Author Topic: Is Mythology the turth disguised as a Tale? or a Tale to disguise a Turth?  (Read 301232 times)

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ancalimon

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Re: Is Mythology the turth disguised as a Tale? or a Tale to disguise a Turth?
« Reply #3720 on: October 31, 2012, 01:02:14 AM »
If the word shire brings meadows, green fields and green hills to the mind of Tolkien, that etymology must be missing something.
The word shire means a piece of land, and any kind of it, not just grassy hills. I'm sure if the Shire had been bigger, Tolkien would have named it Country.

Let's stop for a moment now to congratulate you on taking Tolkien amongst your sources. He really fits in well.


Even if he did so, you are fully aware that:

country < konturöy

Kon: settle
Tur: laws, culture, agriculture, ...
Öy: place, country, state

or

Khagan darı~tōŕu~...

darı:  millet
dara: to scatter
dal (tas~tar): outer side
der: to collect, to gather
dar: narrow, a place with specified boundaries
dire: support, pole
töŕ: 1 foundation, root 2 origin, ancestors
töre-: to be born, originate
tōŕ: dust, earth, land
tȫr: honorary place in the house, country, earth (this is from where the word throne comes from)
« Last Edit: October 31, 2012, 01:57:21 AM by ancalimon »

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Re: Is Mythology the turth disguised as a Tale? or a Tale to disguise a Turth?
« Reply #3721 on: October 31, 2012, 09:08:43 AM »
No.

NikeBG

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Re: Is Mythology the turth disguised as a Tale? or a Tale to disguise a Turth?
« Reply #3722 on: October 31, 2012, 09:09:31 AM »
darı:  millet
What does millet mean? ;)

All these are just words. They don't show anything.

matmohair1

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« Last Edit: October 31, 2012, 10:00:09 AM by matmohair1 »

NikeBG

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Re: Is Mythology the turth disguised as a Tale? or a Tale to disguise a Turth?
« Reply #3724 on: October 31, 2012, 12:30:19 PM »
No, not that millet - the Turkish millet. I want ancalimon's explanation for why does the English millet have little to do with the Turkish one. :P

All these are just words. They don't show anything.

Gr0vZ

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Re: Is Mythology the turth disguised as a Tale? or a Tale to disguise a Turth?
« Reply #3725 on: October 31, 2012, 01:22:10 PM »
Dear ancalimon,

I found a song, and I get the impression that the lyrics are in turkish. Since you're so good at it, would you be so kind to translate the lyrics for us all?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z4m4lnjxkY

With my deepest sympathy.

ancalimon

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Re: Is Mythology the turth disguised as a Tale? or a Tale to disguise a Turth?
« Reply #3726 on: October 31, 2012, 04:28:52 PM »
No, not that millet - the Turkish millet. I want ancalimon's explanation for why does the English millet have little to do with the Turkish one. :P

millet roughly means nation in Turkish and it's an Arabic borrowing. During Ottoman times it meant semi-autonomous religious community based of choosing. (meaning I could have been a Muslim but if I didn't want to be a soldier, I could choose to belong with Christian community.

Originally it comes from ancient Egyptian "M" wrongly assumed as "MU". In fact it's not MU. The vowel should be at the beginning of the word but I'm not sure what it should be.

The English word millet might be related with the word "mile" which is related with Turkic "bin ~ min" meaning "thousand".  Or more probably related with bele meaning to mix together, to roll over.  (millet<bellet)  (let is a Turkic suffix. It entered English in the form of LET as in LET IT BE)

the mile part of the word mile-stone is a combination of two Turkic words.  bele (explained above) and bile (whet, hone, grind)
« Last Edit: October 31, 2012, 04:52:45 PM by ancalimon »

Amman de Stazia

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Re: Is Mythology the turth disguised as a Tale? or a Tale to disguise a Turth?
« Reply #3727 on: October 31, 2012, 04:39:29 PM »
It's not, you know:  The word is one that was recovered from the Arabs, after they 'borrowed' it from proto-turkic, which is the original language and culture.
http://forums.taleworlds.net/index.php/topic,12250.msg208344.html#msg208344

Family IS more important than Mount and Blade. 

Family D'Stazia.  (A, K and S )

PS - this line plugs TPW - The Peninsular War mod.http://forums.taleworlds.net/index.php/topic,42454.0.html

Bromden

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Re: Is Mythology the turth disguised as a Tale? or a Tale to disguise a Turth?
« Reply #3728 on: October 31, 2012, 04:53:56 PM »
The English word millet might be related with the word "mile" which is related with Turkic "bin ~ min" meaning "thousand".
And a mile is a thousand what in english?
Brombem, i see you are stubborn like a goat!!!
Answer the questions bromen.

