Affiliate to a family

[Aeon]

So you gave oath to your king.
Now what about to affiliate within a family from that faction ?

* Only as vassal *

You would gain honorific rank " [player_name], from the house of [family_name]. "

Family include the referent lord (the one you talk with to be affiliated), and his family. Check it from ingame menu:    Notes>Characters> #Family
(But not "the family of the family member" ! that would extend too much)





Required :

• Should first have joined faction family.
• Should not be already affiliated to another family.
• Relation with referent lord should not be negative ( >= 0).

If lord character = martial , then player renown required >= lord renown
If lord character = cunning , then player right-to-rule required >= 10
If lord character = sadistic/debauched , then player honor required < -7 (because easier to become dishonorable than honorable)
If lord character = upstanding , then player honor required > +5
If lord character = goodnatured, then faction relation required >= 90 (don't be afraid it's really easy)
If lord character = selfrighteous/pitiless , then player's fortune (money) required >= (lord renown) * 65
If lord character = default/custodian or quarrelsome/badtempered, then player relation with lord required >= 14

• Talk to lord.

Try to persuade him (one attempt per week).

(click to show/hide)

_persuasion = [player persuasion]
_controversy = [player controversy]
_lord_renown = [lord renown]
_relations = [family relations] (relation addition of brothers,sisters,sons, ...anybody referenced on lord sheet as family)
_x = 0

if (_relations <= 0) then {exit}

#Loop
_R1 = Random (_lord_renown) + _controversy
_R2 = Random (_relations)

if (_x > _persuasion) then {exit} else {_x =_x +1}
if (_R1 >= _R2) then {goto #Loop}

[success affiliation]

exit

Effects :

• Relation with each family member increased (if >= 0 then +10 . If negative, then set to zero). 
• Relation with each family member increased monthly (+4). 
• Relation with rivals of each family members affected (-8).
• Family members could not refuse to marry daughter to you.
• No tax when resting inside family owner castle/town.
• If family member defeated, -3 relation point with every family members. Since you appears not able to protect them.
• If family member emprisoned, -4 relation points per week with him. Since you no worry and no hurry to rescue him.

(click to show/hide)

Break alliance :
 You will cease to be affiliated to family if :

• Ask to lord referent about it
• Have hostile enemy within family member (I think AI lord party attack on sight when relation is below -20, Am I right ?)
• Break oath with current king faction. Or become king of your own kingdom.

Aftermaths :

• Relation penaty -18 pts with each family members.
• Relation with (ex)family member rivals improved (+8pts)
• Honor -2 pts penalty.
• You cannot join that family anymore.
• You can join another faction family.

Still a suggestion, value & ideas are prone to change, please tell what is wrong for you.
PS : I would write dialogs if interested about that suggestion.

[Waihti]

I like the idea. If you want to write some example dialogs go ahead so we can talk about it. I guess you want different dialogs according to character type?

No tax when resting inside family owner castle/town.

You mean no costs for troops in your party?

Aftermaths :

    * Relation penaty -18 pts with each family members.
    * Relation with (ex)family member rivals improved (+8pts)
    * Honor -2 pts penalty.
    * You cannot join that family anymore.
    * You can join another faction family.

Should depend on how you leave the family.

[Aeon]

(click to show/hide)

I guess you want different dialogs according to character type?

Indeed.
But if too complex, just say it and we would aim to only few generic sentences.

You mean no costs for troops in your party?

It's not about troops wages, but to save daily tax when "waiting here some time" (just like if you were in your castle/town).

Dialogs structure

- Generic dialog
- Generic dialog (but with variable)
- Specific dialog

PLAYER_request	NPC_reject_not_faction
	NPC_reject_already_affiliated
	NPC_reject_bad_relation
	NPC_requirement_no
	NPC_requirement_yes	PLAYER_reconsider
		PLAYER_attempt_persuasion	NPC_convinced_no
			NPC_convinced_yes	PLAYER_thanks	NPC_conclusion

PLAYER_request
I have great respect for your lineage, I wish to be affiliated to your family.

NPC_reject_not_faction
No, you are not even a congener.

NPC_reject_already_affiliated
You are already affiliated with [Title+Lord_name]'s family.

NPC_reject_bad_relation
Not a chance. Since I dislike you, I will not sponsor you.

PLAYER_reconsider
On second thought, I should consider again a such obligation.

PLAYER_attempt_persuasion
Please sir, let me plead our compaternity. [PERSUASION]

NPC_convinced_no
Maybe I have not good enough appraisal from my family about you. Or maybe I just need some time to get used to the idea. Let's talk further about it next week.

