting sacrifice, perhaps an set of armor to match and even an mount (manticore) to match greatness, also instead of getting such set just by reaching level 30, they could be placed somewhere and be waiting to be found and collected.

-Late 30 level the world is filled with +110 undead army parties, which eventually undermine all lords nearby Zendor, making easy pickings for warring lords, in that part, there aren't not even a single manhunter party alive, they are all either captured or in RP, turned (un)dead.