ON HOLD - Pike & Blade Merged v3.3.2 (Needs to be updated to 1.143/DP 4.1)

OK wait.  That's a multiplayer script.  Is that really gonna work on single player?

EDIT: OK nevermind.  Everything I've found so far in digging into this already presumes that the people involved know WHAT to edit.  And what to edit it WITH.  I don't.  I'm going to have to settle for good enough unless someone wants to either do it for me or walk me through it.

imgran said:

OK wait.  That's a multiplayer script.  Is that really gonna work on single player?

Click to expand...

      (this_or_next|multiplayer_is_server),
      (neg|game_in_multiplayer_mode),
This just makes sure it isn't the player's computer in multiplayer. The neg|game_in_multiplayer says it is a single player game and will be fine. In fact, you could delete those two lines if you wanted.

Similarly, if you want this to go for all non-hero troops (anyone not a lord, not a companion, not the player), you could replace
      (eq, ":troop", "trp_YOUR_TROOP"),
with (neg|troop_is_hero, ":troop"),

And then not worry about defining anything for specific troops.

OK with that answered (seriously, thanks), please help me with this very basic problem.

I don't know what file to put that thing in.  Scripts.txt is just a buncha numbers.  If this needs a Python editor I don't have one.  So I need to know where to dump this thing and whether or not I need to go looking for a low end compiler or whatever just to put it in.

Thanks for your help.  I'm hoping to reward you with a mod that works uniquely well with your work on PBOD.  If I can get that script working, I think I'm close.

To go from Module System code to the .txt files, you do need Python 2.6.6 and the Module System of the mod you're planning to add this to. The Forge has a fairly straightforward tutorial on setting the MS up and getting the compiler to do its thing with Python, found in the Documentation section.

Alright, I'll give it a shot.  Wish me luck.  I've already proven I want this to work more than I want it to be easy.  Might as well go for the brass ring.

*buries face in hand*

Every guide I've seen presumes the kind of knowledge any experienced coder obviously takes for granted, but without that very basic stuff, is absolutely useless to me.

Anywho I'm in some luck, as Bismark released his module code.  So this is still possible.  If I can just... figure... out... how!

I *think* I've got this done correctly.  It overwrote my troops.txt so the module deployed properly anyway.

Time to port in my troop tree and see if it worked.

Well it isn't perfect but it definitely seems to increase the odds.  I've seen troops that didn't look like they had a given weapon produce said article out of thin air, so it might work better than it looks like it does.

Uploading NMC-Full version soon.

The use of the slashing polearms (military scythe, poleaxe) for the Rhodoks seems to make that troop tree work -- at least work a lot better than native.

imgran said:

I've seen troops that didn't look like they had a given weapon produce said article out of thin air, so it might work better than it looks like it does.

Click to expand...

I believe this. If more than one weapon should be carried in the same place (on the hip/back) then the other won't show, but could still be equipped.

Glad to hear you got it working! Congrats on your first mod system endeavor!

I only gave it a very quick test.  I'm relying on my small audience base to give me more than that.  So this is very tentative.

Tell ya what, I'm seriously spamming the P&B&D thread.  At this point I probably should make my own, as I have a semi-finished product that is not a P&B&D merge.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=KKGE5JDA

There.  I'm gonna call that v1.0

If you make your own thread, drop a link here if you would. Also, I personally use Notepad++ for python editing the module system. Its pretty handy, and works with a slew of other file types too. I suggest checking it out just to see what you like better.

Downloading the new version now, I'll give it a go tonight and/or tomorrow and let you know how it goes. And, as Caba'drin said, congratulations on your first foray into MS editing!


[Update] I've been playing around with it today and I really like it. I can only speak for the Nords but everything seems to be working as intended on the equipment front, which makes training troops up a hell of a lot less irritating and significantly reduces attrition aswell.

It's all been bandits and trading up to this point so I'm not sure how it'll work out in a real battle. I'm a little concerned that there might not be enough types of troop to fill all the necessary roles (without holding some back at lower tiers, at least) but I'll have leave that question for someone with an exported character they can use to test it.

There's one small error in the Nord troop tree, meaning that a Nord Skirmisher upgrades into a Swadian Militia Pikeman, but having corrected that I see that it's just a typo or misclick; the Nord Vet. Skirmisher is at 997 and the Swad. Militia Pikeman at 998.

Ahh, thanks for that, it will be corrected in my version.

THe error came from my solution to an earlier bug, the one with the total map craziness. Basically everything after the faction troops was off by one and when I fixed it by assigning a faction troop to the bottom of the tree, it put the upgrade chains off by one.  I got most of it but apparently I missed one.  Would be interested in hearing of any others you see.