PLAYER_thanks
I am honored and grateful to be affiliated with your family, [Title+Lord_name].

NPC_conclusion
You have pledged allegiance to our family, now every members are your brethren. Our fellowship is about knighthood : Never betray your family, always protect it.





Martial

NPC_requirement_no
Since you are not a blood relative of my clan, you should win your spurs by making streams of the adversary blood.

NPC_requirement_yes
You have shown great strength on the battlefield. But why should I enlist you within us ?

NPC_convinced_yes
Agreed ! Your words convice me as much as your blade.

Cunning

NPC_requirement_no
In the interest of the family, you should first show you are capable of defending our interests.
In the interest of the family, I must valuate any ally potential. Your aspirations are still trivial.

NPC_requirement_yes
All of life is about pros and cons. Why would we allow you to be our fellow ?

NPC_convinced_yes
I trust in you, my family could use your resourcefulness. Together we will spread our influence over all of Calradia.

Sadistic/Debauched

NPC_requirement_no
Forget it, squirt ! I've earned the respect for myself and my family, using dread. You have no iron fist.

NPC_requirement_yes
Fine, people DO fear your harshness. Should we though ?

NPC_convinced_yes
Exciting outlook, I admit. May God have mercy on our enemy souls, because we WON'T !

Upstanding

NPC_requirement_no
Currently I will not stake my reputation with you. Unless you can prove to be a noble-minded knight.

NPC_requirement_yes
Indeed, I have heard of your loyalty and valiance. But is it enough to join us ?

NPC_convinced_yes
True, so be it. We will be honored to accept you into our family.

Goodnatured

NPC_requirement_no
I'm afraid that action could displease our people. You are not popular enough among the kingdom.

NPC_requirement_yes
I'm glad you want to support us; however, would it be wise for you, to affiliate to our family ?

NPC_convinced_yes
You are right. I will appreciate you as much as a son.

Selfrighteous/pitiless

NPC_requirement_no
It would hinder me to uphold a such deprived soul. You have to fill your purse first.

NPC_requirement_yes
Beside your wealth, how could you possibly serve me and my family ?

NPC_convinced_yes
I accept your request. We will support you, on one condition, you support my family.

Default/custodian or Quarrelsome/badtempered

NPC_requirement_no
I haven't yet mustered enough esteem to vouch for you. It behove you to make a friend of mine.

NPC_requirement_yes
My friend, I see you reasoning. But would you really risk our friendship on partenership ?

NPC_convinced_yes
Since you have turned out to be a worthy fellow, you should be worthy for our entire family.

Not yet leaving dialogs, since idea need to be enhanced.
I'm not english native, so if you are, and point out few dialogs mistake/misunderstood; (or if you have better ones), please notice it.

[Bandw2]

Martial

NPC_requirement_no
Since you are not blood related (related in blood/ a blood relative of my clan) with my clan, (you should{seems to break sentence flow}) win your spurs by (making streams of the enemies {maybe adversary}{ kingdom breaks sentence flow and seems redundent} blood) streaming kingdom enemy's blood.

NPC_requirement_yes
You (have) shown great strength on (the) battlefield. But why should I draft (draft isnt used in this way, need another word) you within us ?

NPC_convinced_yes
I hail ! (i dont under stand, if this is a exclamation, it makes no sence in english) Your words convice (me) as much as your blade.

Cunning

NPC_requirement_no
In the interest of the family, you should first be able to (show you are capable of) defend(ing) our interests, from stronghold estate. (once again confused, consider removing entirely, creates a run on)

NPC_requirement_yes
All (of Life) is about pros and cons. Why would you (we allow you to) be our fellow ?

NPC_convinced_yes
I trust (in) you, my family need your resourcefulness. (either, needs, or could use) Together we will spread our influence(,) all over (over all of) Calradia.

Sadistic/Debauched

NPC_requirement_no
Forget it, you bleeding heart ! (nonsence swear in english, carries low immersion, consider replacing) I've earned (the) respect for me and my family (myself and my family), with  (using) dread. You haven't (have no) a such iron fist. (add resolution, for isntance "come back when your Dread, is known through all the land)

NPC_requirement_yes
Well (conotation, makes the word feal like defeated here/ repalce with an exlamitory word, liek congrats), people (DO, {capitalize to add stress to word}) fear your harshness. Should we so (though)(?) , me and my family ? (repetative)

NPC_convinced_yes
Exciting outlook, I admit. May the Devil (God {just inclines to show a evil charecter isntead of a dreaded charecter, dreaded charecters can still be god fearing christians}) spare our enemies (have mercy on their souls {makes a more dramatic impact, gives out a general fealing of "KILL KILL KILL"}), because we won't !(consider capitalizing wont, for stress)

Upstanding

NPC_requirement_no
Currently I would (will, {would = it already happened}) not stake my reputation by affiliating (too redundent and flow breaking) with you. Unless you turn out (can prove) to be a noble-minded knight.