Amman de Stazia

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Re: Is Mythology the turth disguised as a Tale? or a Tale to disguise a Turth?
« Reply #3729 on: October 31, 2012, 04:58:18 PM »
1 mile is equal to one thousand Turkic Paces, which are approximately 1.6metres each, on account of the Turkic peoples being so swaggering and athletic.
Hence the proof, if it was ever needed, that Everything Descends from Turk.
http://forums.taleworlds.net/index.php/topic,12250.msg208344.html#msg208344

Family IS more important than Mount and Blade. 

Family D'Stazia.  (A, K and S )

PS - this line plugs TPW - The Peninsular War mod.http://forums.taleworlds.net/index.php/topic,42454.0.html

Ule

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Re: Is Mythology the turth disguised as a Tale? or a Tale to disguise a Turth?
« Reply #3730 on: October 31, 2012, 06:36:35 PM »
Even if he did so, you are fully aware that:

country < konturöy

Kon: settle
Tur: laws, culture, agriculture, ...
Öy: place, country, state

or

Khagan darı~tōŕu~...

darı:  millet
dara: to scatter
dal (tas~tar): outer side
der: to collect, to gather
dar: narrow, a place with specified boundaries
dire: support, pole
töŕ: 1 foundation, root 2 origin, ancestors
töre-: to be born, originate
tōŕ: dust, earth, land
tȫr: honorary place in the house, country, earth (this is from where the word throne comes from)


haha what the ****??!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA thankyou for a good laugh, its wet and dark here and this made me laugh..

what youve done here is write out  a list of turkish (or turkish that you made up) and explained it in english.. how the **** does that show any link?! any ******** link what so ******** ever???!

sadly my bullshit filter didnt catch it this time
But my deduction to all these problems is much more believable.


Or maybe your Turk boner is speaking instead of you again.

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Re: Is Mythology the turth disguised as a Tale? or a Tale to disguise a Turth?
« Reply #3731 on: October 31, 2012, 08:20:22 PM »
let is a Turkic suffix. It entered English in the form of LET as in LET IT BE
English "let" comes from Old English "lǣtan", which derives from Proto-Germanic "lētanan" (with the same semantics as the modern "let"), which is also the root of words with the same meaning in many other germanic languages, ie old and middle high german "lâʒen" which became "lassen" in modern german or swedish "låta".

So in no way "let" "entered English". If you really wanted to argue that way, your suffix would have had to "enter Proto-Germanic", if anything.

Problem is, the turkish suffix let has absolutely nothing to do with the semantics of "lētanan". Here are some random turkish words using the suffix (a great deal being borrowed words): alet; jilet; palet; bilet; atlet; ileti; iletim; millet; devlet; tablet; adalet. They are in no way semantically related with "lētanan" (not even with each other). Besides, it's rather senseless that a rather senseless suffix should turn into a verb in some other language. Why would someone take a foreign meaningless suffix and use it for something that is a very basic conecpt that was surely expressed before any foreign suffix was encountered? That makes no sense at all. Languages do not evolve like that.
 

ancalimon

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Re: Is Mythology the turth disguised as a Tale? or a Tale to disguise a Turth?
« Reply #3732 on: October 31, 2012, 08:38:11 PM »
let is a Turkic suffix. It entered English in the form of LET as in LET IT BE
English "let" comes from Old English "lǣtan", which derives from Proto-Germanic "lētanan" (with the same semantics as the modern "let"), which is also the root of words with the same meaning in many other germanic languages, ie old and middle high german "lâʒen" which became "lassen" in modern german or swedish "låta".

So in no way "let" "entered English". If you really wanted to argue that way, your suffix would have had to "enter Proto-Germanic", if anything.

Problem is, the turkish suffix let has absolutely nothing to do with the semantics of "lētanan". Here are some random turkish words using the suffix (a great deal being borrowed words): alet; jilet; palet; bilet; atlet; ileti; iletim; millet; devlet; tablet; adalet. They are in no way semantically related with "lētanan" (not even with each other). Besides, it's rather senseless that a rather senseless suffix should turn into a verb in some other language. Why would someone take a foreign meaningless suffix and use it for something that is a very basic conecpt that was surely expressed before any foreign suffix was encountered? That makes no sense at all. Languages do not evolve like that.
 

wrong list..  Also there are some words like "ileti" there in which there is no let suffix. The root of that word for example is "il" and the suffix is "et".

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Re: Is Mythology the turth disguised as a Tale? or a Tale to disguise a Turth?
« Reply #3733 on: October 31, 2012, 10:06:30 PM »
Wrong answer. I just accidentally copied ileti/iletim from another list when i copied the others. Sorry for that.
But that's not the point of my post. Re-read it please, than answer without trying to get away cheaply.

Gr0vZ

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Re: Is Mythology the turth disguised as a Tale? or a Tale to disguise a Turth?
« Reply #3734 on: October 31, 2012, 11:31:46 PM »
These words aren't Turkish origin. :shock:

atlet Gr. αθλητής (athletes)

Gr: greek

Tsk. Tsk. Such a faux pas.