Having some serious trouble against cavalry as the Nords. I'm thinking it'd be really useful to give the Fyrdman line spears probably instead of one-handed axes* and possibly reintroduce a line of shock troops with one- and two-handed axes, a small shield and some light or medium armour. Alternatively,  a Berserker line might work in that role, with light armour (if any) but very high strength and ironflesh to compensate, assuming that would actually work out in practice.

I've been thinking about the skirmishers a little aswell and I'm starting to think they're just a little over-equipped. The mail on the veterans certainly improves their survivability in melee but sticking with light armour (or maybe medium) would leave them faster on their feet. Allied to that, a thrown weapon with lower Power Throw requirements and larger stacks would help their accuracy and overall effectiveness; it's pretty difficult to level them up without using them as shock troops, which feels pretty weird. With orders to skirmish (Avoid Melee in PBOD) they have very little impact on a fight.

*Actually, in place of the two-hander would be better to retain a clear role (the shield line that forms the army's backbone) and possibly reduce the number of thrown weapons they carry, aswell. One stack of throwing axes or war darts would be enough and they'd wouldn't be stepping quite so heavily on the skirmishers' toes.

The thing to do as the Nords, is pile your men in a mass 3 or 4 ranks deep and let the horsemen plow right into the middle of it.  The ensuing mob will bog down individual horsemen and finish them fairly handily.

Also you might not be aware of this, but advanced Fyrdman classes have the Long Axe, which can double as a polearm.

But yeah the Nords aren't ever going to really match up well against the Khergits in the open field.  On the other hand, they ought to completely own them in siege.

That's fair enough, if it all fits with your vision. It's pretty much nitpicking and personal preference but, as an almost-exclusive Nord player I don't think it's really a troop tree I could stick with long-term, sorry.

Hmm.  How would you improve it?  I didn't really think the Nordish tree through very carefully and wouldn't mind implementing a few good ideas to flesh them out.

I don't want to add more than a couple new units though, Thorberg, because I want to keep the troop tree fairly compact.  Abominations like the Floris tree just get confusing without the "view upgrade trees" option which I don't know how to do properly.

BTW does anyone think the Swadians need a little strengthening?.

Also:  Taking a count of the troops I forgot to add Boots to.  So far I've got Swadian Footmen of a couple different flavors, and the Vaegir Slavecatcher.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=THMR2R0H

Try this Thorberg.  I've tried to implement your suggestions in an optional upgrade.  See what it does.

Note:  I didn't change the upgrade trees or add any units so this should be fully save game compatible

I'm sorry I missed your request for ideas and the update, I'll give it a whirl and get back to you.

I've also got even more respect for what you've pulled off after spending nearly all day trying to implement the force_weapon script into P&B+Diplomacy+PBOD. I swear, my attempts at module system editing are driving me mad.


On the topic of ideas for the Nord tree, I actually spent most of yesterday evening researching the Anglo-Saxon professional and semi-professional soldiers the troops are named after. I've got equipment lists for most of the troops based on second-hand interpretation of historical texts which you're welcome to if it interests you at all.

My main problem with the Nord tree was that it was a bit of a one-trick pony - axes, axes and more axes - which wasn't really either practical or culturally convincing. Thrown weapons were typically "javelins" (though the term then meant something more like the war darts in game) and the main weapon carried by all fyrdmen was a spear, maybe with a sword as a side-arm.

Huscarls (and, I think we can assume for this purpose, Thegns) might have had a spear but certainly weren't required to, as were the fyrdmen. They were expected to own a sword (a very fine sword, according to the texts - something about hilts inlaid with gold) and shield, in addition to their mail and helm, but the weapon they were known for was a 2-handed axe. The information I found also specified them as the ones known to carry the javelins.

The men making up the armies all seemed to be expected to have a horse but only for the purposes of travelling, not for fighting upon.

There aren't really any historical troops I found mentioned as skirmishers but lithsmen and butsecarls were talked about as specialist ship's crews who were often hired as mercenaries. It seems they didn't fight literally at sea but would almost always drive their enemies to the shore and fight there. Given that they spent most of their time aboard boats it seems likely they'd wear armour that wouldn't drag them immediately to the bottom, should they fall overboard, and carry a decent supply of bows or javelins to harry opponents which makes them a reasonable point of inspiration for the skirmisher line.

There was also a brief mention of the sort of weapons used by townspeople forced to defend their homes (a good start for the recruits) but the list is, unsurprisingly, just tools of their trades pressed into service as weapons; hunting spears, hunting bows, wood axes, knives etc.

Sorry for going on at such length, I'll get back to you about the adjustments.

EDIT: Oops, one last thing I forgot. Part of the issue facing down cavalry was the horse stats; I assume you already know, and have a reason, but you've got native horses rather than Aeon's P&B versions which makes an immense difference.