NPC_requirement_yes
Indeed(,) you are loyal and vailant (i have heard of your Loyalty and valliance). But are you (is it) enough to join us ?

NPC_convinced_yes
True, so be it. My fellow, be proud to honor our family.( we will be honored to accept you into our family{consider fold},{he is the humble, valiant knight, you put it backwards here})

Goodnatured

NPC_requirement_no
I'm afraid that (action could) might displease our people. You are not enough popular (popular enough) among the (consider "my" instead of "the") kingdom.

NPC_requirement_yes
I'm glad you want to support us.(,/not .) However, would it be wise (for you,) to affiliate you to our family ?

NPC_convinced_yes
You are welcome (right). I (will) appreciate you as much as a son. (you jsut convinced him, sentence makes no sence)

Selfrighteous/pitiless

NPC_requirement_no
It would hinder me to uphold a such deprived ally (your not an ally yet, change to soul). You have to (show you can) prosper first.

NPC_requirement_yes
Beside your wealth.(,)  (h)How would (could) you (possibly) serve me and my family ? (adds that extra selfrighteous)

NPC_convinced_yes
I assent (accept ) your request. We will support you, as long as (on one condition,) you support our (change to "my", instead of "our", to add selfrighteousness) family.

Default/custodian or Quarrelsome/badtempered

NPC_requirement_no
I haven't yet (mustered) enough esteem to vouch for you. It behove you to turn reputable to me. (lol what?, anyway, {return to me when, and only when, you are more reputable)

NPC_requirement_yes
My dear (is demasculine, makes little sence with male chars, change too "why yes"), I hear your request (see you reasoning). But would you (would you really, or is it wise to) risk our friendship on partenership ?

NPC_convinced_yes
Since you (have) turned out to be a worthy fellow, you should be so (worthy) for our whole (entire) family.

Not yet leaving dialogs, since idea need to be enhanced.
I'm not english native, so if you are, and point out few dialogs mistake/misunderstood; (or if you have better ones), please notice it.

everythings inside the quote. NOTE: i make spelling mistakes but I'm very good with grammar. (note again, a language isnt jsut grammar but coercion of the ideas, in dialouge you have to check to make sure the dieas still make sence as, saying in one language have a diffrent meaning in another launguage, i've come into general contact with 3 languages i would know) (consider repalcign all the "fellows with friend)

bolded words are repalced by what follwos in the ()
slashed liens are remvoed or repalced suusualy with better sentences or words (that i think, in most cases) change the meaning. not sure how much i kept the ruels for the two

[Aeon]

Thanks Bandw2  !
I really appreciate your help. I've updated dialogs (according to your recommendations).

Here few words I changed too :
draft -> enlist
I hail -> agreed
you bleeding heart -> squirt




There is two of your language suggestions I rather don't match to :

You are not enough popular (popular enough) among the (consider "my" instead of "the") kingdom

Not "my kingdom" since player could not be affiliated with any king, and have first to join a faction before accessing that dialog. (because of NPC_reject_not_faction)

I haven't yet (mustered) enough esteem to vouch for you. It behove you to turn reputable to me. (lol what?, anyway, {return to me when, and only when, you are more reputable)

I think this will fit better : "I haven't yet mustered enough esteem to vouch for you. It behove you to make a friend of mine"

It would hinder me to uphold a such deprived ally (your not an ally yet, change to soul). You have to (show you can) prosper first.

"It would hinder me to uphold a such deprived soul. You have to fill your purse first."




I request your help or idea about NPC_requirement_no dialog of Cunning personality :
How (subtly) suggest player to conquest and rule a castle/town as fief ? (this is primary condition to access persuasion step).

[Paradoxis]

Perhaps for cunning you can try

"Perhaps you ought to show us just how you are able to further my family's interest?"

Tells you to prove yourself by bringing benefits to his family and everyone ought to be quite clear just how taking a fief can greatly boost a family's standings in the king's eyes.

[Waihti]

Well done, Aeon. I guess I will include it in the next version.

