Two weapon fightin? (dual wielding)

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rapier17 said:
kabogh said:
Though, I'm kind of disappointed that this debate is sterile with no true satisfying conclusion that clearly states that one thing's better and more fun than the other, but well I guess that after 10 years of arguing and debating, it was bound to be like this.
I would say* that the "No" group consistently maintained the upperhand through use of logic, evidence & practical experience of utilising the weapons, armours & martial arts of those of various eras - until the next person wandered in saying "I think dual wielding should be in M&B because 'rule of cool'/ninjas/samurai (Musashi)/vikings/<insert popular media/culture reference>" and we started all over again. It's been that way since I first started posting in this thread a long old time ago - page 233 to be precise. As a fun quote from that time;

Meh, the no group almost solely focus on realism and historical accuracy while the yes group is all about samurais/ninjas/vikings. But I saw none of the sides debate about gameplay and playability. Though, I did see some posts questioning the possibility of even including it in the game as it seems quite complicated; turns out it is possible enough that very early versions prior to the original mount&blade release did have dual wielding. However, armagan removed it because it caused issues iirc. So even there it was kinda not really satisfying.
 
There WERE historical examples of dual wielding, as far as I can recall. For example accounts of axe and sword wielding in Scotland I'm pretty sure?
 
I believe this is Italian sword fighting during the Renaissance:

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Give me one action RPG that implements dual wielding (other than guns) in a proper and fun way because I haven't seen any. Implementing dual wielding in video game is just more trouble than its worth.
 
TheVideoGameInn said:
There WERE historical examples of dual wielding, as far as I can recall.
That has never been disputed, only that at the time period Mount&Blade's Calradia was set, being based off of medieval Europe, dual-wielding weapons was not, so far as we know, used upon the battlefield as a primary means of arming oneself, or even a secondary means. The main examples we have of dual-wielding occur in later periods (Renaissance & Early Modern Europe) in civilian settings, such as the use of rapier & dagger, rapier & cloak, rapier & rapier etc., in the streets of European towns & cities.
 
Taking two axes as the primary means of arming oneself into the crush and press of melee would lead to a very dead man with two axes. Shield & spear, shield & axe, shield & seax, shield & sword - those were the options for anyone who wanted to live longer than 30 seconds in the meeting of shield walls.

VonTwat said:
And how the hell is this topic still alive? :lol:
If it wasn't here someone would feel the need to make a new one. Better the devil you know, etc. :wink:
 
Why would dual wielding have to be historically accurate for it to be added to MB? We're playing in a fantasy world, the developers could do whatever they'd like.

That aside, the only dual wielding I'd like to see is the rapier/dagger combo.
 
Bobtheheros said:
That's a **** tier argument,  why don't you add light sabers and Cthulhu while you're at it,  it's a fantasy world, after all.
I don't know which is worse, but sincerely, I think that counter argument is weak as hell.

Firstly, the definition of fantasy world doesn't mean that everything can be realistic or unrealistic, but that it obeys a certain set of parameters which differ from real life yet relatively still follow some principles and laws which comes from the real world depending on the fantasy world that is in question. Since Calradia is closer to reality than pure a fantasy world common to many rpgs and that the fantastic elements are minor differences like close different cultures, different weather, terrain type and temperatures depending for each faction, etc. well a little creativity has been allowed to express the uniqueness of the combat system. There were few, isolated incidences of dual wielding in the battlefield, so I don't think it's illogical to think that it would still respect the set parameters of the fantasy world of Calradia to add dual wielding, even if it must be limited to dagger and sword. Therefore, while you imply that dual wielding is highly fantastic, it is more semi fantastic and it could very well, albeit unlikely, fit in the mount&blade semi fantastic combat system.

Secondly, you mention elements that are even more unlikely to appear in Calradia because they follow the rules of different fantasy worlds which are incompatible with each other as well as with Calradia. The light saber comes from a science fiction fantasy one which requires A) Jedi/Sith powers to make and B) Superior technology, none of which adhere to the medieval and devoid of magic world that is the game, in fact, even in futuristic version it would still be impossible for lightsabers to appear since one of the parameters is not respected. I don't think I need to explain why Cthulhu doesn't respect the parameters of Calradia. I believe at this point you understand the purpose of this paragraph and need no more examples. I'm not even mentioning here that we're debating about weapons and that talking about a deity in such a debate is like talking about Cthulhu in debate about whether tomatoes are fruits or vegetables.  :lol:

Finally, the argument you used can be used against you in this manner: Indeed let's opt for realism, so while we're at it let's add the human aging process so that your character eventually die of old age or of the diseases that comes with it. While we're at it why not add realistic financial, combat, health and politic mechanics? If you get an arrow in the shield bearing arm then you can no longer use a shield for the rest of the game. In the real life medieval period, money wasn't that common, so let's go with that make more that half of the weapons and armours too costly even for the common lord! If you get killed in battle, well too bad but you cannot play anymore with this character, you will have to start a new game from scratch! etc. So here you are, ****ty arguments just like you love them.



 
Dual wielding in the context of battles is higly fantastic, and battles is what MnB is all about, the devs try to stick to a certain age appropritate equipement and even factions, having some dual wielding stuff from the 16th going up would come out of nowhere. Admitedly you can have some nonsense in the game already, such as having a character wear plate armor, ride an arabian horse, use a mongol bow and fight with a viking sword, but that's no reason to allow even more nonsense in the game.


The game doesn't last long enough to go through an aging mechanic, unless you start with someone at death door, which would be pretty much the fault of the player at this, should this mechanic be introduced, as for wounds, that's what's armor's for, and having a shield, for that matter. AS for cost, pledge yourself to some guy with money. I'd totally try and squire for King Harlaus in exchange for better equipement, for example. I can live with having only 1 life, just gotta be careful.

 
Lets just make dual wielding happen, I know it's not logical but why not man dual wielding is cool, I know you guys want to, stop fighting the creative side of your brain, let it happen man
 
well im playing as a duellist so i have a jelkalan mastercraft estoc renamed with morghs as rapier and a duelling dagger and i challenge people to well duel

im playing a new dawn btw
 
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