[Aeon]

Thanks, but please allow me some time (cancel affiliation pledge & dialogs not finished yet).
---
* Changed Cunning referent lord condition (check "right to rule" rather than fief).
* Values tweaked

[Paradoxis]

Error spotted on replies of upstanding.
It should be "valor" not "valiance"

[Waihti]

Thanks, but please allow me some time (cancel affiliation pledge & dialogs not finished yet).
---
* Changed Cunning referent lord condition (check "right to rule" rather than fief).
* Values tweaked

If lord character = cunning , then player right-to-rule required >= 10
If lord character = sadistic/debauched , then player honor required < -7 (because easier to become dishonorable than honorable)
If lord character = upstanding , then player honor required > +5

seems to be to easy now I liked the fief requirement (maybe even combined with right to rule) and higher honor values more

[Aeon]

(click to show/hide)

seems to be to easy now I liked the fief requirement (maybe even combined with right to rule) and higher honor values more

I thought number variable seem easier to manipulate with code operator, but as I mentionned : currently this is just a concept, everybody (and you more than other) are invited to perfect it. So if you prefere fief requirement, just tell it and I will correct back.

Indeed Cunning , Sadistic/debauched , Upstanding , characters have more accessible condition. But according to my opinion, this tweak was intend to suit and balance with others characters condition (goodnatured , selfrighteous/pitiless , default/custodian/quarrelsome/badtempered). Again, correct it if needed. 

Breaking alliance


1- Inform referent lord you break your pledge.

Logically, this dialog option should be available only with the referent Lord (the one that "hired" you), and no other membership of his family.

- Generic dialog
- Generic dialog (but with variable)

PLAYER_quit_family_1	NPC_ask_confirm	PLAYER_reconsider
		PLAYER_quit_family_2	NPC_reject_player	PLAYER_dismiss

PLAYER_quit_family_1
I have done my share with your family, I want to be discharged of my pledge.

NPC_ask_confirm
What did you say [player_name] ?

PLAYER_reconsider
Nothing godfather.

PLAYER_quit_family_2
I do not want to be related to your house anymore.

NPC_reject_player
You dare stand and face me to declaim your disavowal ! Well, your betrayal cannot make up for frankness. ^You disappoint the confidence my clan have put in you, [player_name]. Each will condemn you in all conscience... but since I avouched your phoney allegiance, I will personally report to Calradia noblemen about your frivolous plot.

PLAYER_dismiss
I dismiss now.

Aftermaths :

(click to show/hide)

(Disable PLAYER_request dialog option for him and his family members list)

(click to show/hide)

_persuasion = [player persuasion]
_max_penalty = 14 
_relation_penalty = _max_penalty - (Random _persuasion)
if (_relation_penalty < 0) then {_relation_penalty = 0}

"For Each in this array" code stuff... (brother,sister,son,etc..)

(click to show/hide)

_term = 15
_honor = [player honor]  // Honorable player must stay loyal longer
if (_honor > 5) then {_term = _term + 5} else {_term = _term + _honor} // term with honor cap

_controversy_penalty = _term - [number of days past while affiliated to this family]  // is it possible to count that ?
if (_controversy_penalty < 0) then {_controversy_penalty = 0}

(click to show/hide)

If referent lord was martial, [ Matheld / Alayen ]
If referent lord was cunning, [ Baheshtur / Rolf ]
If referent lord was sadistic/debauched, [ Borcha / Nizar / Klethi ]
If referent lord was upstanding, [ Firentis ]
If referent lord was goodnatured, [ Ymira / Bunduk / Jeremus ]
If referent lord was selfrighteous/pitiless, [ Lezalit ]
If referent lord was default/custodian or quarrelsome/badtempered, [ Marnid / Deshavi / Katrin / Artimenner ]
_leadership = [player leadership]
_persuasion = [player persuasion]
_lord_renown = [referent lord renown]
_factor = (_persuasion * 2) + _leadership
_penalty = _lord_renown / _factor

2- Casted out because of bad relation

If referent Lord or any membership of the family reach bad relation > -19 , then that worst one (let's call it "enemy family member") will trigger your ban.
No dialog, just displayed text (message from referent lord, send by messager) :
 
" ^ " type caracter are used as wrap in .csv file. 

2a- "Enemy family member" IS referent Lord

[player_name], ^^I always knew you were a bad egg, since the day you have pledged allegiance to my clan. ^Did you really think you could set MY family against ME ? You've dropped your mask, you silly snake ! You are an infliction, and I will not bear it anymore. ^Hereby, I disown and ban you from my house. I have urged my family to fight you, and I will warn Calradia lords about your infamy. ^Tremble with fear, bloody [player_name], because you made a deadly enemy of me ! ^^[referent_lord_name]

2b- "Enemy family member" is NOT referent Lord

[player_name],^^ I've received a letter from [enemy_family_member_name], telling me about your disgracefull jiggery-pokery. In the present circumstances, [enemy_family_member_name] could not provide evidence. But unlike you, {he/she} is a distinguished member of my familly; and since all these years, I never had any reason to distrust {him/her}. I take {his/her} charges for granted. ^Hopefully, you failed to breakup my family unit. Hereby I reject your pledge : you are no longer related to my house. Each membership will retaliate against you in all conscience... ^I would be ashamed to confess how you maliciously fooled me, so I will not challenge you, to not be accountable for your death to my King. However I'm not used to report him every rat I crush while in wilderness, someday I may find you there ! ^^[referent_lord_name]

Aftermaths :

(click to show/hide)

(Disable PLAYER_request dialog option for him and his family members list)

(click to show/hide)

_persuasion = [player persuasion]
_max_penalty = 16 
_relation_penalty = _max_penalty - (Random _persuasion)
if (_relation_penalty < 0) then {_relation_penalty = 0}

"For Each in this array" code stuff... (brother,sister,son,etc..)

(click to show/hide)

_term = 20
_honor = [player honor]  // Honorable player must stay loyal longer
if (_honor > 10) then {_term = _term + 10} else {_term = _term + _honor} // term with honor cap

_controversy_penalty = _term - [number of days past while affiliated to this family]  // is it possible to count that ?
if (_controversy_penalty < 0) then {_controversy_penalty = 0}

(click to show/hide)

If referent lord was martial, [ Matheld / Alayen ]
If referent lord was cunning, [ Baheshtur / Rolf ]
If referent lord was sadistic/debauched, [ Borcha / Nizar / Klethi ]
If referent lord was upstanding, [ Firentis ]
If referent lord was goodnatured, [ Ymira / Bunduk / Jeremus ]
If referent lord was selfrighteous/pitiless, [ Lezalit ]
If referent lord was default/custodian or quarrelsome/badtempered, [ Marnid / Deshavi / Katrin / Artimenner ]
_leadership = [player leadership]
_persuasion = [player persuasion]
_lord_renown = [referent lord renown]
_factor = (_persuasion * 2) + _leadership
_penalty = _lord_renown / _factor

3- Casted out because of sedition (own kingdom)

** Work in progress **

[Paradoxis]

Where they can ban you, so should you be able to ban them with exception to the head of the house. Each family should have their own set of rules regarding how a person should be qualified for a ban. Perhaps an affiliate of the family has been losing too many fights, sadistic family heads will be inclined to ban tthem as they are a disgrace.

If you initiated the ban, relations with the banned member drops while relations with the head and all supportive members will rise due to you having served in the family's interest.

Of course after having served long enough, you can request for an honorable discharge from being an affiliate. (Requirements might include something along the lines of the family interest and you must have a high relation with the family head. A dialogue might even appear for you to request marriage with the head's daughter and for you to leave his family to start a new family. Your new family will start as a allied family to his, sorta like a mini alliance between 2 clans.)

[Paradoxis]

When i look at the family system as a whole, it strikes me of what it seems like in a nutshell.

A nation is large group of families. A family is a large group of people that acts as their own nation. They have nothing to do with other family except to treat each other a little better when rallied under their king's flag.

Families tend to treat other families with little to no warmth unless they are allied families.

Families are basically mini-nations rallied under one flag.

[Paradoxis]

I am requesting to have this thread stickied! You deserve at least this much for efforts alone not including the grand spankin idea you have suggested and the looks of it as it is now

[Aeon]

Each family should have their own set of rules regarding how a person should be qualified for a ban.

Rather "Each referent/head lord", since some inner family membership have different personalities.
I guess that would start a fourth way of being banned. Yes very Interesting, but maybe Waihti have enough to do so far with that project (?)
Beside, my imagination and brain might be tired, need fresh point of view.

Of course after having served long enough, you can request for an honorable discharge from being an affiliate.

This is already planned for controversy penalty. And don't forget you get +4 pts relation per month.
So, with great persuasion skill and long enough term duty, you should almost have no negative side effect for been banished or breaking allegiance.

A nation is large group of families. A family is a large group of people that acts as their own nation. They have nothing to do with other family [...]

There is no defined head/referent : I mean one will appears as simple membership in another one family tree. Since most of faction's lords are indirectly inter-connected, we must restrict "family" npc to only those mentionned in his info sheet, but we cannot claim they are not related.